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Old June 17th, 2015, 08:50 AM   #2021
ren0312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jam5 View Post
Lest there's any doubt as to Boeing's ambition that the new 777X will replace the venerable 747 as the new long-haul passenger flagship:

Massive Construction Underpins 777X plan

Jun 15, 2015
ShowNews
How wide will the new seats for the 777x be assuming 10 across? How many can it accomodate with 31 inch seat pitch in economy class and 2-3-2 business class seating, with no premium economy?
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Old June 17th, 2015, 05:33 PM   #2022
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EVA Air B777-36NER (B-16722); newest Hello Kitty jet!



Biman Bangladesh B777-266ER (S2-AHK)
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Old June 18th, 2015, 08:56 AM   #2023
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Now there is an interesting news come from Singapore Airlines. After the demise of SQ21 flight, and withdrawal of Airbus A340-500 from their fleet, now they suddenly wants to reinstate the non-stop Singapore-US service.
I know that they had operated the Airbus A340-500 before and the discontinuation of such service indicate that Singapore Airlines were probably not satisfied with the economic performance of the type.
Now, considering that SQ is "impatient" would that mean that they will order Boeing 777-200LR soon?
I remember when Boeing 777-200LR was introduced in 2005, Singapore did actually interested with the type. But due to dubious economic feasibility of non-stop Singapore US, they were hesitant to order the type.
Now, after the discontinuation of SQ21 flight and withdrawal of Airbus A340-500, they want to reinstate non-stop Singapore to US flight "immediately".
Would this mean that SQ will eventually order Boeing 777-200LR?

Quote:
Singapore Air Wants to Bring Back Nonstop Flight to U.S.
Bloomberg By Kyunghee Park

Singapore Airlines Ltd. is impatient to restore nonstop flights to the U.S.

The airline is in talks with Airbus Group SE and Boeing Co. on developing a plane with new technology that would allow it to fly nonstop to the U.S. profitably, Singapore Air Chief Executive Officer Goh Choon Phong said. In 2013, the carrier stopped the 19-hour trip from Singapore to New York, adding about five more hours to travel between the cities.

“We, of course, want it as soon as possible,” Goh said in an interview with Bloomberg Television’s Haslinda Amin. “There isn’t really a commercially viable aircraft that could fly nonstop.”

Reviving nonstop flights to the U.S. will help the carrier fill a gap in its network that’s benefiting Asia-Pacific rivals Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. and Qantas Airways Ltd. The all-business-class daily flights from Singapore to Los Angeles and Newark, New Jersey, ended as the routes were not profitable with aircraft that flew with four engines, analysts said.

“It’s really a question of economics,” said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst at Fairfax, Virginia-based aerospace consultant Teal Group. “The last generation of very long-range jets, particularly the A340-500, was simply not efficient, which is what killed Singapore’s Newark service.”

The carrier stopped the service using a four-engine, 100-seat Airbus A340-500 in November 2013 after ending flights to Los Angeles from the city-state a month earlier. Using an aircraft with two engines would be more economical than one with four because it’s designed for efficient long-range flights, Aboulafia said.

Singapore Air shares gained 0.7 percent to S$10.63 as of 11 a.m. in the city.
Double Engines

The Newark service was about 16,700 kilometers long, while the Los Angeles flight was more than 14,000 kilometers.

Airbus and Boeing both offer planes with twin engines. Airbus’s A350, which entered commercial service in January with Qatar Airways, can travel up to 8,200 nautical miles (15,100 kilometers) non stop.

Boeing’s 777-200LRs can fly 8,625 nautical miles. The 777X, an upgraded model that the U.S. company is pushing to be the No. 1 choice among large wide-body jetliners, will be designed to fly more than 9,300 nautical miles, according to its website. The 777X isn’t in operation yet.

Qantas’s flight from Sydney to Dallas Fort Worth, a journey of about 13,800 kilometers, using an Airbus A380 superjumbo, is the current longest nonstop commercial route by distance. Qantas replaced the Boeing 747 jumbo for that route starting September 2014.
Fifth Freedom

The Singapore carrier currently flies to four U.S. cities - - Los Angeles and San Francisco via Hong Kong, Seoul and Tokyo; and New York via Frankfurt and Houston with a stop in Moscow. Singapore Air flies A380s and Boeing 777s to the U.S.

Cathay has services to five U.S. cities, including direct flights to San Francisco.

Goh didn’t identify the U.S. cities for direct flights by Singapore Air in future.

“There is lack of viable intermediate points,” Goh said. “That’s largely because the countries concerned are not really giving us the rights to operate what we call the fifth freedom from those points to the U.S.”

The fifth freedom right in aviation allows an airline to fly between two foreign countries on a flight originating from or ending in its own country.

Singapore Air is looking for ways to address these issues. One of them is increasing its partnership with other airlines, including Air New Zealand Ltd. and Virgin Australia Holdings Ltd., to offer more destinations.

The airline also plans to develop hubs outside Singapore to give it a broader network connectivity. It has a carrier with Tata Sons Ltd. in India and a budget venture in Thailand.

“We’re among the earlier adopters of new technology,” Goh said. “That certainly puts us in a very good position to compete and also to take advantage of those technology to serve new points.”

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/singap...210000825.html
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Old June 18th, 2015, 04:57 PM   #2024
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Boeing released the weekly totals revealing that the Qatar order is completely new, both the 10 777-8X and 4 777F.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/ind...ers-deliveries


That leaves Etihad as the most likely candidate for last weeks 777X top-up order.


The current year to date total for the 777 classic orders = 29. Almost halfway compared to last years total of 63.
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Old June 19th, 2015, 10:00 AM   #2025
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Delivered today to Garuda Indonesia

PK-GIH Garuda Indonesia Boeing 777-300 - C/N 29144 / LN 1305 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
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Old June 20th, 2015, 08:06 AM   #2026
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That plane is the first of Garuda's Boeing 777-300ER who feature two classes (no First Class). They said that the plane will be optimized for Japan and Saudi Arabian route. I think the two class Boeing 777 will probably be used for Australian route too.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 08:09 AM   #2027
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Here's my thought on SQ resuming nonstop services to the U.S.:

If it is serious in doing it again, it may need to get the B777-200LR or get more B777-300ERs so that it can fly nonstop to:

- Los Angeles
- San Francisco
- Newark or New York/JFK

It would be better, however, for the airline to fly nonstop first to the U.S. West Coast to see if a nonstop SIN-EWR service is feasible once more on a 77L. It can follow the footsteps of Emirates where it uses the 77W and A380 to fly nonstop between Dubai and the Americas... If not TK.

And by the way, what's the range of SQ's 77Ws at the moment, and how much more fuel will those have left if those fly nonstop to either LAX or SFO?
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Old June 20th, 2015, 09:31 PM   #2028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Here's my thought on SQ resuming nonstop services to the U.S.:

If it is serious in doing it again, it may need to get the B777-200LR or get more B777-300ERs so that it can fly nonstop to:

- Los Angeles
- San Francisco
- Newark or New York/JFK

It would be better, however, for the airline to fly nonstop first to the U.S. West Coast to see if a nonstop SIN-EWR service is feasible once more on a 77L. It can follow the footsteps of Emirates where it uses the 77W and A380 to fly nonstop between Dubai and the Americas... If not TK.

And by the way, what's the range of SQ's 77Ws at the moment, and how much more fuel will those have left if those fly nonstop to either LAX or SFO?
As per the article above,
Singapore-Newark: 16,700 km
Singapore-Los Angeles: more than 14,000 km

As per Wikipedia, maximum range (with maximum payload)
777-200LR: 9,395 nmi (17,395 km, 10,811 mi)
777-300ER: 7,825 nmi (14,490 km, 9,005 mi)

I noticed that when Thai Airways was still flying non-stop to US, I was very surprised that the Bangkok-Los Angeles was about 1h longer than Bangkok-New York. That is the results of strong winds over the Pacific (Bangkok - New York is less affected as its path is way more north than Bangkok - Los Angeles). SQ is facing the same problem I believe. My point is that you cannot just look at the distance and the maximum range in this case, there are other factors at play.

Of the existing planes, I think only the 777-200LR and the a340-500 can fly these routes non-stop. So if SQ wants those routes back very soon, they will have to order the 777-200LR. But since the article is talking about developing a new technology, they will probably order the 777-8 or push Airbus to launch an extended range version of the a350-900.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 10:02 PM   #2029
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I would then look into the 77L if it is serious in reviving the Singapore-US nonstop service since with two less engines to use, it will save some valuable fuel. Not to mention, if successful, it can bring back a 2-class configuration on board (Business and Economy Plus), if not a 3-class version (add Economy), allowing more passengers to board.

And by the way, is Singapore-SFO nonstop a similar distance as Singapore-LAX?
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Old June 20th, 2015, 10:31 PM   #2030
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Singapore Airlines clearly mentioned that the current planes can't do this non-stop routes profitable.

The 777-8 might already be a step forward in making ultra long range more profitable, but it might be turned more into an aircraft for long range hot and heavy operations instead of ultra long haul.

Developing a new ultra long haul from a smaller platform might be more successful, the already mentioned A350 and of course from the 787 which should get re-engined before the A350m (just based on program maturity).

But we should look more at the engine manufactures then at Airbus and Boeing. It's their innovations that are needed to make planes more efficient. If they reach a point where they can't cut any more percentages in efficiency it will be impossible for Airbus and Boeing to improve their planes in a conventional way. But that could also be a blessing for ultra long haul operations as it could accelerate a radical change in aircraft design. It might be needed to develop a true plane of the future, new shapes, space operations, to really take the next step. These are developments that will cost a lot of money to develop and to introduce into commercial service. As long as the engine manufactures are able to continue to develop new better conventional engines the current standard aircraft design will remain pretty much the same.

Something which is also the reason why a 777X or a A330neo works, even when there are also technologically superior planes on the market already.

Anyway, I don't see Singapore Airlines the direct US routes anytime soon. The earliest option could even be the A380neo if it's launched.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 10:58 PM   #2031
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That's what I what I was thinking, we're stuck with the 777's, and 350's that we totally forgot what a possible A380NEO stretch might be able to do.

Obviously the NEO would have more fuel efficient engines, up dated tweaks for less drag, sharklets that could add additional range, and extra fuel tanks in the belly.

If Singapore were to put as many first, and business class seats on this air frame then there would be even more space for additional cargo.

The whole top floor could be business, and the front of the bottom floor could have first, and the rest could be Y seating, or premium economy.

Second only the SJ can provide space, and comfort on a ultra ultra long flight.
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Old June 20th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #2032
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Long range, hot and heavy flights... I know JNB and MEX are classic examples of high-altitude airports that require longer runways for takeoff. But, tell me more about this concept, please?
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Old June 21st, 2015, 12:11 PM   #2033
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It's Hot and High btw, not Hot and Heavy like I wrote earlier.

It's pretty simple, the air less dense in those airports reducing the lift created by the wings. There for you need more thrust from the engines to take off. This extra thrust means a higher fuel consumption, reducing the range of a plane. This is often compensated by reducing the weight of the plane, decrease the number of passengers and/or cargo. Making it harder to make flight profitable, as less money is coming in while the fuel consumption stays the same.

The extra fuel capacity of the ultra long range aircraft, like the 777-200LR make it possible for flight from Hot and High airports to still reach a long distance destination without weight penalties. But the fuel consumption is still higher then normal, making it still challenging to make a profit on such flight (together will increased costs because the need for extra staff and passenger amenities, like an extra full meal.

My remark about the 777-8 more being targeted at Hot & High performances, instead of ultra long haul performance ULH has to do with engine specifics. Hot & High operations need more thrust, more thrust generally means a higher weight. A higher weight reduces the range of a plane. As the ME3, the only customers so far of the 777-8, which operate from hot airports get to decide the final specifications of the engines for the 777-8 they might go for the hot & heavy performance specifications instead of the ULH performance specifications.
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Old June 21st, 2015, 01:35 PM   #2034
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Another angle of EVA Air B777-36NER (B-16722)



Malaysia Airlines B777-2H6ER (9M-MRQ)
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Old June 21st, 2015, 05:31 PM   #2035
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How many Malaysia Airlines' Boeing 777 left in their fleet? And do they have plan to introduce -300ER in their fleet in the near future?
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Old June 21st, 2015, 08:33 PM   #2036
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Some lease placement news.


Philippine Airlines leases 2 777-300ERs from Intrepid Aviation for delivery in 2016.

http://intrepidaviation.com/uploads/...%29_061715.pdf


This is the 1st placement of the order for 6 777-300ER which Intrepid placed with Boeing last year.

This new lease deal brings the total 777-300ERs operated by Philippine Airlines to 8.

For Boeing it also means 2 more 2016 delivery slots taken up.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 01:48 AM   #2037
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Can the LR do it in it's current configuration? It seems like it may not quite have the range, at least to EWR.

But Boeing is looking at making intermediate improvements to the 77W to maintain it's viability until the Xs are available. Maybe those can be applied to the LR. Or maybe Boeing and/or GE could pull some other range extending rabbit out of their hats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
Now there is an interesting news come from Singapore Airlines. After the demise of SQ21 flight, and withdrawal of Airbus A340-500 from their fleet, now they suddenly wants to reinstate the non-stop Singapore-US service.
I know that they had operated the Airbus A340-500 before and the discontinuation of such service indicate that Singapore Airlines were probably not satisfied with the economic performance of the type.
Now, considering that SQ is "impatient" would that mean that they will order Boeing 777-200LR soon?
I remember when Boeing 777-200LR was introduced in 2005, Singapore did actually interested with the type. But due to dubious economic feasibility of non-stop Singapore US, they were hesitant to order the type.
Now, after the discontinuation of SQ21 flight and withdrawal of Airbus A340-500, they want to reinstate non-stop Singapore to US flight "immediately".
Would this mean that SQ will eventually order Boeing 777-200LR?
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:25 PM   #2038
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Male View Post
My point is that you cannot just look at the distance and the maximum range in this case, there are other factors at play.
And you have to consider the way planes reach their destinations, at the moment they can't do a straight line point to point as they should for safety reasons reducing their nominal range and other consideration as well like runway length and altitude.
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Old June 25th, 2015, 04:44 AM   #2039
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Still stunned by this livery. Can't wait to see it on the 787 and the a350.


KLM - Royal Dutch Airlines Boeing 777-306/ER | PH-BVO by Ewout Pahud de Mortanges, on Flickr
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Old June 25th, 2015, 05:57 AM   #2040
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Some B777s I've spotted at SFO over the past few days...

Air New Zealand B777-200ER, old livery (reg. ZK-OKH)


IMG_9100 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr

Air New Zealand B777-300ER, "All Black" (reg. ZK-OKQ)


IMG_8661 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr

Asiana Airlines B777-200ER (reg. HL7732)


IMG_8758 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr

Cathay Pacific B777-300ER (reg. B-KQQ)


IMG_9039 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr

Korean Air B777-200ER (reg. HL7764)


IMG_9001 by Anthony Nachor, on Flickr
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