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Old February 10th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #221
Ribarca
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I think it is because Manchester had a lot of canals in the industrial era.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #222
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Yes, That's probably the reason why the three other cities are associated with Venice.
Still, if Manchester was called Venice of the north, it must have been with a certain irony. Foreign visitors of Manchester in the 19th and early 20th century were amazed to see that such a rich city could be so ugly that all forms of (higher) culture were absent. This is pretty much the opposite of Venice. Before the industrial revolution, prosperity and flourishing trade were always translated into enormous cultural investments.
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Old February 10th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #223
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Same with Wolfsburg today
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Old February 10th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #224
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Prewar pictures

Ingwaeone: most of your colour pictures were taken before or just after 1900.
In 1940 most German cities were quite modern already with modern Bauhaus suburbs. Bristling with cars, city lights, advertisement on virtually every building in the city centres. Flags on the houses (!). Most impressive Gründerzeit houses (1902-1912) were already "trimmed" and losing most of the abundant sculptures. Cities were modernized from 1925 on.

Look on photographs of Tauentzienstrasse in Berlin around 1900 (pure Belle Epoque) and than in the thirties: now the street has been transformed already with less abundant and more sobre fassades.....more business style.

In 1900 there were a lot of horse drawn carriages, in the thirties there were 50 to 100 times more cars and no horses in the streets.....

What always strikes me is the gigantic number of people in the Streets....in the thirties: everybody enjoys the highly urbanized cities.

Of the number of inhabitants most cities had between 5 and 20% more than you are telling us.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 12:45 AM   #225
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Aw Manchester wasn't all that bad, the centre was very grand









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Survivors:

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Old February 11th, 2013, 02:39 AM   #226
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Sorry to go off on a side-note: there are lots of pre-war photos of German cities here, which were all devastated during the war. Can anyone give me some examples of German cities/large towns that were not damaged? I am going to Germany this summer, and would appreciate some suggestions as to potential destinations.. thanks in advance!!!
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Old February 11th, 2013, 04:05 AM   #227
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Gorlitz and Regensburg.

That's pretty much it I'm afraid.

Most (but not all) of the small towns came out of it unscathed however.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 06:11 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriswalker View Post
Sorry to go off on a side-note: there are lots of pre-war photos of German cities here, which were all devastated during the war. Can anyone give me some examples of German cities/large towns that were not damaged? I am going to Germany this summer, and would appreciate some suggestions as to potential destinations.. thanks in advance!!!
Also, Tübingen, Flensburg, Bamberg and - I think - Erfurt.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 10:19 AM   #229
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Constance hasn't been bombed either.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #230
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I can't believe how beautiful Nuremberg was - I had no idea.

Imagine how amazing it would be to visit such an incredible medieval cityscape had it survived.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #231
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Beautiful pictures and aerial photographs

Ingwaeone has shown us the beauty of prewar German cities which were in effect in 1940 even more attractive than around 1900, because a kind of modernism had set in which had an acceptable volume compared to the still dominant number and presence of Gründerzeit buildings.

So that he is pro-German because they created once such magistral urban compositions like Hamburg, Dresden and Berlin and to a lesser extend in the other major and even minor cities, I can understand.

Hitler however was the one which gave the Allies a reason (an allibi) to destroy all the cities. Perhaps this was done partly because of jealousy and partly to punnish the German population for following Hitler and all what was done after that.

Best preserved German cities (up to 33% destroyed):

München, Leipzig, Halle, Erfurt, Wiesbaden, Görlitz, Heidelberg, Freiburg, Eisenach, Bautzen, Meissen, Meiningen, Fulda, Altenburg, Pirna, Bamberg, Ravensburg, Konstanz, Tübingen, Nordlingen, Göttingen, Fürth, Erlangen, Regensburg, Passau, Schwerin, Wittenberg, Fulda, Marburg, Flensburg, Ingolstadt, Esslingen, Oldenburg, Coburg, Gotha, Gera, Jena, Lübeck, Bielefeld, Karlsruhe, Rostock, Moers, Oberkassel, Kaiserslautern, Trier, Augsburg.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #232
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You can "ignore" certain posts from people???
No, you have to put the user on "ignore." The only way you'll see any of their posts after that is if someone unfortunately quotes them.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 11:55 PM   #233
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London, by Life.

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Old February 12th, 2013, 12:30 AM   #234
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London, 1930s.









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Old February 12th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #235
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London, 1930s.









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Old February 12th, 2013, 12:36 AM   #236
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London.

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Old February 12th, 2013, 12:52 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
Also, Tübingen, Flensburg, Bamberg and - I think - Erfurt.
Erfurt was heavily damaged. and the others fall into the category of smaller towns.

As a previous post said, the only "larger" cities not mostly destroyed were Regensburg and Gorlitz (and even Gorlitz wasn't/isn't all that big).
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Old February 12th, 2013, 04:48 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassiker View Post
Ingwaeone has shown us the beauty of prewar German cities which were in effect in 1940 even more attractive than around 1900, because a kind of modernism had set in which had an acceptable volume compared to the still dominant number and presence of Gründerzeit buildings.

So that he is pro-German because they created once such magistral urban compositions like Hamburg, Dresden and Berlin and to a lesser extend in the other major and even minor cities, I can understand.

Hitler however was the one which gave the Allies a reason (an allibi) to destroy all the cities. Perhaps this was done partly because of jealousy and partly to punnish the German population for following Hitler and all what was done after that.

Best preserved German cities (up to 33% destroyed):

München, Leipzig, Halle, Erfurt, Wiesbaden, Görlitz, Heidelberg, Freiburg, Eisenach, Bautzen, Meissen, Meiningen, Fulda, Altenburg, Pirna, Bamberg, Ravensburg, Konstanz, Tübingen, Nordlingen, Göttingen, Fürth, Erlangen, Regensburg, Passau, Schwerin, Wittenberg, Fulda, Marburg, Flensburg, Ingolstadt, Esslingen, Oldenburg, Coburg, Gotha, Gera, Jena, Lübeck, Bielefeld, Karlsruhe, Rostock, Moers, Oberkassel, Kaiserslautern, Trier, Augsburg.
as a lover of great art and architecture and as hopefully as a civilized person I abhor war and especially attacks on civilians and great works of their civilization. the loss of these stunning German cities is tragic, the loss of Warsaw, Gdansk as it was even more to me and Poles. Sadly the destruction of these cities was done to demoralize and punish Germans just like the destruction of Warsaw and so much Polish art etc was done to punish Poles for daring to resist Hitler. Hitler cost all of us a lot, he was evil and in the end turned on his own people, condeming them to ruin for what he thought was "their" failure while he escaped like a coward by committing suicide. Nothing wrong with celebrating what is and was great about Germany, I join you as I hope you will join us in celebrating and mourning our losses in a civilized and sensitive manner.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old February 12th, 2013, 06:34 AM   #239
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Were there plans to bomb Italian cities like Venice, Florence and Rome? I could only imagine the staggering loss if they were bombed.
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Old February 12th, 2013, 06:57 AM   #240
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as a lover of great art and architecture and as hopefully as a civilized person I abhor war and especially attacks on civilians and great works of their civilization. the loss of these stunning German cities is tragic, the loss of Warsaw, Gdansk as it was even more to me and Poles. Sadly the destruction of these cities was done to demoralize and punish Germans just like the destruction of Warsaw and so much Polish art etc was done to punish Poles for daring to resist Hitler. Hitler cost all of us a lot, he was evil and in the end turned on his own people, condeming them to ruin for what he thought was "their" failure while he escaped like a coward by committing suicide. Nothing wrong with celebrating what is and was great about Germany, I join you as I hope you will join us in celebrating and mourning our losses in a civilized and sensitive manner.
Do you also "abhor" the sadism and brutality and horror of the German conquest of Europe? The unimaginable suffering and cruelty and slavery which was intended to last a thousand years? You do not make any reference at all to any of that - I am sure you know what I am referring to.

There can be no agreement on this topic unless that is fully acknowledged. It is a painful reality - but it is a reality. Even then there is no possibility of discussion without inevitable anger and frustration.

There was great loss and tragedy in the suffering of the Germans in those beautiful cities. I agree that the greatness of Germany should be celebrated. And I agree that the destruction of those cities was terrible and wrong.

I have visited Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden, Lubeck. They are indeed remarkable cities and I am very aware of the losses. I have close German friends. I love them. I also have esteemed German business colleagues.

Germany is a very beautiful nation and I happen to love German high culture. I would like to have lived there for a while.

This thread contains many beautiful posts, but it is inherently a political thread. That cannot be avoided. There is a tendency in some of the posts to minimize and downplay the Nazis, and to portray the Germans as helpless victims of evil Americans and British. That is obviously unacceptable.

Hitler didn't do it by himself.
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