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Old September 4th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #121
samuel_1991
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Hi all, this is my prediction of how the JRL looks like one the future MRT linking the area (Some might left out as stated)

Note: All dotted line = Future extension / Future Line that has not announced

Green = Tuas South Extension / EWL

Blue = Cross Island Line / Downtown Line (As per announced section / extension towards Kranji on Woodlands Road only in the Greater Tengah area map)

Purple / Pink = Some other future line that I may post in future MRT line thread.

1: Boon Lay - Tukang (Along Coporation Road, a future line is omitted)



2: Tukang - Jurong Pier



3: Jurong Pier - Seraya



4: Serya - Tembusu



5: Tembusu - Pioneer Sector



6: Pioneer Sector - Tuas Crescent



7: Tuas Crescent - Ahmad Ibrahim



8: Ahmad Ibrahim - Cleantech



Annex 8: NTU



9: Cleantech - Westwood



10: Westwood - Boon Lay



11: Greater Tengah Area Map

PS: There is a purple dotted line that serves North of announced JRL Tengah's coverage. Why it seemed there is a loop line is because after some consideration, I realized that Taman Jurong area has the worst coverage of MRT (CRL serve industrial area and not covered by JRL) and hence speculated the need of a line. But after reading Tengah map, I find that the "Triangular sector" bordered by Pink Line, CCK branch of JRL (Along Jurong West Ave 2, Hong Kah MRT onwards to Tengah) and the beginning of Jurong East branch (Tengah - Yuhua) has no MRT nearby.

Hence, I extended the purple line from Coporation Road (Not shown in 1st map, should have shown??), shortening travel time from Lam Sam to Jurong Canal and subsequently (Not shown), Lakeside and Yuan Ching Road. Clearly, the purple from Lam Sam to Brickland East etc, is another CRL reliever that will speculated / hoped by me to interchange at Beauty World (Not shown).



12: Yuhua - Jurong East



13: Jurong East - Ayer Rajah



14: Ayer Rajah - Pandan Reservoir

PS: Any future speculation of this branch to close the link with Haw Par Villa and beyond is not shown.

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Old September 4th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuel_1991 View Post
Hi all, this is my prediction of how the JRL looks like one the future MRT linking the area (Some might left out as stated)

Note: All dotted line = Future extension / Future Line that has not announced

Green = Tuas South Extension / EWL

Blue = Cross Island Line / Downtown Line (As per announced section / extension towards Kranji on Woodlands Road only in the Greater Tengah area map)

Purple / Pink = Some other future line that I may post in future MRT line thread.

3: Jurong Pier - Seraya



4: Serya - Tembusu

5: Tembusu - Pioneer Sector


Samuel, I am not going to comment on the rest of your proposed routings. Just going to comment on the ones I am quoting here.

Frankly, have you ever been to Jurong Island? I think if you really want to have a line that goes into Jurong Island, you better find a place to locate your "CIQ". That is where all passengers entering the island get down, get scanned to ensure that they have the clearance to enter the island, and all visitors change pass and get scanned before entering.

Unless some miracle happened that removes all the need for these security measures, or someone comes up with a system of ensuring the security without the need for a "CIQ".
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Old September 4th, 2013, 05:38 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by demag_ac View Post
Samuel, I am not going to comment on the rest of your proposed routings. Just going to comment on the ones I am quoting here.

Frankly, have you ever been to Jurong Island? I think if you really want to have a line that goes into Jurong Island, you better find a place to locate your "CIQ". That is where all passengers entering the island get down, get scanned to ensure that they have the clearance to enter the island, and all visitors change pass and get scanned before entering.

Unless some miracle happened that removes all the need for these security measures, or someone comes up with a system of ensuring the security without the need for a "CIQ".
Valid point despite I had never went there before. Thanks for highlighting potential problem and it was planned to have a MRT line from CCK - Jurong Island via Tengah in 2001 Concept Plan. Perhaps the TSL - JB link can be used as a reference for that?

I think it might come out with few ideas, including:

A) On Pioneer Sector and Jurong Pier (Planned as terminus of JRL of NTU branch), there is a dummy station 50m away from the usual stop as CIQ.

However, the line's speed will be reduced greatly.

B) On all the Jurong Island stations, there is a security post to check everyone who is alighting / boarding on the MRT.

However, there should be a full wall covered all the way to ceiling in order to prevent anyone from climbing the wall and trespass.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 05:02 AM   #124
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Just simply having part of the line on the island will still be a security breach even with tons of mitigation, since theoretically someone can carry powerful explosives onto the trains and set them off while on the island close to one of the refineries. Just picture the terrorist video shown on the MRT platforms and you'll get what I mean.

Probably if you run the line 50m underground then it may help. But with 3 stations and workers still having to transfer to shuttle buses to get to the rest of the island, it's simply not cost effective at all.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 02:55 AM   #125
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on the JRL loop around Jurong Island, as many above has pointed out, I think its going to be a security issue. most people today enter Jurong Island for a very specific purpose, and its being facilitated by buses provided by the companies. I think its a good arrangement in view of the need for clearance and CIQ

your pink line was probably close to the original JRL. as much as I know it will be useful for existing residents, this very same project was shelved due to lack of space to widen the road median or for diversions without removing many, many trees. thus I am not so hopeful about this one. I will rather the new JRL try to position itself in a manner that allows it to serve parts of the district (eg running further east along JW Ave 2)

the purple line will not be built for a while. the government may recognise the need for greater rail coverage, but they arent building new lines that aggressively. CRL + JRL + CCL6 are probably just (or even barely) enough for 2030.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #126
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Here's my take on the JRL.
Main service to be between Jurong Hill to CCK.
Shuttle service from Jalan Bahar to NTU.
The Tengah - Jurong East part absorbed into a Western Region Line, which would continue eastward to the city.
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Old September 8th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aforl View Post


Here's my take on the JRL.
Main service to be between Jurong Hill to CCK.
Shuttle service from Jalan Bahar to NTU.
The Tengah - Jurong East part absorbed into a Western Region Line, which would continue eastward to the city.
I don't see the reason for this sub-line to NTU.
So people riding on the green line have to get off at Boon Lay,
get on the JRL, get off at Bahar for a shuttle to NTU.
I think people would be more likely to stick to buses
with more direct services to get to NTU. Unless this will
be part of a bigger plan perhaps?
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Old September 8th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TovAver1573 View Post
I don't see the reason for this sub-line to NTU.
So people riding on the green line have to get off at Boon Lay,
get on the JRL, get off at Bahar for a shuttle to NTU.
I think people would be more likely to stick to buses
with more direct services to get to NTU. Unless this will
be part of a bigger plan perhaps?

Hi Aforl, just to add on as above:

There is no mention that Boon Lay - CCK must be one line and NTU - Jalan Bahar another shuttle.

It is more likely that Boon Lay will use a stacked platform, with 2 of them (On one side) is the terminus joining to the other 2 at overrun.

Hence, it will be a Jurong Hill - NTU one branch and Boon Lay - CCK another branch.

Tengah, can also be similar to Boon Lay where Tengah - Jurong East a branch.

If not you are better off say Jurong Hill - Pandan as one branch of JRL, CCK - Tengah as a sub branch, and Jalan Bahar - NTU as another minor branch.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 05:18 AM   #129
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Well done aforl. This is my take, I think before we comment too much on the details and technicalities based on own assumptions from the map aforl has made. I think that there isn't a lot of details for you to harp on things like which is the spur line and which is the main and where the transfer is going to be.

The alignment of the line and stations are fine, except that I would imagine that the station density within Tengah to be higher, possibly at 800m per station to achieve 400m walking distance. Other than that I can't really comment that much.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #130
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One of my concerns regarding the JRL is that it appears to reinforce Boon Lay's status as a transport hub, essentially negating the benefit of having built BLE in the first place. Currently, NTU shuttle buses which while I'll concede, play a minority role in the shuttling of students compared to the public services, currently utilize Pioneer station which in turn, does help relieve Boon Lay a tad but a tad nonetheless. Perhaps I might be understating the effect of the connectivity brought by the CRL transfer with JRL. Still, it's an observation that I thought I should bring up.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 02:58 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post
One of my concerns regarding the JRL is that it appears to reinforce Boon Lay's status as a transport hub, essentially negating the benefit of having built BLE in the first place. Currently, NTU shuttle buses which while I'll concede, play a minority role in the shuttling of students compared to the public services, currently utilize Pioneer station which in turn, does help relieve Boon Lay a tad but a tad nonetheless. Perhaps I might be understating the effect of the connectivity brought by the CRL transfer with JRL. Still, it's an observation that I thought I should bring up.
I disagree that JRL will negate BLE's benefits. This is because when talking about BLE, one should look at the greater plan like Tuas West / South extension (Possibly a new full line leading to north of Tengah?) and etc.

Without BLE, not to mention Tuas South, just Tuas West Extension is more benefit that one can see. Perhaps the benefits with TWE adds stress to Jurong East / Clementi residents as the factory shuttle bus there might just bring them to Tuas MRT there and yup, increased ridership to overloaded EWL....
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Old September 16th, 2013, 10:02 AM   #132
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Any possibilities that the extension to Haw Par Villa will be part of DTLe? I think in this case, the EWL has provided a link to Buona Vista, roughly close to HPV. Rather, the fact that it branches of at Beauty World (perhaps?) can provide a quick link along the Holland corridor.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 01:02 PM   #133
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Any possibilities that the extension to Haw Par Villa will be part of DTLe? I think in this case, the EWL has provided a link to Buona Vista, roughly close to HPV. Rather, the fact that it branches of at Beauty World (perhaps?) can provide a quick link along the Holland corridor.
I can't exactly get what you are trying to say but let me try. You are saying if it is possible to have a branch from DTL2 at BTW to HPV on the CCL. My answer is still yes, it's possible, although the chance of that happening has been diminished since CRL was announced.

Nonetheless there is still a possibility of such a branch running along Clementi Rd and West Coast Highway to HPV, interchanging with the CRL at Ulu Pandan on the way. This branch will definitely be useful for NP, SIM, SST and NUS students.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 06:12 PM   #134
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HPV is an STD, isn't it?
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Old September 17th, 2013, 09:48 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by mdzulkar9 View Post
HPV is an STD, isn't it?
Dun think sick lah . HPV in this context Is Haw Par Villa. Anyway, just to give you a rough idea, here is my speculation for DTL2e, starting from King Albert Park, ending at Kent Ridge

King Albert Park
Ngee Ann
Holland Green
Mount Sinai
Dover Interchange
Dover South
NUS
Kent Ridge

Just thinking, Why not consolidate all interchanges at Gul Circle instead of Tuas Crescent? 2nd point, Why can't we extend DTL from Bukit Panjang to Mandai and CCK to Kranji?
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Old September 17th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabc View Post
Dun think sick lah . HPV in this context Is Haw Par Villa. Anyway, just to give you a rough idea, here is my speculation for DTL2e, starting from King Albert Park, ending at Kent Ridge

King Albert Park
Ngee Ann
Holland Green
Mount Sinai
Dover Interchange
Dover South
NUS
Kent Ridge

Just thinking, Why not consolidate all interchanges at Gul Circle instead of Tuas Crescent? 2nd point, Why can't we extend DTL from Bukit Panjang to Mandai and CCK to Kranji?
I'm sure he knows what HPV is, he's just joking lol.

My guess is that the connection will be at BTW, circleline4 mentioned before that it can be Hume too. Personally I do not think there is a need to interchange with EWL, so the line can simply run along Clementi Rd.

For your second set of replies, I can only say that the CRL stations are still quite speculative now, so it may interchange at either. Currently the alignment on the LTA maps just shows it running straight along Pioneer Rd and then stop near Tuas Crescent, of course that doesn't mean they may decide to interchange it at Gul Circle. As for the northern extension of DTL2, my guess is that in the near term at least for the next 40 years, I don't think there's a need. Developments from GDB all the way to Kranji are still mainly industrial, and will remain so until the 30yr leases for the industrial sites to be sold in the next 5-10years runs out.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerabc View Post
Dun think sick lah . HPV in this context Is Haw Par Villa.
a) there nothing sick about it.
b) HPV as an STD is a reality.
c) calm down it was a joke.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 02:25 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by samuel_1991 View Post
I disagree that JRL will negate BLE's benefits. This is because when talking about BLE, one should look at the greater plan like Tuas West / South extension (Possibly a new full line leading to north of Tengah?) and etc.

Without BLE, not to mention Tuas South, just Tuas West Extension is more benefit that one can see. Perhaps the benefits with TWE adds stress to Jurong East / Clementi residents as the factory shuttle bus there might just bring them to Tuas MRT there and yup, increased ridership to overloaded EWL....
We certainly have the advantage of retrospect, since we've had new information, aka, the announcement of the EWL being further extended to Tuas Link. However, the BLE was initially built for the purpose of serving Jurong West and Jurong Industrial Estate. I feel that the JRL ultimately compromises the former purpose, because it reinforces Boon Lay as the transport hub of the region, which, brings commuters who're currently alighting at Pioneer to transfer onto buses to their onward destination, back to Boon Lay with the improved connectivity of the JRL.

I'd even argue that the purpose of Joo Koon was also compromised. Do remember that there were plans for some kind of transport hub at Joo Koon which was downgraded into some extended bus stop, and eventually turned into nothing.

Considering this, they had might as well built BLE together with TWE in the first place.

The only thing I suppose, the BLE did do, is to technically increase turnaround times by removing Boon Lay as a terminus.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 03:24 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by ddes View Post
We certainly have the advantage of retrospect, since we've had new information, aka, the announcement of the EWL being further extended to Tuas Link. However, the BLE was initially built for the purpose of serving Jurong West and Jurong Industrial Estate. I feel that the JRL ultimately compromises the former purpose, because it reinforces Boon Lay as the transport hub of the region, which, brings commuters who're currently alighting at Pioneer to transfer onto buses to their onward destination, back to Boon Lay with the improved connectivity of the JRL.

I'd even argue that the purpose of Joo Koon was also compromised. Do remember that there were plans for some kind of transport hub at Joo Koon which was downgraded into some extended bus stop, and eventually turned into nothing.

Considering this, they had might as well built BLE together with TWE in the first place.

The only thing I suppose, the BLE did do, is to technically increase turnaround times by removing Boon Lay as a terminus.
The Joo Koon Integrated Transport Hub is being built in conjunction with the NTUC FairPrice distripark adjacent to the MRT station, due 2015 I believe.

I have always seen BLE as the first stage to the TWE. Joo Koon probably was meant to be built up as a PT hub much sooner. Whatever LTA used to describe it then are partially marketing puffs, just like how the additional station is used to justify the delay to DTL3 completion. If we all remember at one point there was evidence pointing to a bus parking facility on tender. I can imagine that being derailed by the knowledge that the PT hub can be built in the near future with the FairPrice facility.

As for JRL connecting to Boon Lay, I think it's definitely preferable to Joo Koon since the station can serve both residents and workers. It's about striking a balance between serving more people and reducing congestion. I don't think the role of BLE is diminished if it works in concert with JRL/TWE and the new PT Hub as hubs and spokes to share the load originally fully shouldered by Boon Lay.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 07:18 AM   #140
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Hi guys, this thread really grabbed my interest, as i agree with y2koh regarding the extension of JRL to Bukit Panjang, and i had wondered if anybody else thought the same. so far LTA has intentionally avoided building parallel lines (even parallel lines to bus routes), although parallel lines are a norm in other cities like London. Given the strain that all forms of public transport are now taking, its high time to abandon this policy even outside the CBD.

anyway i was intrigued by the suggested line maps by aranho, aforl, and samuel_1991. i came up with a fantasy line map of my own. The philosophy behind the line is that it connect residential areas to industrial estates (toh guan, jurong, bukit batok, pandan), and provide smooth western transfer points between NSL, EWL, DTL, and CRL. one concern I have with it is that the taman jurong area still seems a bit under-served, although residential estates here are rather narrow, and might benefit from short feeder services to existing EWL stations.

Some differences from LTA's sketch and some other fantasy plans:
1. Doing away with congested Boon Lay as a transfer point in favour of Pioneer, which is already utilised by NTU students and workers.
2. Doing away with the shuttle service to nanyang and making it a mainline station given the fact that many are likely to take the train from Pioneer to Nanyang.
3. Routing the front-leg of the dog (I like to think of JRL as shaped like a dog) via Toh Guan / Bukit Batok East rather than through Jurong residential areas, to connect the line with more industrial areas.
4. Opening the possibility of changing the whole thing two a second circle line, which navigates south of Jurong lake, providing a station in a now rather ulu part of Jurong. (Alternative, the CRL can serve this section south of Jurong lake, Yuan Ching station, anyone?)
5. Linking JRL to Bukit Panjang for seamless transfer to DTL, to siphon northern and Tengah traffic to the CBD away from the over congested Jurong East interchange (which should make adding another transit at Jurong East a less crazy idea).

Let me know what you think, especially of any noob mistakes:


Last edited by howillthisfadge; October 24th, 2013 at 07:26 AM.
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