2013 Election. Preferred Prime Minister. - Page 3

Mornnb · February 1st, 2013, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planks & Sticks

So just which one is the truth or is there a lot more to it?

The truth is the government has been facing a loss of corporate and GST revenues since the GFC. Which is still below pre-GFC levels. They've had to reduce spending significantly to produce a promised surplus.
Here's the history of taxes and spending since the early 90s.

Kelli · February 1st, 2013, 06:43 AM

What do the blue diamond and green triangle represent?

OneirosNate · February 1st, 2013, 07:16 AM

Leprechaun discoveries.

Danubis · February 1st, 2013, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelli

What do the blue diamond and green triangle represent?

budgets?

Arreis · February 1st, 2013, 07:44 AM

If the graph is a bit old, they could be projected figures.

OneirosNate · February 1st, 2013, 09:04 AM

Yeah, the asterixes next to certain years screams "projected" to me.

Samuel77 · February 1st, 2013, 09:50 AM

what having 2014-15 isnt enough to scream projected to you?

Planks & Sticks · February 1st, 2013, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mornnb

The truth is the government has been facing a loss of corporate and GST revenues since the GFC. Which is still below pre-GFC levels. They've had to reduce spending significantly to produce a promised surplus.
Here's the history of taxes and spending since the early 90s.

I guess it's debatable as to whether it was a good cause or not at the beginning with the stimulus spending as shown by the big spike in 2008-9 portion of the graph. But reading the chart above, the spending has dropped significantly since then and gone below what Howard's annual expenditure was while in office.

What's the debt like? I presume the stimulus spending has knocked the debt level up quite a bit, but not enough to lose the AAA ratings. With the current low spending, is debt still climbing enough for it to be a significant concern for the well being of the country's economy ("significant" line drawn depending on how others define it I guess).

Skyrazer · February 1st, 2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planks & Sticks

What's the debt like? I presume the stimulus spending has knocked the debt level up quite a bit, but not enough to lose the AAA ratings. With the current low spending, is debt still climbing enough for it to be a significant concern for the well being of the country's economy ("significant" line drawn depending on how others define it I guess).

See list of public/govt debt-to-GDP ratios here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt

As can be seen, we have very low public/govt debt levels, especially when compared to every other developed/western nation. At sub 20-30%, Aus' debt levels are quite paltry and easily manageable at the moment and should be quite a ways away from threatening our AAA rating. Whenever the opposition puff their chest over public/govt debt, it's nothing but hot air when put into perspective.

What Aus needs to worry about is its household/private debt, but no politician wants to go there as that's a whole different cattle of fish....

Erektion · February 2nd, 2013, 04:42 AM

Can anyone please confirm what happens to a 'donkey' vote? Ie. submitting a blank vote in protest? I recall reading once that a donkey vote goes in favour of the current government but hope that information is wrong.
Quite frankly they (the two main parties) both sicken me and I find there is no real option for the intelligent, logical and forward thinking voter.
I am considering drawing in another box to tick and writing alongside "there is currently nobody or party worth voting for" I have never considered this before but quite frankly our options are rather thin on the ground

LanceDriver · February 2nd, 2013, 05:03 AM

^ A donkey vote is when you write 1 to x from the top down which means that, yes, it will go to the incumbent. Drawing a box and writing something like "cockhead" is actually an informal vote and goes to no one. Other than making you feel good it has no other effect than to go to the informal tally, which, if large enough, could at least make the candidates of the seat look bad.

I do wonder what would happen if over 50% of votes in an electorate are informal. A bi-election due to no result? Anyway, I don't think anyone important sees your little protest but I will be doing it. We should start a Facebook group and promote it as a form of civil disobedience.

Erektion · February 2nd, 2013, 05:22 AM

Thanks LD for clarifying.
Funny thing is we are probably quite different in many ways and yet we both are considering doing the same thing. Many people I've spoken to are also considering the same, and at the end of the day it might just be these many little protests that sends a big message

NoshowwithoutPunch · February 2nd, 2013, 11:49 AM

I want a Rudd govt with Turnbull replacing Swan as Treasurer. Best of otherwise poor bunch.

NoshowwithoutPunch · February 2nd, 2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyrazer

See list of public/govt debt-to-GDP ratios here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt

As can be seen, we have very low public/govt debt levels, especially when compared to every other developed/western nation. At sub 20-30%, Aus' debt levels are quite paltry and easily manageable at the moment and should be quite a ways away from threatening our AAA rating. Whenever the opposition puff their chest over public/govt debt, it's nothing but hot air when put into perspective.

What Aus needs to worry about is its household/private debt, but no politician wants to go there as that's a whole different cattle of fish....

Agree, govt debt is no big deal. The overall level of welfare and restriction on economic activity is though.

It is the quality, not Quantity of spending that counts.

L2 · February 2nd, 2013, 12:00 PM

I'm with Tony Abbott, the only sane, rational, sensible and intelligent candidate out of the few presently with their hand up to be prime minister.

Lets see as to other candidates and potential/former candidates:

- Gillard needs to be deported to Indonesia, permanently

- Malcolm Turnbull is also an excellent candidate for PM, but his hat isn't in the ring at the moment. Would also vote for him

- Mark Latham would've been hilarious due to his mental issues but otherwise a joke (as much of one as Gillard

)

- Kim Beazley might have got my vote if he was running for election now and I was a hater of Tony Abbott personally - would have a chance now but when he ran Lord John Howard

was far too powerful

- Kevin Rudd has had his chance to lead, was a bit ordinary at it and most of the sentiment for bringing him back seems to be out of sympathy relating to how the ALP essentially removed him from his job unfairly

The L2 prediction is of a Liberal/National coalition government being formed as of September 14, with enough seats to cement them in for two terms minimum but still enough to keep pandering desperately to marginal electorates.

Gillard will do it Brumby-style and leave the parliament after not being able to get enough seats to form government, and retreated to private life in Altona with the "first bloke", possibly with the odd "visit" from John Brumby when the bloke is away (note the below picture). We'll all just know of her as a bad memory, but will still remember Kevin Rudd for some of his positive characteristics.

L2 who is one of the voters who could save the nation

MelbourneOnTheRise · February 2nd, 2013, 04:43 PM

L2's political predictions, 60% of the time it works, every time.

Didn't you predict in the entire leadup to the 2010 Victorian election that Failyou would be the best most infallible premier Victoria had ever seen? Are you aware that even Liberal MPs are calling him One Term Ted?

See the Liberal party is great at its ideological roots, but when you elect 95th trimester-aborted-fetuses like Abbott and Baillieu (neither of which are identifiable humans) as leaders you just look ridiculous.

Give the centre a viable candidate like Turnbull or Matthew Guy and they will turn out in droves.

Here's a counter prediction for you. Let's assume that L2 get's it right on the election result like he did in 2010. But by 2016 when the next election comes along, I'm willing to bet Prime Minister Abbott will be about as popular as Premier Baillieu circa 2013, making him One Term Tony. Is that really the best the Liberal party can do? Win an election, but get turfed out at the first chance when the small-target strategy wares out and the public realizes that a dud candidate has snuck into office?

Wouldn't it be better for the whole political system if each party put up candidates who were going to take RISKS by telling the whole truth about their party's values and policy agenda, rather than these bland nonentities whose main skill is to obfuscate and avoid scrutiny long enough to sneak into office, only later to deliver nasty surprises because nobody ever got a straight answer out of them before the election?

Leesome · February 3rd, 2013, 01:02 AM

Oh dear god. The ads have already started...

Brizer · February 3rd, 2013, 01:22 AM

Noshow: fyi - the expression is 'kettle of fish'.

Originally it used to be "a pretty kettle of fish!" meaning 'an awkward situation'.

Which, for me, sums up this whole political situation as I have a feeling we're going to end up in 'a right pickle!' all over again.*

*especially if Mr Abbott tries to turn back the clock if he wins power.
The only consolation would be that he maintains his tradition of changing his mind when he sniffs a change in the wind and changes his mind again, again & again. That, of course, doesn't mean he'd lied, because in certain sections of our community it seems only when Labor people change their mind with changing circumstances, is it lying. No, that would mean he acted like a 'true statesman' and acted honourably in the best interests of Abb...er...Australia.

Don't you just love politics to bits?!

***Dilaz89*** · February 3rd, 2013, 01:23 AM

JG for being intelligent, process driven, goal oriented and for surviving multiple attacks from all sections of the media and politics. The economy is in great shape and reforms under her government will give Australia a head start in to a rapidly evolving future. I can only see the good work Labor has done reversed if Abbott wins. Australia will once again be the backwater of the western world, I fear. I could stomach Turnbull, although he was a terrible as opposition leader and is a one-man band, much like Colin Barnett.

GaryinSydney · February 3rd, 2013, 01:45 AM

Interesting to see how divergent all of our views are here - especially in relation to Gillard.

I personally find her abhorrent - her knifing of Kevin Rudd, her being in the pocket of unions, her hypocrisy on her anti-same-sex marriage stance, her awful accent & droning voice, her hairstyle even ffs!

Not to even mention her dodgy political opportunism in regards to running a minority Govt - the influence of the Greens with her change on introducing the carbon tax etc, her support for the dodgy Peter Slipper and corrupt Craig Thomson.......I won't even bother commenting on her "border protection" failures.

She has to go.

View Poll Results: Preferred PM
Labour under Gillard	42	29.17%
Labour under Rudd	21	14.58%
Labour under another minister	7	4.86%
Liberal under Abbott	18	12.50%
Liberal under Turnbull	41	28.47%
Liberal under another minister	2	1.39%
Im voting for a minor party	13	9.03%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

February 2nd, 2013, 12:00 PM	#55
L2 Needs an avatar Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Western Melbourne Posts: 4,279 Likes (Received): 18	I'm with Tony Abbott, the only sane, rational, sensible and intelligent candidate out of the few presently with their hand up to be prime minister. Lets see as to other candidates and potential/former candidates: - Gillard needs to be deported to Indonesia, permanently - Malcolm Turnbull is also an excellent candidate for PM, but his hat isn't in the ring at the moment. Would also vote for him - Mark Latham would've been hilarious due to his mental issues but otherwise a joke (as much of one as Gillard ) - Kim Beazley might have got my vote if he was running for election now and I was a hater of Tony Abbott personally - would have a chance now but when he ran Lord John Howard was far too powerful - Kevin Rudd has had his chance to lead, was a bit ordinary at it and most of the sentiment for bringing him back seems to be out of sympathy relating to how the ALP essentially removed him from his job unfairly The L2 prediction is of a Liberal/National coalition government being formed as of September 14, with enough seats to cement them in for two terms minimum but still enough to keep pandering desperately to marginal electorates. Gillard will do it Brumby-style and leave the parliament after not being able to get enough seats to form government, and retreated to private life in Altona with the "first bloke", possibly with the odd "visit" from John Brumby when the bloke is away (note the below picture). We'll all just know of her as a bad memory, but will still remember Kevin Rudd for some of his positive characteristics. L2 who is one of the voters who could save the nation __________________ ""Being a bogan is not a bad thing. We don't follow other people's lead, we do our own thing." - Mother of Cassie van den Dungen

February 3rd, 2013, 01:22 AM	#58
Brizer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,870 Likes (Received): 133	Noshow: fyi - the expression is 'kettle of fish'. Originally it used to be "a pretty kettle of fish!" meaning 'an awkward situation'. Which, for me, sums up this whole political situation as I have a feeling we're going to end up in 'a right pickle!' all over again.* especially if Mr Abbott tries to turn back the clock if he wins power. The only consolation would be that he maintains his tradition of changing his mind when he sniffs a change in the wind and changes his mind again, again & again. That, of course, doesn't mean he'd lied, because in certain sections of our community it seems only when Labor people change their mind with changing circumstances, is it lying. No, that would mean he acted like a 'true statesman' and acted honourably in the best interests of Abb...er...Australia. Don't you just love politics to bits?! Last edited by Brizer; February 3rd, 2013 at 01:31 AM.*

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February 1st, 2013, 06:43 AM	#42
Kelli Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Perth Posts: 5,511	What do the blue diamond and green triangle represent?

February 1st, 2013, 07:16 AM	#43
OneirosNate Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 536 Likes (Received): 45	Leprechaun discoveries.

February 1st, 2013, 07:44 AM	#45
Arreis Especially heinous Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Toowoomba Posts: 437 Likes (Received): 224	If the graph is a bit old, they could be projected figures.

February 1st, 2013, 09:04 AM	#46
OneirosNate Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 536 Likes (Received): 45	Yeah, the asterixes next to certain years screams "projected" to me.

February 1st, 2013, 09:50 AM	#47
Samuel77 Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: omnipresent Posts: 1,311 Likes (Received): 179	what having 2014-15 isnt enough to scream projected to you?

February 2nd, 2013, 04:42 AM	#50
Erektion Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 1,510 Likes (Received): 52	Can anyone please confirm what happens to a 'donkey' vote? Ie. submitting a blank vote in protest? I recall reading once that a donkey vote goes in favour of the current government but hope that information is wrong. Quite frankly they (the two main parties) both sicken me and I find there is no real option for the intelligent, logical and forward thinking voter. I am considering drawing in another box to tick and writing alongside "there is currently nobody or party worth voting for" I have never considered this before but quite frankly our options are rather thin on the ground

February 2nd, 2013, 05:03 AM	#51
LanceDriver 70's porn star Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 6,740	^ A donkey vote is when you write 1 to x from the top down which means that, yes, it will go to the incumbent. Drawing a box and writing something like "cockhead" is actually an informal vote and goes to no one. Other than making you feel good it has no other effect than to go to the informal tally, which, if large enough, could at least make the candidates of the seat look bad. I do wonder what would happen if over 50% of votes in an electorate are informal. A bi-election due to no result? Anyway, I don't think anyone important sees your little protest but I will be doing it. We should start a Facebook group and promote it as a form of civil disobedience.

February 2nd, 2013, 05:22 AM	#52
Erektion Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location, Location Posts: 1,510 Likes (Received): 52	Thanks LD for clarifying. Funny thing is we are probably quite different in many ways and yet we both are considering doing the same thing. Many people I've spoken to are also considering the same, and at the end of the day it might just be these many little protests that sends a big message

February 3rd, 2013, 01:02 AM	#57
Leesome Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Back in Brissie Posts: 1,029 Likes (Received): 20	Oh dear god. The ads have already started...

February 3rd, 2013, 01:45 AM	#60
GaryinSydney Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 966 Likes (Received): 44	Interesting to see how divergent all of our views are here - especially in relation to Gillard. I personally find her abhorrent - her knifing of Kevin Rudd, her being in the pocket of unions, her hypocrisy on her anti-same-sex marriage stance, her awful accent & droning voice, her hairstyle even ffs! Not to even mention her dodgy political opportunism in regards to running a minority Govt - the influence of the Greens with her change on introducing the carbon tax etc, her support for the dodgy Peter Slipper and corrupt Craig Thomson.......I won't even bother commenting on her "border protection" failures. She has to go.