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Old November 15th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
But is that a problem? I really don't see the need for everyone to stick resolutely to the right (or left, depending where you are) lane of a road that has three or more. As long as people in the middle lane(s) are moving faster than those in the lane(s) to the slow side of the road from them, and as long as the passing lane is kept free for that purpose. Yes, if it's the law where you are, do it that way, but I really don't see that it's intrinisically better.
It most certainly is a problem, as behaviour doesn't automatically change when you find yourself on a 2-lane road - you blissfully cruise in lane 2 when lane 1 is quite empty - 'well I'm still faster than what lane 1 would be and I'll pass that tiny dot in front probably in 2 minutes anyway. I've always done that one a 3-lane road so meh'. That IS lazy and selfish. My point is it's always good to get into a good habit.
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Old November 15th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #102
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Personally, I have no difficulty telling whether I'm in the left lane or not and staying out of it....
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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I don't live in the EU.
(Thank God.)
But Poland is in the EU
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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:16 PM   #104
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??

I don't live in Poland, either. Never been there. (All my ancestors did, up to like a century or so ago...)
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Old November 15th, 2012, 11:37 PM   #105
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Go there and rent a car and drive around Poland
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Old November 16th, 2012, 12:17 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
They only have to go back one lane. If that's too difficult for them it's better they stay at home.
I'm talking about motorways with 2×4 or more lanes. I agree it's better to at least try to go back to the rightmost lane on a 2×3-lane motorway, especially if you're rather slow, but everyone thronging on the rightmost lane on a 2×10-lane motorway is nerdy and outright dangerous. I think what really bothers you (and me) are people constantly driving 100 km/h in the middle lane when there aren't many trucks (which aren't much slower anyway).
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Old November 16th, 2012, 02:23 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
To be fair in that picture the density of lorries on both sides probably warrants anything faster to stay in lane 2. On the LHS of the picture we don't know if there isn't a lorry just out of shot.

The positions of the black and yellow cars on the right (the blakc MPV and the saxo you are talking about?) are a bit perplexing though.
I don't agree, there is at least 96 meters of empty space in front of that truck (visible on picture), the red clio should have gone right after passing the truck, like the dark car is doing... Why is it suddently okay because it's not a 2 lane motorway ? The exact same rules apply on 4 or 5 lane motorways as on 2 lane ones ( per dir).

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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
I think on such wide motorways it's better to stay in your lane, so there isn't too much weaving and traffic flows smoothly (but for god's sake, keep the leftmost lane free).
What is wrong with weaving ?

What is happening now is that when there is more traffic, the behaviour is even worse, you have 2 or 3 lanes of cars on each other bumpers, with the same mahoosive un-used gaps on the right lane, I can literally overtake trains of 30+ cars sometimes on the most right line because people are too lazy (here anyhow, I understand that the culture in the US towards this is different, here it's nothing more than laziness and total disrespect for the progress for anyone stuck behind you imho, because to pass you, he has to commit an offense) to bugger off and not block the left overtaking lanes.
Quote:
but I really don't see that it's intrinisically better.
The road capacity is under-used... Around rush hour times ( but not IN rush hour) you see situations, even on 2x3 lane motorways, where there are say 10 cars in the middle and left lane and just 3-4 in the right one, in the same amount of motorway space... This causes the speed to drop on the left lanes, and causes time loss for anyone who wants to go faster. That is my problem, in these situations all 3 lanes are doing pretty much the same speed ( or just +-5km), but the right lane is under-used. If more people would bugger off to the right, the most left lane would probably be able to drive 10-20km/h quicker. You can actually usually drive faster in the most right lane and that is not how it's meant to be...
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post

And calling those who are respecting the custom of the people around them rather than yours "lazy" is arrogant and offensive.
It's offensive they are holding up faster traffic(&breaking the law imho. I always move to the right when I can and I don't see a problem changing lane 2-3x per minute, even when I drive slow I can't stand the thought of holding people up unnecessarily...


I would be entirely cool with this type of behaviour if I could overtake on the right, but when I do I risk a quite heavy fine...

Quote:
here's always some ******* with LED headlights tailgating you when you have to overtake a small train of trucks.
To show you the other side of the story, here you are cruising @ 230 km/h... Then some ******* with some tiny city tin can or tractor (diesel) van pulls out in front of you and you have to slam on your anchor and nearly half your speed... . I know how it is though, I once had to drive an Aygo on the Autobahn, I hated it, I floored it and the thing wouldn't go faster than my own car does at 1/5th throttle... Not to mention the ride quality and overall comfort.

Last edited by snowdog; November 16th, 2012 at 02:37 AM.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 04:11 AM   #108
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What is wrong with weaving ?
It's uncomfortable and dangerous.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 10:50 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
I don't agree, there is at least 96 meters of empty space in front of that truck (visible on picture), the red clio should have gone right after passing the truck, like the dark car is doing... Why is it suddently okay because it's not a 2 lane motorway ? The exact same rules apply on 4 or 5 lane motorways as on 2 lane ones ( per dir).


What is wrong with weaving ?

What is happening now is that when there is more traffic, the behaviour is even worse, you have 2 or 3 lanes of cars on each other bumpers, with the same mahoosive un-used gaps on the right lane, I can literally overtake trains of 30+ cars sometimes on the most right line because people are too lazy (here anyhow, I understand that the culture in the US towards this is different, here it's nothing more than laziness and total disrespect for the progress for anyone stuck behind you imho, because to pass you, he has to commit an offense) to bugger off and not block the left overtaking lanes.

The road capacity is under-used... Around rush hour times ( but not IN rush hour) you see situations, even on 2x3 lane motorways, where there are say 10 cars in the middle and left lane and just 3-4 in the right one, in the same amount of motorway space... This causes the speed to drop on the left lanes, and causes time loss for anyone who wants to go faster. That is my problem, in these situations all 3 lanes are doing pretty much the same speed ( or just +-5km), but the right lane is under-used. If more people would bugger off to the right, the most left lane would probably be able to drive 10-20km/h quicker. You can actually usually drive faster in the most right lane and that is not how it's meant to be...


It's offensive they are holding up faster traffic(&breaking the law imho. I always move to the right when I can and I don't see a problem changing lane 2-3x per minute, even when I drive slow I can't stand the thought of holding people up unnecessarily...


I would be entirely cool with this type of behaviour if I could overtake on the right, but when I do I risk a quite heavy fine...


To show you the other side of the story, here you are cruising @ 230 km/h... Then some ******* with some tiny city tin can or tractor (diesel) van pulls out in front of you and you have to slam on your anchor and nearly half your speed... . I know how it is though, I once had to drive an Aygo on the Autobahn, I hated it, I floored it and the thing wouldn't go faster than my own car does at 1/5th throttle... Not to mention the ride quality and overall comfort.
As long as the cars are moving faster than the trucks, going back to the right for 100m gaps isn't going to create extra capacity, you're still limited by the number of lanes available when there is a truck in the slow lane.

I agree with you that when a faster car is approaching from behind, it is best to make way, but in rush hour on a 4-lane motorway it really is pointless to use those gaps all the time, simply because the flow of the traffic will dictate that there is no extra capacity created by it.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arriaca View Post
Spanish way of life...

[IMG]http://i47.************/1zyxaxg.jpg[/IMG]
Middle-lane hogging is an issue everywhere in Europe and Spain is no exception. I try to stick to the rightmost lane, but sometimes it's not possible as there is slow traffic in the middle lane and I can't overtake them on the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I drove in Spain last year and was amazed by the good behaviour of Spanish drivers in motorways. Inside cities I was amazed by their aggressiveness
Driving in Spanish motorways is pretty relaxed if you stay away from big metro areas. Around big cities traffic often follows absurd patterns. You may encounter a row of ten cars tailgating each other in the middle lane with room in the other two. Overtaking on the right lane is also common, as sometimes people stay on the left one for no reason.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:19 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
But is that a problem? I really don't see the need for everyone to stick resolutely to the right (or left, depending where you are) lane of a road that has three or more. As long as people in the middle lane(s) are moving faster than those in the lane(s) to the slow side of the road from them, and as long as the passing lane is kept free for that purpose. Yes, if it's the law where you are, do it that way, but I really don't see that it's intrinisically better.
By hogging in lane 2 you force everyone who is faster than you to change from lane 1 to 3 and back again to perform an overtaking manoeuvre. This increases the number of lane changes and all the hassle which it involves for no good reason.
It simply isn't just enough to leave one alibi lane open to your left. You are assuming this way that only one car at a time is passing you. This, however, is not always the case.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
Go there and rent a car and drive around Poland
Is there any particular issue with Poland? I know many drivers here did not experience driving on motorways until recent days, however, as a person who drove here and there, I may say it's not so bad on Polish multi-lane dual carriageway roads if it comes to the lane discipline. Yes, it's still long way to come close to Belgians or French, but we went far ahead of Austrians or British.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 11:57 PM   #113
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Is there any particular issue with Poland? I know many drivers here did not experience driving on motorways until recent days, however, as a person who drove here and there, I may say it's not so bad on Polish multi-lane dual carriageway roads if it comes to the lane discipline. Yes, it's still long way to come close to Belgians or French, but we went far ahead of Austrians or British.
No, he's of Polish descent, so I'm telling him to visit Poland
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Old November 17th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #114
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How is that pertinent to the issue at hand?
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Old November 17th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #115
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To get a European driving experience, and you might as well do it in Poland
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Old November 17th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
It's uncomfortable and dangerous.



You're supposed to check your mirrors every couple of seconds anyhow.

So what, moving your steering wheel while driving is uncomfortable & dangerous ?
Staying in lane encourages lazy driving, just being a sheep looking at the car in front and nothing else instead of constantly assessing the traffic situation and staying active...
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Old November 17th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #117
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With 130 km/h I most certainly won't keep going back to the rightmost lane on a 2×4-lane motorway, that's my point. It really depends on your speed where you'll drive on such a wide motorway, not just whether you're overtaking anyone at this very moment.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 09:45 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
With 130 km/h I most certainly won't keep going back to the rightmost lane on a 2×4-lane motorway, that's my point. It really depends on your speed where you'll drive on such a wide motorway, not just whether you're overtaking anyone at this very moment.
Yes you must go to the right most lane at all times. You are a nuisance if you don't. All other lanes are for overtaking only.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #119
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^ Sarcasm?
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Old November 17th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #120
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Absolutely not.
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