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Old December 18th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #201
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Why don't they swap to Boeing 747-8 like Lufthansa or Korean Air?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:57 PM   #202
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For PR to switch to a B748 would be a huge investment, especially that the airline -- along with other Philippine-based carriers -- is still listed under Category 2 by the FAA in the US (for over 5 years!) and is still blacklisted by the European Union at the moment, all because of poor aviation safety regulations still being implemented in the Philippines. And that, for me, has been a huge headache for years since I would really love to see PR improve its image altogether, with better service. But for that to happen, it would need to get out of both blacklists to begin with.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #203
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There's been talk about a possible 747-8 or even A380 order for some time now, but recently the only widebodies they have ordered are A330-300s.

Philippine Airlines seems confident that they will go up an FAA category and the EU ban will be lifted soon, we could see an order for the 747-8 next year if that happens. But it's also possible that they will order more 777s, they are not that much smaller then the 747s, especially if they do a high density version for intra Asian flights.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:22 PM   #204
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True. I can confirm that story through Philippine Airlines and Philippine media outlets. I foresee though that PR could get more B77Ws in the process, if not B748s, since the airline wants to serve even more destinations with large overseas Filipino populations, especially to Europe where KLM is the only airline doing direct service to Manila.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #205
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KLM used to fly directly to Manilla, but since this earlier year it hs become a Amsterdam - Taipei - Manilla flight. But it's still the only European airline that is serving the Philippines. Although they use the KLM Asia 777s for these flights and legally KLM Asia is a company based in Taiwan. But the Taipei - Manilla leg could easily be a regular KLM flight again since that's not an issue with China.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:56 PM   #206
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Exactly. And there were a lot more European flights that served MNL 10 or 15 years back than today, thanks to various economic reasons and passenger load issues. However, with an economic growth in the Philippines, instead of waiting for BA, AF, or LH to resume services to MNL, PR will operate Manila-Europe routes with the B77Ws so that the planes can be better utilized, and thus increasing revenue for the airline.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 03:10 PM   #207
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Why no German carriers operate Boeing 777? And why there are very little German registered Boeing 777 around?
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Old December 19th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
Why no German carriers operate Boeing 777? And why there are very little German registered Boeing 777 around?
Well, LH has chosen the B747 for its long-haul routes, and it has preferred the A330 and A340 families too since many of its airframes were manufactured in Germany, thus less costs to ship and maintain the aircraft. Same goes with airberlin which prefers the A330s.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #209
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Lufthansa owns around 50 A340s today, but overall, ordered 59 of the type.
It was actually the launch customer with AF but also the biggest operator, and it still must be today.
So even if, these last decade, they've probably been thinking it was a mistake to rely so much on this type (777 is more efficient), they couldn't really order the 777 as it wouldn't make sense with a fleet standardization.
The political factor comes to my mind aswell, Airbus being European, the pressure on european carriers must of been strong.

That's my view for Lufthansa.

But with the new generation aircrafts (787 and A350 (Maybe 777X?)), Lufthansa will have to replace these a340s and I'm surprised it's not done yet.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:07 PM   #210
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So there are no airlines other than Lufthansa in Germany who operated Boeing 777?
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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
So there are no airlines other than Lufthansa in Germany who operated Boeing 777?
LH has never operated a B777 on its passenger division (I don't know if it does on the cargo division)... and I think it's with the A330 and A340 that made LH as a launch customer that solidified its stance with Airbus over Boeing.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #212
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I said "other than Lufthansa".

*doh*
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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
I said "other than Lufthansa".

*doh*
No other German carrier.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #214
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After thorough searching, apparently YES there is one German (cargo) airline that operates Boeing 777. In fact, their first Boeing 777 is the first triple seven with German registration.

The company is AeroLogic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerologic

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Old December 19th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #215
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Hmmm... very interesting. Never heard of that air cargo company. What's its registration like? Well, I'd be safe to say that B777s based in Germany is rare since the preference is with B747s, A330s and A340s.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 07:08 PM   #216
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Aerologic is a company owned by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express, so it's a company related to Lufthansa.

Lufthansa Cargo also has the 777F on order, until recently it was not clear if these planes would go to Lufthansa Cargo or Aerologic but they will be used by Lufthansa so there will be 777s in the Lufthansa colors.

Air Berlin is pretty much the only other passenger airline that could have order it, but they never did. They have 1 A330-300 in their fleet, it's their biggest plane now. They will replace it together with the A330-200s with the 787-8s they have ordered. As for other airlines, the 777 is too big for Condor that uses the 767 and all the other German passenger airlines pretty much only use narrow bodies.

There are a couple of other cargo airlines that could use it, but they don't.

All in all the low number of 777s It pretty much down to Lufthanse, they chose the A330 and the A340 over the 777-200ER and the 777-300ER.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #217
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The 777-200LR for Iraqi Airways was ordered on the spot, it was only added to the list last week.

On top of this small order an undisclosed customer made an big order for 30 777s last week.
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

But there was also a cancelation of 1 777.

After the Turkish Airlines order last week the net orders have shot up to 62 for 2012. It's going to be interesting to see if there will be any more orders in the last full week of the year. But with the 62 net order it has already turned out a decent year for the program. Even though it's not as good as 2011 with the incredible 200 net orders, but that was a very remarkable year.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #218
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I suspect the airline that made 30 additional orders would be EK since it operates a lot of B777s already that it is the largest carrier in the world operating the twin-engined wide body.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 08:45 PM   #219
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It's most likely the 2 Chinese order that where announced at the start of the year but hadn't been firmed up yet.

China Southern - 10
China Eastern - 20
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Old December 21st, 2012, 01:40 PM   #220
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News on SIA refurbishing its B777-200ER fleet.

Quote:
SIA to spend S$95m upgrading 777-200ER cabins
Posted: 21 December 2012 1754 hrs


SINGAPORE: Singapore Airlines said it will spend S$95 million refitting 10 Boeing 777-200ER aircraft with new long-haul cabin products.

The improvements include seats that fold down into full-flat beds in Business Class and larger entertainment screens for both Business and Economy.

A shift in seat layouts will allow every passenger in the Business Class direct access to the aisle.

The first refitted Boeing 777-200ER will operate between Singapore and Amsterdam from 13 January 2013. Subsequent refitted planes will fly to destinations in Europe, India, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

The refitted Boeing 200ER series will have a reduced seating capacity of 271 passengers, instead of 285 previously.

- CNA/ck
source: CNA
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