daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Skyscrapers

Skyscrapers General news, discussion and announcement forum about skyscrapers, including the Skyscraper Living forum



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 12th, 2012, 04:52 PM   #1
heightincreasing
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
Likes (Received): 0

Is it possible to increase the height of old buildings?

Is it possible to say increase the height of old skyscrapers like the empire state building? Like by adding more to it some how? Or would the foundations crumble? Would it just wreck the whole design?

What do you people think?
heightincreasing no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 12th, 2012, 05:00 PM   #2
heightincreasing
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
Likes (Received): 0

surely the extra weight would make the building collapse?
heightincreasing no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #3
Kopacz
Registered User
 
Kopacz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Stalowa Wola
Posts: 1,998
Likes (Received): 1599

Well most buildings are constructed in a way that makes it impossible to add anything. Ventilation shafts, elevators, water/electricity installations etc. would have to be completely rebuilt in order to do anything.
Constructions also have specific weight support limits and if you added extra levels it would all just go down.
Most of the heightening jobs are done by simply adding a new building around the old one - putting a core somewhere in the middle or doing a support frame.
Oh and no one would actually care to do such things to an existing skyscraper. If it's not profitable then it goes down and something higher replaces it.
Kopacz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 11:48 PM   #4
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,479

The only tower I can imagine this happening to is the Sears Tower. I think it was built to increase height if needed.
ThatOneGuy está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2012, 12:47 AM   #5
hingpit1984
WOW Philippines
 
hingpit1984's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Butuan/Pasig
Posts: 198
Likes (Received): 48

The base of the building is contructed to support its intended height and weight so if you add more to it it will eventually reach its breaking point and everything will just collapse.

Unless if the building was erected to support additional floors, then it is still possible to increase its height.

There is a mall in my country that is only around 4 floors but they are building a tower of more than 40 floors on top of it.
hingpit1984 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2012, 06:36 PM   #6
Citystyle
Watch my Chops
 
Citystyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth,
Posts: 5,932
Likes (Received): 500

Yes.

Plenty of technology around to sure up footings and foundations to support increased loads, but it has it's limits.
__________________
Sec. 31 But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as anyone can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others. Nothing was made by God for man to spoil or destroy. And thus considering the plenty of natural provisions there was a long time in the world, and the few spenders, and to how small a part provision the industry of one man could extend itself, and ingross itself to the prejudice of others.
- John Locke
Citystyle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #7
saiho
Registered User
 
saiho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 多伦多/多倫多
Posts: 1,320
Likes (Received): 1206

If you planned for it in the future yes you can. Like the Blue Cross Blue Shield Tower Other than that low to mid rises can get vertical expansions but tall buildings in ESB already is pushing the limit so it would take some innovative civil eng to make that work.
saiho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2012, 05:32 AM   #8
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,409
Likes (Received): 21024

I think that even if technology allows foundation reinforcement, the economics might not favor building additional unplanned floors on tall buildings/

If only a couple floors are added, the costs of retrofitting shafts, pipes, machinery probably don't justify the few % of area added and the costs of disrupting the building normal use for at least 1 1/2 year (being very optimistic). It's very different than adding a 5th floor to a 4-story building than adding 4 extra floors to an 50-story one.

Moreover, the extra weight of new floors, alone, might stress the supporting structures, even if the foundations can be made stronger. If you are to completely rebuild a tall building it is probably cheaper to just tear the whole thing down.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2012, 11:13 PM   #9
DecoJim
Registered User
 
DecoJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Detroit
Posts: 211
Likes (Received): 6

1972 Plan to add floors to Empire State Building

The owners of the Empire State Building considered adding more floors to recapture the WTB title from the new World Trade Center in 1972.

I found an article that mentions this in passing and shows two of the studies for the taller version of the ESB (good thing the plan was shelved!).

http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=3234
DecoJim no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2012, 11:23 PM   #10
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

The taller ESB looks amazing, better than the original. Too bad that it wasn't rebuilt to this form, though I really doubt the feasibility of such an height increase.
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2012, 11:49 PM   #11
L.A.F.2.
Georgia Tech
 
L.A.F.2.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,406
Likes (Received): 5307

Centerpoint Energy Plaza in Houston did it:

CenterPoint Energy Plaza (formerly Houston Industries Plaza) is a 741 ft (226 m) building in downtown Houston. The original building, finished in 1974, stood at 651 feet (198 m), but a 90-foot (27 m) extension was added as part of a 1996 renovation
-Wikipedia

A zoom on the extension:

L.A.F.2. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2012, 05:46 PM   #12
Eric Offereins
The only way is up
 
Eric Offereins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 68,581
Likes (Received): 28145

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
The taller ESB looks amazing, better than the original. Too bad that it wasn't rebuilt to this form, though I really doubt the feasibility of such an height increase.
Couldn't disagree more. I'm glad they didn't built these extra floors and ruin this icon.
Eric Offereins no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2012, 06:47 PM   #13
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

isn't there a tower in chicago which got a some floors on top?
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 22nd, 2012, 06:50 PM   #14
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cr...e_Shield_Tower
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2012, 11:24 AM   #15
Gerardogt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,365
Likes (Received): 268

The best example that i know:

"Tour First" París, France:

-----------------BEFORE (1974)-----------------
The building was 159 m (522 ft)




By JP2H:
image hosted on flickr



-----------------AFTER (2007-2011)-----------------
225 m (738 ft) at roof height, and 231 m (758 ft) including its spire


By JP2H:
image hosted on flickr


By Ghjattu:
image hosted on flickr



Left (sunny) / Right (rainy)

Last edited by Gerardogt; December 23rd, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
Gerardogt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:46 PM   #16
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

indeed, this has got an massive height increase too!
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:56 PM   #17
redbaron_012
Registered User
 
redbaron_012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 11,559
Likes (Received): 3093

I haven't read all the previous posts but sure you can dramatically increase the height of old buildings. If the old building was an office building converted to apartments the load bearing is completely different and many floors have been added to such structures safely. I know this has happened here in Melbourne anyway..........Don't use the ESB as an example as it would be historically listed now......I do remember a proposal years ago but it would have wrecked the icon. Years ago there was much more paper held in buildings, files etc today it is all on computers etc......so even office towers could be increased in height.
__________________
"Make no small plans, for they have not power to stir the blood" - Daniel H. Burnham
redbaron_012 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2012, 02:52 PM   #18
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

if the structure and foundation of the current tower is strong enough it's no problem
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:02 PM   #19
Kyll.Ing.
Registered User
 
Kyll.Ing.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 1,084
Likes (Received): 3615

This was done with the Post Office building in Oslo in 2003. Seven floors were added, and the building's facade split into two.

Before:


primusweb.no

After:


Ajl.no

At 111 metres, it is the second tallest building in Norway today, beaten only by its neighbour Oslo Plaza (and some factory tower in Halden, which nobody really counts).
__________________
Poe's law: You can't impersonate stupidity without somebody mistaking it for the real thing.
Kyll.Ing. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #20
Denjiro
Heathen
 
Denjiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Saigon
Posts: 6,573
Likes (Received): 7095

Another example in Antwerp(en)/Anvers.

The Boerentoren
Before: It was 87.5 m tall.

After: It has become 97 m tall.
__________________
Vietnam ღ
SAIGONHANOIDANANG
Denjiro no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu