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Old February 2nd, 2013, 10:51 PM   #161
Indyk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassiker View Post
Unfornately the barbaric bloodfirsty Soviet red waves just moved over this street (from left to right) which was a barrier for the Soviets on their move towards the city center........
Are you aware that most of those buildings were demolished by the Germans themselves to create better defensive positions? A big part of the north-eastern part of the city was demolished to create an airfield. Unfortunately festung breslau was created and manned by fanatics fighting to the last drop to slow down the soviet advances towards Berlin, even though it was clear that the war has been lost.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 11:42 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwaeone View Post
Not lost, but well... Moscow
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:23 AM   #163
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Italian cities were relatively lucky because Italy was not a major front in the last 2 years of war. Most damaged cities were Naples in 1943, Livorno (important manufacturing center and harbour), Turin and Milan.

Historical cities like Rome, Siena, Pisa, Florence, Verona, Venice only saw bombings on specific targets. Railway stations, factories, etc.

One thing I would like to add. Bad urban planning has affected european cities at least as much as WWII bombings. One hundred years ago entire historical areas of european cities were torn down to build boulevards and new "modern" buildings. The same thing also happened after WWII.

Brussels for instance has been literally raped over the last 150 years, and only a small part of this damage was caused by the war.
Well there are at least four cities I could see
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 08:04 AM   #164
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What happened to Moscow?
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 09:32 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwaeone View Post
Not lost, but well... Moscow
This panorama from 1867, why it here?

Pre-war Moscow:






Other photos:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/aliksandar/album/178061/
And album of Stalinist architecture (and constructivism some):
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/aliksandar/album/178059/
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:26 AM   #166
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The Stalinist buildings looks superb!
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 01:48 PM   #167
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Breslau & Moscow

Indyk: yes in the North East corner, but Hohenzollern Strasse was in the large South Western suburbs. I don't know if the Germans blew up these massive buildings too for better fields of fire.
The Soviet losses were however modest so they were cautious not to lose too many near the end. German defenses were fanatical however and indeed spared no houses.

What was the official destruction grade of Breslau? And Stettin?

Stunning pictures of Moscow which must have been truly great in 1941!!
Huge buildings which can be compared to buildings of same dimensions and function in Berlin. A thorough Moscow Berlin comparison might be interesting!
Hamburg can be compared to St Petersburg (Leningrad), München with Charkow and Köln with Kiew. Further large Soviet cities were Odessa, Baku, Gorki, Dnepropetrovsk, Stalino, Tblisi, Rostov and Stalingrad. German comparisons: Leipzig, Essen, Dortmund, Breslau, Dresden, Hannover, Bremen, Düsseldorf, Stuttgart, Duisburg and Frankfurt.

German most destructed cities (inh.) > 50% destroyed were (40):

Big 13:
Berlin (4350), Hamburg (1750), Köln (770), Essen (670), Breslau (645), Dresden (635), Dortmund (550), Düsseldorf (540), Frankfurt (535), Stuttgart (490), Bremen (475), Hannover (450), Nürnberg (420).

Mid (9).

Gelsenkirchen (320), Königsberg (375), Danzig (350), Magdeburg (345), Stettin (375), Kiel (260+), Kassel (236), Mannheim (280+), Bochum (310).

100-200 inh.: Gems (18)
Pforzheim, Heilbronn, Würzburg, Darmstadt, Halberstadt, Paderborn, Aachen, Potsdam, Dessau, Ulm, Freiburg, Frankfurt/oder, Krefeld, Mainz, Münster, Plauen, Koblenz, Osnabrück.

Red = architectural valuable; bold: architectural great loss.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:45 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwaeone View Post
Not lost, but well... Moscow
Yes, it's lost but WWII had nothing to do with it. It's a result of a soviet approach to the city reconstruction.
In fact, WWII in that certain concern was a kind of a rescue for old Moscow (however cynical it sounds) because it stopped initial huge plans for its complete rebuilding.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 05:28 PM   #169
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Moscow THEN and NOW

How do the places look like nowadays if compared to the stunning b&w pictures of above? Are those buildings still standing? The first photograph apparently not since I don't recognize these magnificent buildings.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 05:51 PM   #170
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№№1 and 2 it is Manege Square, today:
http://kemclub.ru/photo/3669786/
https://maps.google.ru/?ll=55.755188...12,48.04,,0,-1

№3 it is Tverskaya Street and Government of Moscow, today:
https://maps.google.ru/?ll=55.76143,...5.93,,0,-11.22

№4 Frunze Military Academy, today
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=55.73...07.42,,0,-6.19

№5 Tverskaya Street 4:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=55.73...88.86,,0,-8.81
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 06:46 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwaeone View Post
The Stalinist buildings looks superb!
These buildings are just huge or better...enormous.
It's not fancy at all.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 06:59 PM   #172
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Hiroshima - Japan
Pre-war population: 419 000



No comments necessary... (I will use more than 5 images in order to present this lost city)

















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Nå er det lenge siden 1952!

Last edited by Oslo2022; February 18th, 2013 at 09:52 PM.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #173
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Hannover - Germany (90 percent of the city destroyed)
Pre-war population: 475 000



Hanover was an important road junction, railhead and production centre that was a target for strategic bombing during World War II, including the Oil Campaign. Targets included the AFA (Stöcken), the Deurag-Nerag refinery (Misburg), the Continental plants (Vahrenwald and Limmer), the United light metal works (VLW) in Ricklingen and Laatzen (today Hanover fairground), the Hanover/Limmer rubber reclamation plant, the Hanomag factory (Linden) and the tank factory M.N.H. Maschinenfabrik Niedersachsen (Badenstedt). Forced labourers were used from the Hannover-Misburg subcamp of the Neuengamme concentration camp. The residential areas were also targeted and more than 6,000 people were killed in the Allied bombing raids. More than 90% of the city centre was destroyed in 88 bombing raids. After the war, the Aegidienkirche was not rebuilt and its ruins were kept as a war memorial.

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/pp...400/00456v.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nover_1910.jpg


http://www.geschichteinchronologie.c...rasse-1900.jpg


http://www.carfree.com/postcard/post...over-markt.jpg


http://www.geschichteinchronologie.c...ild-1930ca.jpg
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Last edited by Oslo2022; February 18th, 2013 at 09:50 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 03:11 PM   #174
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I really wonder how Japanese cities would look today if they hadn't been destroyed.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 03:21 PM   #175
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everytime I am in Germany for any kind of trip, It saddens me to see the city centers once being such a beautiful medieval places with wooden houses and tall churches and today most of them are being replaced with ugly 60's or 70's era bland looking buildings and totally nothing left of the old spirit.

Off course there are a lot of places to look at and enjoy, many cities try their best to rebuild them, like Berlin that is just as I saw it a while back ago, is now a huge construction site but nonetheless they don't rebuild the old facade but all these new buildings. Looks something American but in an Old country.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:50 PM   #176
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New buildings in an Old Country

MisdsyC: except for Poland and some exceptions elswher most countries, Like Germany, built totally new buildings in modern architecture on "old" places?

Real reconstructions are seldom performed because no architect likes to built something from another architect!!!

Denkmal Schütz in Germany which cares about excisting buildings (not too much) is vehemently against reconstructions because it is not the original building.

The Avant Garde in cities is against reconstructions because they only like modern structures.

The rulers and upper class are against reconstructions because they themselves own old houses which then are less seldom when reconstructions should appear.

The generation after the war is not PRO reconstructions because they don't know their beauty.

So many factors are against reconstructions.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 01:34 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyk View Post
We're not talking about some weird German stereotypes. We're talking about facts. The facts the vast majority of Germans were nazis or their supporters, millions of Germans were directly connected to crimes against humanity in a war Germany started in an attempt to eliminate entire nations and gain lebensraum on ruins of their cities.
Fact: The Nazi's never received a majority of the German vote.

Never.

A plurality of the vote is the most they ever received.

But hey, don't let that simple fact get in the way of your hate.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 12:54 PM   #178
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The Nazis proclaimed peace. Hitler often talked about peace in his speeches. It's not like they officially planned to rule the world or sth like that.

Last edited by Ingwaeone; February 7th, 2013 at 01:00 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 12:59 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassiker View Post
Oslo2022: THX for this very nice picture of prewar Breslau.
In the southwestern part of the city was once a very great round square. Unfortunately just the area where the Soviets assaulted the City. How did the houses look like in this southwestern area?

Does anyone has a detailed street map of prewar Breslau ??
Klassiker, if you are interested in more detailed comparsion regarding Breslau/Wroclaw, maybe you will be interested in this thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1587327

just an example:
The area that was rebuild after the war:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmaciek View Post
The area that wasn't (look how dense this part of the city was before the war, and how commi-modernism destroyed this place in the sense of urban planning - it is probably one of the worst examples in this city though - but huge):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmaciek View Post
Południe, okolice pl. Powstańców Śląskich, pl. Hirszfeldka, ul. Kruczej, ul. Komandorskiej.


http://dolny-slask.org.pl/3653355,foto.html


and the Market Square (just because it is nice) - but negative effect of car culture in the second half od last century can be seen:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mmaciek View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer and Football View Post
Fact: The Nazi's never received a majority of the German vote.

Never.

A plurality of the vote is the most they ever received.

But hey, don't let that simple fact get in the way of your hate.
Depends where, they got majority in the eastern regions.
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Last edited by jwojcie; February 7th, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 03:25 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by jwojcie View Post
Depends where, they got majority in the eastern regions.

The area covered with red dash is where the majority was catholic. Of course these areas was also the reachest in Reich so that might another reason. Anyway...
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