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Old January 28th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Let's do another guess the streetcar... From which city is this streetcar livery dedicated to:
Leσn? Mmm, maybe San Antonio?

Love public transportation and you are very well served!
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Old January 28th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #62
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Neither are correct. Hint: it's somewhere in the Rust Belt.

Thanks for your lovely comment too. Indeed, I am very well-served with it.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #63
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Then has to be Pittsburg!
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:23 AM   #64
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Nope. Go a little west.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #65
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Philly?
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Old January 29th, 2013, 07:59 AM   #66
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Nope, that's going east. I mean, head west like, say, Ohio or Indiana?
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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:10 AM   #67
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Let's do San Francisco Muni, in a little more detail:







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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #68
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Nope, that's going east. I mean, head west like, say, Ohio or Indiana?
Somehow I read East and were not too many options...

Cleveland or Cincinatti?
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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:20 AM   #69
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perfect! It's Cincinnati.

I'll tell you: some of those streetcar liveries may not be that obvious... But I'm more than happy to give users clues to help you out.
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Last edited by fieldsofdreams; January 30th, 2013 at 11:36 PM.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 04:16 AM   #70
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I'll do a little special pic from my archives... This was the ramp for Muni buses on the old (now destroyed) Transbay Terminal. It was taken weeks before the last buses used the terminal that first opened as a streetcar terminal for the Key System that brought commuters between San Francisco and the East Bay... With the bus substitution, the fate of the terminal changed, and it is currently being reconstructed as a future major terminal for Caltrain, California HSR, and many bus agencies serving San Francisco.

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Old January 30th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #71
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Thanks Fieldsofdreams for pointing me to this thread from your other SF pics: Now I'm full of questions!

1) is the policy of integrating historic tramways into the SF network an ongoing thing? It would seem like it from your comment about the Melbourne tram being purchased as recently as a couple of years ago; if so, my esteem for whoever is in charge of this kind of thing has gone up even higher than it originally was.

2) is there any issue regarding the guage of the trams? I would have assumed that some of them may not be exactly the same as those required for SF tracks, although perhaps I'm wrong on this matter and it is not a problem at all.

3) where I live in Europe (France) trams went out of "fashion" in the 1950s and 60s, lines were ripped up in order to turn cities more automobile-friendly. Now many cities have recognised the error of their ways and tramlines are making a comeback (here in Marseille in the last decade only). Did this happen in SF or have trams always been a staple of public transport, uninterrupted? In my mind I have always associated San Fransisco with trams (and hills, and muscle cars bouncing up and down them so yes... maybe stereotypes!).

4) from what I gather from what you have written and photographed there are several private bus companies that operate (correct me if I'm wrong). However I believe BART is run by the municipality (again, please correct me if needed). So if my impressions are correct public transport in SF (and the Bay Area) is a combination of both private and public enterprise. Does this work out well with the public, and politicians of either side? Is it even a debate? (re fares, taxes, who gets which lines etc)

I enjoyed your photos, it's always a joy to see historic trams! Where I live they're lovely modern Bombardier trams, they're great... but they don't have that charm that you get with the classic ones! Please keep such photos coming. Also if you have the opportunity of getting a pic of Greyhound bus it will be well appreciated! Do they still have some of the older ones in circulation?
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Old January 31st, 2013, 02:35 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man View Post
I enjoyed your photos, it's always a joy to see historic trams! Where I live they're lovely modern Bombardier trams, they're great... but they don't have that charm that you get with the classic ones! Please keep such photos coming. Also if you have the opportunity of getting a pic of Greyhound bus it will be well appreciated! Do they still have some of the older ones in circulation?
Thank you! Indeed, it is a joy for me to share things that not a lot of people tend to appreciate... and I enjoy filling those gaps where needed! Transport is in my blood, and I really love taking transport pics. You never know... I might present a Greyhound bus today or tomorrow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man
1) is the policy of integrating historic tramways into the SF network an ongoing thing? It would seem like it from your comment about the Melbourne tram being purchased as recently as a couple of years ago; if so, my esteem for whoever is in charge of this kind of thing has gone up even higher than it originally was.
It is actually a concerted effort between San Francisco Muni and a non-profit group, the Market Street Railway Association, in which both of them operate those colorful streetcars on a daily, rotating basis. More information about the Market Street Railway, along with its streetcar and cable car descriptions and profiles, can be viewed here. Along with that website, you can actually check out which streetcars operate on Market Street and The Embarcadero in real time: on the website, click the F-Line Live! tab for a latest check on which streetcars operate at this very moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man
2) is there any issue regarding the gauge of the trams? I would have assumed that some of them may not be exactly the same as those required for SF tracks, although perhaps I'm wrong on this matter and it is not a problem at all.
Not to my knowledge. The streetcars used mostly conform to the standard rail gauge of 4' 8-1/2", and most of them (especially the PCCs, also described on the Market Street Railway website) have been refurbished after their retirement like, say, 20 to 30 years ago. It all depends on the condition of the exterior and interior that count, as well as its operability... some of the streetcars undergo extensive renovations, in not just refurbishing, and some of them come as far as Porto in Portugal, Kobe in Japan, and Zurich in Switzerland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man
3) where I live in Europe (France) trams went out of "fashion" in the 1950s and 60s, lines were ripped up in order to turn cities more automobile-friendly. Now many cities have recognised the error of their ways and tramlines are making a comeback (here in Marseille in the last decade only). Did this happen in SF or have trams always been a staple of public transport, uninterrupted? In my mind I have always associated San Fransisco with trams (and hills, and muscle cars bouncing up and down them so yes... maybe stereotypes!).
It also happened in San Francisco when the interstate freeways were built in the 1950s and 60s (e.g. I-80, I-580, I-880), with the original plan being to encircle the City with freeways and freeway underpasses to "make the trip through town quicker". However, the Freeway Revolts happened in San Francisco and many other cities in the United States wherein freeway construction projects were either slowed down or stopped altogether as those were considered NIMBYs (Not in my Backyard) for many of the city's neighborhoods, in which those were made to "divide communities" and limit access of automobiles to the zooming freeways, with noise and congestion being the primary complaints. With that development, streetcar lines were torn apart (especially the Key System that connected the East Bay from San Francisco via the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge), and the City fared no better with the automobile winning over the streetcars over time... originally, there were at least ten streetcar and cable car lines in the city; now, there are three cable car and one streetcar (to become two in a few years) lines left operating in San Francisco. The City has been so fortunate that such public transit modes still exist today, and it has been really grateful that through the Parade of Streetcars held in the 1980s, the streetcars returned to San Francisco, and it has been made a permanent line since 1994. (See Market Street Railway also for a history of the San Francisco cable cars)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man
4) from what I gather from what you have written and photographed there are several private bus companies that operate (correct me if I'm wrong). However I believe BART is run by the municipality (again, please correct me if needed). So if my impressions are correct public transport in SF (and the Bay Area) is a combination of both private and public enterprise. Does this work out well with the public, and politicians of either side? Is it even a debate? (re fares, taxes, who gets which lines etc)
There are quite a lot of private and public bus companies, sure, but let me break it down in a few bits as a preview: (I will explain them in detail in another post)

- Private bus companies are more likely to be tour operators
- Public bus companies are those that I would usually photograph
- BART is actually operated as a consortium of counties, with several transit agencies paying their fair share too of its operations
- There have been debates on how to integrate the myriad of bus, train, and ferry companies operating around the region, with mixed results
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Old January 31st, 2013, 02:54 AM   #73
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Golden Gate Transit and Marin Transit buses at Redwood & Grant in Novato. This hub serves seven bus routes (three basic, three local, and one commute) that operate as far south as San Francisco and as far north as Santa Rosa.









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Old February 1st, 2013, 11:55 PM   #74
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Let's do a little catch up today... more scenes from Muni, AM rush hour:



















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Old February 2nd, 2013, 08:25 AM   #75
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@Piltup Man, let me finally answer your very good question in detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piltup Man
from what I gather from what you have written and photographed there are several private bus companies that operate (correct me if I'm wrong). However I believe BART is run by the municipality (again, please correct me if needed). So if my impressions are correct public transport in SF (and the Bay Area) is a combination of both private and public enterprise. Does this work out well with the public, and politicians of either side? Is it even a debate? (re fares, taxes, who gets which lines etc)
Part 1

To explain the Bay Area transit structure means one needs to define a few terms:

• The Metropolitan Transportation Commission (MTC) is the regional transportation agency that deals primarily with transportation in the San Francisco Bay Area. Its programs include, but not limited to, road and highway development and maintenance, bike lanes and sharing programs, carpooling, public transportation (which also includes 511 and Clipper, below), emergency management and coordination with all forms of mass transit, accessibility and fares, and environmental impacts and mitigation programs, all of which are used to determine a sustainable transportation mode share for the region. Website
• While the MTC provides funding and guidance for transportation-related projects in the Bay Area, Caltrans (CA Department of Transportation) provides additional services and features that, along with the MTC, help maintain smooth drive times along the region's freeways, including freeway travel times, roadside assistance, park-and-ride lots, and call boxes, among many other important functions. Website
511 (also 511.org) is the Bay Area's source of transit, highway, and paratransit information. Initially offered to provide real-time traffic information, which includes the region's seven bridges and hundreds of miles of freeways, it has since expanded to provide public transit information, freeway aid, and paratransit assistance (with 711). Website
• The Clipper Card (formerly Translink) is a universal commuter card designed to streamline fare payments for buses, trains, streetcars, light rail, ferries, and (yes) cable cars that operate throughout the region. With it, commuters get lots of incentives and programs, from monthly passes to fare discounts to transfer privileges, and with a small start up fee, one can load the card up to $300 and it can be used on eight transit agencies right now, with more (around 20) to sign up soon. Website

On part 2, I will explain the bureaucracy of public transportation and programs.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 08:53 AM   #76
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Part 2

The Bay Area has around 25 transit agencies, most of which are operated publicly (meaning those are operated by either city, county, state, or federal), and those agency are called public transportation agencies because they get their funding from any of the following sources:

• Federal (grants, loans, subsidies)
• State (grants, assistance, loans, subsidies)
• Regional (MTC) — these could include grants, funds from measure taxes, assistance from other agencies, loans, or subsidies
• County (primarily sales and residential taxes)
• City or community (sales and residential taxes)
• Private or other sources (especially true for the Golden Gate District, where a good chunk of its transportation funding comes from tolls collected at the Golden Gate Bridge)

There is a comprehensive report that shows the breakdown of every agency's funding sources, along with some basics about the MTC, which I will list below:

ABCs of MTC: this handy book (around 50 pages) describes all the basics of the San Francisco Bay Area's transportation network, as well as the programs the MTC (and its affiliates) offer to commuters and drivers. PDF file
Statistical Summary of Bay Area Transit Operators: this comprehensive document (around 120 pages) shows every Bay Area transit agency's statistics, including funding sources, number of routes, ridership and operating hour statistics, fare box recovery ratio rates, and other vital information for every agency. This particular edition I've chosen for you is from June 2012, which covers (and compares) fiscal years 2006-07 all the way through 2010-11. PDF file

On Part 3, I will describe the differences between transit agencies.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:33 AM   #77
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Let me introduce yet another transit agency — a large one too.

The Santa Clara Valley Transportation Agency (also called the VTA) is the main public transportation provider and transportation development agency in Santa Clara County, the home of Silicon Valley. Not only it operates buses, shuttles, and light rail services, it also manages the expressway network, as well as the high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes, future BART extension, and congestion management in the county. It also participates in several joint operations with other transit agencies, including Dumbarton Express, Highway 17 Express, Caltrain, and Amtrak California, and along with Caltrans and MTC, it operates one Bus Rapid Transit line, Line 522 (El Camino Real, between Palo Alto and Eastridge in San Jose)

First up, the buses:











Along with those, the 522 Rapid buses:



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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:44 AM   #78
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The last pic is so cool, I wish we could transport bikes like that in our buses!
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:50 AM   #79
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Hehehe yep, almost all buses here in the Bay Area (with the exception of a few shuttle vans and some commuter buses) have bike racks, either mounted on the front (like above) or on a baggage rack below the bus. Here's a Golden Gate Transit articulated bus (operated by Marin Transit) that holds not just two bikes, but three:

At Redwood & Grant in Novato

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Old February 2nd, 2013, 03:33 PM   #80
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Wow! What a fine collection of public transport systems! I love trains, trams, metro's and trolleys. Ugly or beautiful, I'll try them all.

Just strolled through your most interesting thread and I noticed these buses. Could this be Belgian made VanHool-buses?
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