daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Megatalls

Megatalls Discussions of projects under construction at least 600m/2,000 ft tall.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 5th, 2014, 08:23 AM   #61
z0rg
fok julle naaiers
 
z0rg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Madrid
Posts: 24,723
Likes (Received): 15902

Baishizhou+Shenwan skyline (basically the same area) is far more promising than Qianhai at the moment.
__________________
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

TowerVerre:) liked this post
z0rg no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 5th, 2014, 10:16 AM   #62
ZZ-II
I love Skyscrapers
 
ZZ-II's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Near Ingolstadt in Bavaria
Posts: 33,502
Likes (Received): 6525

As long as they start to build it anytime
ZZ-II no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 05:05 PM   #63
city of the future
city of the future
 
city of the future's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto / Saguenay
Posts: 1,147
Likes (Received): 248

Have they already sold most of the flats? where are the people coming from to fill such development?
city of the future no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 06:14 PM   #64
droneriot
Urban Hermit
 
droneriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cydonia Mensae
Posts: 4,659
Likes (Received): 2612

Hundreds of millions of rural Chinese are moving to the cities. That's where the people are coming from.
__________________

sweet-d, TowerVerre:) liked this post
droneriot no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 06:17 PM   #65
mthmchris
Registered User
 
mthmchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 97
Likes (Received): 52

What a disgrace. I can't believe this project actually came through.
__________________
"It may be that we have become so feckless as a people that we no longer care how things do work, but only what kind of quick, easy outer impression they give. If so, there is little hope for our cities or probably for much else in our society. But I do not think this is so."
mthmchris no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 06:37 PM   #66
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,497
Likes (Received): 6878

Yeah losing urban villages is always sad. But I think the replacement is worthy in this case and urban villages will still remain dominant in Shenzhen for quite some time.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 06:42 PM   #67
Elster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 639
Likes (Received): 1079

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Yeah losing urban villages is always sad. But I think the replacement is worthy in this case and urban villages will still remain dominant in Shenzhen for quite some time.
I would erase Rome entirely for projects like that
__________________
Elster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 08:44 PM   #68
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,330
Likes (Received): 8231

just hoping we will get more details about each of the towers with time and seeing this actually get moving, since so many projects will undoubtfully require many and long phases of development, but the latest article seems to indicate that it won't be too far off for the first areas to start prep work within the year, so maybe this will be full gear in a few years and we see the first supertalls starting as well the Shenwan towers will probably have better chances to come soon though, since there is no demolition needed and the plots stand empty already.
__________________

TowerVerre:) liked this post
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #69
city of the future
city of the future
 
city of the future's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto / Saguenay
Posts: 1,147
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elster View Post
I would erase Rome entirely for projects like that
Quality over quantity my friend, What was built in Rome will outlast anything built here
city of the future no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #70
Faisal Shourov
Bleach lover
 
Faisal Shourov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto/Dhaka
Posts: 2,125
Likes (Received): 4250

Quote:
Originally Posted by city of the future View Post
Quality over quantity my friend, What was built in Rome will outlast anything built here
You don't have time to worry about 'quality' when you have to provide home to 15 million people. I'm sure a modern megatall would have a better foundation than eon old lowrise brick houses
Faisal Shourov no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2014, 06:31 AM   #71
mthmchris
Registered User
 
mthmchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 97
Likes (Received): 52

Baishizhou is the beating heart of central Nanshan. It just baffles me why they feel the need to erase the entire 'village' (for those that don't know Shenzhen, just dense urban areas, really) off the map.

Want to build a few supertalls and need to demolish some nongminfang to do so? Obviously worthwhile - e.g. Kingkey's Xiasha project. In such a case, the development would add to the existing neighborhood.

Quote:
You don't have time to worry about 'quality' when you have to provide home to 15 million people.
Urban villages house over 60% of Shenzhen's population, and by some estimates more. Low rise (i.e. 5-8 stories) neighborhoods can handle an incredible population if suitably dense.

The lower east side and upper west side of Manhattan have roughly similar population density. Chelsea/ Kensington in London is more or less the same population density as Shenzhen's Futian district. And how many more highrises does Futian hold?

If you want to house 15 million people, many of them poorer migrants from the countryside, the correct way to do so is not to build a city of gated highrises and superhighways. Take a piece of land, build a swath of tightly packed 8 story buildings with storefronts, and have trams and buses cut through it. Suddenly, you'll have created a vibrant, interesting, walkable urban space in a fraction of the time and cost that these 'redevelopment' projects require.
__________________
"It may be that we have become so feckless as a people that we no longer care how things do work, but only what kind of quick, easy outer impression they give. If so, there is little hope for our cities or probably for much else in our society. But I do not think this is so."

WesselKornel liked this post
mthmchris no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2014, 11:04 AM   #72
z0rg
fok julle naaiers
 
z0rg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Madrid
Posts: 24,723
Likes (Received): 15902

Those villages belong to China's third world past, hence they are supposed to be gone. Many of those villages are slums with Chinese characteristics. And we haven't slums in any decently developed city, do we? You just can't retain Shenzhen 1990's shithole urbanism in the Shenzhen of 2025. It would be ridiculous. Preserve the landmarks and historical buildings, burn everything else in case they are not suitable for a wealthy society, locals deserve something better. And yep, give me skyscrapers instead.
__________________
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

TowerVerre:), KillerZavatar liked this post
z0rg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2014, 12:07 PM   #73
mthmchris
Registered User
 
mthmchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 97
Likes (Received): 52

What a blatantly absurd statement. Slums are characterized by things like lack of a functioning sewage system, clean water, electricity, etc. Urban villages may be unsightly but have little to none of the social or sanitation issues present in an Indian or African slum.

If you don't see the value of dense, heavily populated, walkable, mixed use areas, you simply don't understand cities. Go live in Ordos - there's plenty of monolithic skyscraper-in-the-park masterplanning going on there.
__________________
"It may be that we have become so feckless as a people that we no longer care how things do work, but only what kind of quick, easy outer impression they give. If so, there is little hope for our cities or probably for much else in our society. But I do not think this is so."
mthmchris no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2014, 01:26 PM   #74
z0rg
fok julle naaiers
 
z0rg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Madrid
Posts: 24,723
Likes (Received): 15902

I never said I support over-planned masterplans. Of course China hasn't the type of slums you find in the so called democratic countries. That's why I'm talking about slums with Chinese characteristics, where poor Chinese urban residents live far better than their Indian or Latin American counterparts.

You just can't preserve non historical urban "heritage" of a poor country in a high income society, it's simply crazy. And given that they are not precisely ancient hutongs, they would never attract any kind of cultural, touristic or commercial interest as well. You either redevelop those slums or eventually they'll become insecure and decadent ghettos. Burn them all, redevelop them, and get the city Shenzheners deserve, a rich, modern and confortable metropolis.
__________________
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

kunming tiger liked this post
z0rg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2014, 03:31 PM   #75
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,497
Likes (Received): 6878

Much of Guangdong will continue to be covered by urban villages, there's really no reason to be so apocalyptic about the loss of one in a very prime location. Just in Nanshan there are several other huge villages. And Bao'an, Longgang, and Dongguan are absolutely carpeted with them. I love the urban form of them but losing one every few years when there are thousands of them doesn't strike me as a huge problem, especially when it's for a top grade skyscrapers redevelopment.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2014, 10:05 AM   #76
mthmchris
Registered User
 
mthmchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 97
Likes (Received): 52

The problem is not in the destruction per se, but rather the totality of it and the lack of imagination in what's replacing it.

We all love highrises, but there's a certain value in a neighborhood having a mix of older buildings and newer development, would you not agree?

New York is obviously a prime example of this - yet even in a city like Hong Kong which doesn't have the benefit of inheriting gorgeous old buildings, a newly-minted glass skyscraper can share a block with a wet market. And that's ok. That's what makes a city.

Older buildings are important not because we need to 'preserve' them, like some sort of perverse collection of museum pieces (the idea of historical preservation in a city with a history of 40 years smacks of absurdity anyhow). They're important because it's an economically sustainable way to house small businesses and the urban poor.

Implicit in your argument is that the Chinese people are getting an 'upgrading'. But who's getting the upgrade? The population of Baishizhou is over 100,000 people. Where are you going to put them? In the highrises? Sillyness. They could never afford it. They'll move into another urban village, one of the many that BarbaricManchurian listed, father away from the city center with less economic opportunity, which will get even more crowded. Meanwhile, the static development that replaces it, if designed poorly, runs the risk of becoming yet another Chinese skyscraper graveyard - easy on the camera, hard on the economy, and bad for the city.
__________________
"It may be that we have become so feckless as a people that we no longer care how things do work, but only what kind of quick, easy outer impression they give. If so, there is little hope for our cities or probably for much else in our society. But I do not think this is so."
mthmchris no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2014, 06:42 PM   #77
kunming tiger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: kunming
Posts: 7,029
Likes (Received): 1657

Quote:
Originally Posted by city of the future View Post
Quality over quantity my friend, What was built in Rome will outlast anything built here
Chinese civilization has lasted for thousands of years long after Roman civilization crumbled into dust.

Most of your QUALITY Roman buildings have been in ruins for hundreds of years. How old do you think the Great Wall is ? At least that is still standing and in use in parts.

When you build something in your country that outlasts the Great Wall then you can lecture the Chinese on quality
kunming tiger no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2014, 06:59 PM   #78
kunming tiger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: kunming
Posts: 7,029
Likes (Received): 1657

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Those villages belong to China's third world past, hence they are supposed to be gone. Many of those villages are slums with Chinese characteristics. And we haven't slums in any decently developed city, do we? You just can't retain Shenzhen 1990's shithole urbanism in the Shenzhen of 2025. It would be ridiculous. Preserve the landmarks and historical buildings, burn everything else in case they are not suitable for a wealthy society, locals deserve something better. And yep, give me skyscrapers instead.
Totally agree with this argument, the people arguing for the retention of the Urban Village to preserve the character of the city are talking right out of their backsides. They don't have to live in them and put up with the inconvenience of a poorly planned grossly outdated method of living. It's cramped lacking in green spaces wholly unsuited to the 21 st century. I go into Chinese homes every week and there is a world of difference between a Modern High rises and their manicured gardens and underground parking and the old Commie Blocks wit leaky roofs, the lack of parking spaces that force locals to double park their cars at night on the streets and sidewalks even and the like. The only people that don't get out are those who can't.
__________________

TowerVerre:) liked this post
kunming tiger no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2014, 08:42 PM   #79
KøbenhavnK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 384
Likes (Received): 354

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Chinese civilization has lasted for thousands of years long after Roman civilization crumbled into dust.

Most of your QUALITY Roman buildings have been in ruins for hundreds of years. How old do you think the Great Wall is ? At least that is still standing and in use in parts.

When you build something in your country that outlasts the Great Wall then you can lecture the Chinese on quality
Euro bashing?

This is a very wierd discussion. Yes the Great Wall is (probably) the greatest building project in history.

But how does Roman buildings make it greater?

By the way Roman civilization didn't crumble. The empire did.
KøbenhavnK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 7th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #80
city of the future
city of the future
 
city of the future's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto / Saguenay
Posts: 1,147
Likes (Received): 248

Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Chinese civilization has lasted for thousands of years long after Roman civilization crumbled into dust.

Most of your QUALITY Roman buildings have been in ruins for hundreds of years. How old do you think the Great Wall is ? At least that is still standing and in use in parts.

When you build something in your country that outlasts the Great Wall then you can lecture the Chinese on quality
Again, I was just commenting on a negative remark made by someone. Its pretty offensive to wipe out entire Rome over a copy paste project such as this. An when I said outlast, I meant anything in Shenzhen, not all of China
city of the future no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
megatall

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu