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Old December 29th, 2012, 12:33 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by cnapan View Post
I agree completely. If there's something we really could do without, it's people asking for mediocrity.

If there is to be a hindu temple (and why not), then far better that it is something which, in a hundred years - or even just 30 - people will want to preserve because they like it.

I do appreciate that such populist sentiments exclude me from the 'thinking' behind much of the built environment these days, but there we go!

I was not asking for mediocrity, there is nothing mediocre about the simpler modern designs posted above.

Some people are saying the Walkie Talkie being built in the City is too overpowering......which I actually disagree with, it actually fits in with the area.

For me this Temple is way too overpowering as it does not fit in, it looks ridiculously out of place. I think it would be fine positioned surrounded by a green landscape and not a standard naff British high street like it is.

Fair enough if you like how it fits into the area, good for you.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:19 AM   #62
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The point is it doesn't matter how it fits into the area because the area is shit. The only reason people want new buildings to 'fit' into an area is that they value the area and don't want to see it ruined. If the area isn't cherished and doesn't have much value, then why are you bringing up this crap about 'fitting in'?
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Old December 29th, 2012, 04:05 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post

How do you know in thirty or a hundred years people will want to preserve this? Are you saying none of the designs I showed will exist but this will?

If I had this sense of prediction about future architectural tastes I'd be a millionaire!
The temple will definitely be treasured 30 years from now because it's both beautiful and exotic / unique. There's a wave of fantastic new Hindu temples being built, both in India, and by Indian communities around the world. Your suggestion that it's an architecture of the past, and out of step with the times, couldn't be more wrong. India and Hindu culture will only become more powerful in the coming decades. It's a growing trend. We're just lucky that London has two excellent examples of this fabulous architectural style.
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Last edited by Langur; December 29th, 2012 at 04:15 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #64
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we are lucky in london, it's an amazing city, and these temples just make it more amazing
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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #65
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I find it tacky and of awful taste.

Then again I also find religion a very awkward ridiculous thing.

I actually dislike modern looking temples of any faith because they might give the impression that there is something more than just ignorance, fear, myths and superstitions behind religion. At the same time I do like modern looking temples of any faith because they seem to be able to express things through abstractions instead of just being superficial as this example is.

There is my internal debate.

This is just a personal opinion. Hope you will find it in you to respect it.

Thank you.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:37 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Loathing View Post
The point is it doesn't matter how it fits into the area because the area is shit. The only reason people want new buildings to 'fit' into an area is that they value the area and don't want to see it ruined. If the area isn't cherished and doesn't have much value, then why are you bringing up this crap about 'fitting in'?
Indeed.

Well let's take a look at the neighbours:

http://goo.gl/maps/EJ292

On one side you have a collection of 30s houses. What ought it to look like to 'fit in' with these? Perhaps a copy of the baptist church across the road? Seems pointless to me.

Then on the other side you've got a rather miserable parade of shops without any architectural presence at all. To fit in with those, you'd have to erect a ramshackle PVC-sign-plastered prefeb.

The presence of this temple gives this street, for the first time, a reason for people from elsewhere to bother to pay a visit, and I'm sure many of the locals will be very proud of having, for the first time, a beautiful expression of their culture to use. Those whose culture it isn't can appreciate the building as a work of art... so who loses?

The only people who lose are those who are fighting a pointless war against detail, beauty, craft and art in the built environment. People who would rather we had more of this:

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Old December 29th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
How do you know in thirty or a hundred years people will want to preserve this?
Because it looks just like all the other hindu temples that people have wanted to preserve for hundreds of years.

It's not that hard to understand is it?

Quote:
Are you saying none of the designs I showed will exist but this will?
Of course not. I like (most of) your examples. Had you bothered to read my reaction you'd know that I thought they were the exception to the rule. I've seen literally hundreds of religious buildings from the last 50 years and most of them are really very poor. Ironically, the catholic buildings are among the worst - very disappointing really, given the catholic church's rich history of using art to gild its god. (Literally, sometimes!)

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If I had this sense of prediction about future architectural tastes I'd be a millionaire!
...or at least better at understanding what makes the difference between a good and a bad built enviornment!
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Old December 29th, 2012, 03:01 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by cnapan View Post
Indeed.

Well let's take a look at the neighbours:

http://goo.gl/maps/EJ292

On one side you have a collection of 30s houses. What ought it to look like to 'fit in' with these? Perhaps a copy of the baptist church across the road? Seems pointless to me.

Then on the other side you've got a rather miserable parade of shops without any architectural presence at all. To fit in with those, you'd have to erect a ramshackle PVC-sign-plastered prefeb.

The presence of this temple gives this street, for the first time, a reason for people from elsewhere to bother to pay a visit, and I'm sure many of the locals will be very proud of having, for the first time, a beautiful expression of their culture to use. Those whose culture it isn't can appreciate the building as a work of art... so who loses?

The only people who lose are those who are fighting a pointless war against detail, beauty, craft and art in the built environment. People who would rather we had more of this:


I am 100% in favour of Robin Hood Gardens preservation and, in case religion has to survive, I am also in favour of it using the most tacky buildings possible. So I do not have any problem with this temple. I am not at loss. If only they could gild it in gold or place some huge inflatable elephant floating on top...


PS: Quite impressive and amazing how the building cantilevers on top of the distribution corridors like held by thin air. I am talking of course of Robin Hood Gardens.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 03:07 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #69
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Quite impressive and amazing how the building cantilevers on top of the distribution corridors like held by thin air.
...something that no doubt was an endless source of joy for the residents*

*though I do hear that some people, for some bizarre reason, just aren't impressed by a concrete corridor with a 4 foot overhang. The Shree Sanatan Hindu Mandir has snubbed such 'amazing' feats of construction and instead gone for (shudder...) art.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 04:26 PM   #70
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Is that really an endless source of joy to residents?

What a bizarre thing!

If it were I cannot see it being the intention of the authors.


PS: We are lucky here that the overhang is not "just" 4 foot but close to a more impressive 10 or 12 ft, if one cares to count. But that is not actually that important.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 04:51 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #71
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For some reason best known to myself, I'm left unmoved by 10-12 foot concrete overhangs, but I did want to know more about the construction of the temple:

According to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8709575.stm

"There is none of the metal core most buildings have and, instead, it has been built using ancient techniques based on Hindu scriptures.

The method dates back thousands of years and was used to construct the world famous Angkor Wat in Cambodia.

Many of the temple's component pieces have been hand carved in limestone in the tiny
town of Sola - located in the Indian state of Gujarat - before being flown over and pieced together in the UK."

It also says it took 16 years to construct... a true labour of love. So rare in today's world.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #72
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Menganito, you are an almost flawless specimen of the notorious homo bigotus liberal-bigotus (genus homo, species bigotus, sub-species liberal-bigotus).
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:03 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menganito View Post
Is that really an endless source of joy to residents?

What a bizarre thing!

If it were I cannot see it being the intention of the authors.
Yes, how bizarre for an architect to consider that a building should bring joy. What was I thinking?
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #74
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"16 years to construct", why am I not moved? Should that be an endless source of joy cut short? I don't know what feelings this information should provoke.

"A method that dates back thousands of years..." then like concrete, which was used by the romans.

Of course concrete has evolved and now is reinforced with modern steel alloys and uses the advances in chemistry for retardants, fluidificants and other components. You know, something that celebrates the evolution of human knowledge and science.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 06:53 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:12 PM   #75
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Menganito, you are an almost flawless specimen of the notorious homo bigotus liberal-bigotus (genus homo, species bigotus, sub-species liberal-bigotus).
Didn't you say goodbye to me in an insulting way already?

Did you just come back to pour some more insults?

Please avoid your opinions on my person. They are of no interest because of you and because I am not the issue.

Thank you.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #76
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Yes, how bizarre for an architect to consider that a building should bring joy. What was I thinking?

You did not mention "the building" as the source of joy, you mentioned the cantilever as the source of joy. That is actually bizarre.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 06:24 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #77
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You did not mention "the building" as the source of joy, you mentioned the cantilever as the source of joy. That is actually bizarre.
The cantilever has brought you joy though, and that is enough for me!

I'm sorry you don't like carved stone fashioned by skilled craftsmen into intricate and beautiful shapes, patterns and textures. I really am. It's like hearing someone doesn't like music.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 09:40 PM   #78
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I said it brought amazement and left an impression. Did not say anything about joy. That was you. As a matter of fact I said "joy" would be bizarre.

I like Tom Waits.

Check this one out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw

Maybe it is not even music for you.

Last edited by menganito; December 29th, 2012 at 09:56 PM.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #79
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I said it brought amazement
Are you talking about that poxy concrete corridor, or have we moved on to the hand-carved stonework of the temple?

Hope so!
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 07:43 AM   #80
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@Menganito
How many new buildings of this scale actually represent "an evolution for human knowledge and science"? I'd say hardly any, and certainly nothing modernist or concrete. The only exception I can think of is some kind of high-tech eco home.

It also sounds like you admire engineering and science more than architecture. If that's your bag, then why not ogle your smartphone or computer? Why not get excited by the Hadron Collider in Switzerland, or the latest record-breaking tunnel or bridge? Though they sometimes overlap, you should not confuse engineering with architecture.

The truth is that hardly any buildings of this size truly push the limits of our engineering. However they may still delight us with their architecture, and the temple certainly does that. And I love cnapan's comment that your non-appreciation of sculpture and form is analogous to not enjoying music.

You say you have no problem with this building, so why waste your time and vitriol on this thread? The truth is you do have an issue with this building, as you have with anything that isn't concrete or modern. And it's no good pretending your interest is science or engineering, because if that were truly the case, your hostile opinions wouldn't be here at all.

It seems that people like you and DarJoLe want to borg the world to a kind of concrete modernist conformism. It's aggressive, philistine, narrow-minded, and totally at odds with a genuine appreciation of architecture, or indeed of London. Most architecture lovers enjoy different styles and varied cities.
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Last edited by Langur; January 2nd, 2013 at 08:17 AM.
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