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Old February 19th, 2015, 07:20 PM   #541
NatFan9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baseball1992 View Post
They should just have a gentlemens agreement not to screw up the downward spiral of WTC ever.

Ever? That's taking it too far. It's going to have to get screwed up eventually, otherwise Lower Manhattan's growth would be stunted. I do, however think no supertall should break ground in Lower Manhattan until January 1, 2020. 2 WTC should be topped out by then, if not well on its way to completion and we'll be able to see what the whole complex looks like before anything else disrupts the look.
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Old February 19th, 2015, 07:23 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatFan9 View Post
Ever? That's taking it too far. It's going to have to get screwed up eventually, otherwise Lower Manhattan's growth would be stunted. I do, however think no supertall should break ground in Lower Manhattan until January 1, 2020. 2 WTC should be topped out by then, if not well on its way to completion and we'll be able to see what the whole complex looks like before anything else disrupts the look.
I'm just kidding around. I'm just making connections to the "gentlemens agreement" on not going over 1776 ft because of 1WTC. Both agreements would be absurd.
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Old February 19th, 2015, 08:11 PM   #543
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I do take aesthetic issue with this tower as far as what we've seen of it: at its current height-to-width ratio, poised opposite the memorial from 1 WTC, it creates an awkward, off-kilter plateau. It would be better, as I stated before, either taller or shorter; incorporating some setbacks or other features that relate to the WTC towers; incorporating a crown or taper relating it to the Golden Era FiDi skyscrapers.

BUT, Silverstein and the PA have had nearly 15 years to get the WTC complex built; expecting developers to defer building tall for a minute longer (for aesthetic reasons, no less) would be absurd. Frankly, while 4 and 1 WTC have turned out well so far, for the whole complex has come to represent not freedom or defiance of evil, but compromise and bureaucratic mismanagement. I don't want them to be the defining feature of lower Manhattan -- I'd rather the WTC was overtaken by soaring towers, driven by free market forces, an assertion that at least some of us have been able to climb out of the post-9/11 mire.

Also, I can't speak to how it might or might not affect the office market, but as long as this isn't just another hollow piggy bank for foreign currencies like the 57th St. towers, a residential/mixed-user can only be good here. The plaza is a beautiful memorial, but it's also kind of an anti-urban space, in an already often lifeless area. More residential and retail means more life.
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Old February 20th, 2015, 03:44 AM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatFan9 View Post
Ever? That's taking it too far. It's going to have to get screwed up eventually, otherwise Lower Manhattan's growth would be stunted. I do, however think no supertall should break ground in Lower Manhattan until January 1, 2020. 2 WTC should be topped out by then, if not well on its way to completion and we'll be able to see what the whole complex looks like before anything else disrupts the look.

Why should other projects be hindered due to the WTC's failure to fully build itself?

I understand your desire to see the whole complex by itself but the world doesn't wait around.
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Old February 21st, 2015, 02:27 AM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatFan9 View Post
I agree with droneriot, these people are not likely to be office employees. And I don't think the type of development it will spur won't do much to help the office market. Even still, I mostly don't like the height. If they were building skyscrapers by SSC's height definition, like the original building proposal was supposed to be, Id be fine. But this is a supertall that will rival 1WTC. It's just too much right now.
True, but I was thinking more of the fact that a greater residential development will usually bring more restaurants/entertainment even when talking about towers (such as this one) that will only be partly inhabited, since it will most likely be an investment tool such as most extremely high-end developments.

In that sense it would be a more desirable area, which goes into the previous logic. Kind of how midtown has a better office/residential development proportion, which in turn makes it more attractive for office locations.

Then again there might be other factors to take into consideration, so not so sure after all
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 01:02 AM   #546
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02.18.15

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Old February 22nd, 2015, 02:52 AM   #547
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So this thing is actually happening soon?
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:43 PM   #548
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looks what's been posted on the site! Wow. This thing is imminent

Michael Shvo's Enormous FiDi Tower Is Beginning To Rise
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/0...ng_to_rise.php



Quote:
A tipster informs us that work started this weekend at 125 Greenwich Street, the future site of the 1,356-square-foot tower that Michael Shvo (along with Bizzi Partners) is developing, which, going by the renderings, looks like it's going to be a tall, slim, completely unembellished glass rectangle.

The 77-story Rafael Vinoly-designed building will be Downtown's tallest residential tower, and will stand only 23 feet shorter than the city's record-holder, 432 Park Avenue. There is no targeted completion yet as of yet for the ambitious project, which will contain a total of 128 apartments, including 10 5,300-square-foot full-floor penthouses and a 10,600-square-foot duplex penthouse.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:50 PM   #549
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funny how that massing doesn't display some of the qualities described in the hashtags.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:53 PM   #550
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I really hope we don't have to rehash this argument...

Everyone just take a deep breath and avert your gaze if you must.

I can't take "432P, Pt. II"
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:57 PM   #551
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 10:58 PM   #552
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I wonder what the deal is with this filing. It says 841 ft and shows Svho's new partner Bizzi partners in the application. It also notes a partial permit job issued as recently as 2/15/2015

Maybe, the Shvo man decided to go shorter?? dunno. I'm sure some of you would be ecstatic with that. Cheers.

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http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01


Zoning Document filed Dec 2014
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:10 PM   #553
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that height is consistent with the renderings I posted the other day from Witkoff
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:20 PM   #554
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Maybe they lopped off a few Russian oligarch buyers?


(It would be nice to get better renders of this latest Viñoly stick)
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:24 PM   #555
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It seems that Shvo decided to make this tower shvorter. I think it looks shvokay.
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Old February 23rd, 2015, 11:33 PM   #556
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Lex and others: why did the Shvo man shorten the tower? Is he really caving to the idea that there's a luxury glut?

In any event, ALL major cities in the developed world would be going gaga over an 841-foot tower.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 12:19 AM   #557
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Um... yay? I'm actually surprised Shvo actually went ahead and shortened it. Coulld it really be because of the WTC? It's nothing special, but it's okay. I'm just a bit sad that an opprotunity to have another supertall in NYC was bypassed. I wonder if people will think this is part of the WTC because now it actually contributes to the famous WTC curve.

I was hoping that Rafel Vinoly would make the design distinct enough so that people wouldn't think it's part of the WTC.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 12:24 AM   #558
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I believe 101 TriBeCa was also shortened. Both towers are very close to the WTC.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 12:29 AM   #559
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I'm sure if it is indeed shortened, it has nothing to do with deference to the WTC, and everything to do with projections for the ultra-luxury market. With so many projects in the works, no certainty about just how deep that market goes, and (let's be honest) the collapse of the rouble, Shvo's probably thinking "better safe than sorry" here.
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Old February 24th, 2015, 01:40 AM   #560
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I don't think it has been necessarily shortened. Developers sometimes use old permits for new jobs. Just have a look at some other New York towers (f.e. 30 HY).

That massing model sure does not look promising though.
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