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Old February 14th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1
ed110220
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Unusual solutions to weaving

Two recent recent upgrades to interchanges in South Africa got me thinking about solutions to weaving problems where exits are close together. It's an unusual one I haven't seen elsewhere and consists of adding a second bridge and ramp so that traffic can enter on the "wrong" side in order not to have to weave across in order to leave at the next exit.

The first one was built at N2 exit 5 (De Waal Drive exit) in Cape Town where the M5 is concurrent with the N2 for a few hundred metres before splitting off again. This caused severe weaving problems as southbound traffic from the M3 had to weave across traffic continuing on the N2 if it wanted to continue on the M3.

A second bridge from the M3 has been built connecting directly to lane 5 of the N2.

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The second is at the Elands interchange in Johannesburg where a second bridge has been built to carry northbound N3 traffic that is going to exit at the Geldenhuys interchange so that it connects directly to lane 1.

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Old February 14th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #2
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Even I have heard of the infamousness of the first junction. Has the bridge helped?
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Old February 14th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #3
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Even I have heard of the infamousness of the first junction. Has the bridge helped?
It definitely helps though it doesn't completely overcome the inherent limitations of having two interchanges so close together and the road squashed between the hospital and mountain.

Is there anything similar elsewhere? Any other solutions?
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Old February 15th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #4
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There seem to be a lot of U-turns on Brazilian motorways
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Old February 15th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #5
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There seem to be a lot of U-turns on Brazilian motorways
How does that help prevent weaving?

Another one I know of that has a serious weaving problem is the M4/M5 Almondsbury interchange North of Bristol in the UK, but nothing has been done to improve it.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #6
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U-turns worsen weaving. Traffic enters from a right-in, right-out intersection / ramp and makes a U-turn a couple of hundred meters down the road to go the other way. Which means they have to cross all traffic lanes in a short distance.

U-turn interchanges are therefor not suitable for high volume motorways, but are frequently used in Asia and Latin America. I think a U-turn, how well designed it may be, is too substandard to be considered motorway standard. Some are basically even elongated roundabouts.
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Old February 15th, 2013, 10:30 PM   #7
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U-turns worsen weaving. Traffic enters from a right-in, right-out intersection / ramp and makes a U-turn a couple of hundred meters down the road to go the other way. Which means they have to cross all traffic lanes in a short distance.

U-turn interchanges are therefor not suitable for high volume motorways, but are frequently used in Asia and Latin America. I think a U-turn, how well designed it may be, is too substandard to be considered motorway standard. Some are basically even elongated roundabouts.
Ah I see, well I've never seen anything like that before.
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Old February 16th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed110220 View Post
Two recent recent upgrades to interchanges in South Africa got me thinking about solutions to weaving problems where exits are close together. It's an unusual one I haven't seen elsewhere and consists of adding a second bridge and ramp so that traffic can enter on the "wrong" side in order not to have to weave across in order to leave at the next exit.
Very popular solution in Zurich area:
http://goo.gl/maps/WHbJ3

Two extraramps - City -> Winterthur (left to right) and City -> Airport:
http://goo.gl/maps/1Phwl

http://goo.gl/maps/DLSy4
http://goo.gl/maps/JiaCf
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Old February 16th, 2013, 08:41 PM   #9
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I drove there numerous times and I had no idea that was the point of those splits.
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Old February 16th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #10
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Yes, because this doesn't fit there:
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Old February 16th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #11
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I drove there numerous times and I had no idea that was the point of those splits.
If you need the next exit, you take the right road, if you continue on the same road, you take the left one.

Minimizing weaving!
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Old February 17th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #12
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Unusual solutions to weaving
Are there any other solutions to weaving anyway?
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Old February 17th, 2013, 09:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post

If you need the next exit, you take the right road, if you continue on the same road, you take the left one.

Minimizing weaving!
So you weave twice instead of once?
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Old February 17th, 2013, 11:18 AM   #14
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So you weave twice instead of once?
No, you never have to wave driving through Zürich Ost-Nord intersections. People still do because they try to get faster
They should make a solid line that people go left around can't switch to the right side afterwards. Other than for these idiots, you actually don't have to change more than one lane in any connection.

For me this not an unusual solution at all. Is is used all over the country for years:
Zürich Nord and Ost are prime examples already posted but they are also here..

Zug Blegi:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=47.19884,...01929&t=h&z=16

Zürich Brunau:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=47.35052,...09645&t=h&z=17


Another example how to solve that problem:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=46.953133...01929&t=h&z=16
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Old February 17th, 2013, 01:47 PM   #15
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So you weave twice instead of once?
Example from Zürich Brunau.

Why change two lanes on short distance...














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Old February 17th, 2013, 01:48 PM   #16
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...when you can drive straight ahead without weaving?
















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Old February 17th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #17
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That's pretty cool
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Old February 17th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
Another example how to solve that problem:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=46.953133...01929&t=h&z=16
You mean this road?
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Old February 17th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
People still do because they try to get faster
They should make a solid line that people go left around can't switch to the right side afterwards. Other than for these idiots, you actually don't have to change more than one lane in any connection.
Why are they idiots because they are not stupid sheep following the herd? Weaving causes jams exactly by those people who are afraid to weave at later moment and try to squeeze in at the beginning braking hard to do so instead of keeping a steady pace and slowly making space.

They should definitely not, a motorway is a road where you are supposed to be able to overtake people and drive at your own speed, not be stuck behind granps or some blonde with the traffic skills of a potatoe. I hate traffic calming ( eg. 80 or 100 km/h zones with cars travelling at minimal speed differences), traffic should be dynamic...

The solution is a win win, scared people go the easy way to minimize weaving who'd otherwise cause traffic jams, while the left lane stays for those who squeeze in without slowing others down!

The idiots are people who want to weave at the absolute earliest moment and cause traffic jams by slowing down to do so instead of keeping a steady pace and weaving at a much later moment, this joint:
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.946295...71.05,,0,-3.86
is famous for the daily weaving jams, while its 2+2+1 lane going into 3+2 lanes, because all the stupid sheep on the roads immediately start weaving the moment the road comes together, instead they should make use of the space, keep left a bit longer, and keep the speed higher. There is 1.5 km to weave yet people want to do it in the first 200m, those are the idiots who cause traffic jams every day.


I think knp. Ridderster has some pretty unusual weaving solutions:
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Last edited by snowdog; February 17th, 2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old February 17th, 2013, 07:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
You mean this road?
Exactly, it's the same principle just that it undertakes the other lane instead of a bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Why are they idiots because they are not stupid sheep following the herd? Weaving causes jams exactly by those people who are afraid to weave at later moment and try to squeeze in at the beginning braking hard to do so instead of keeping a steady pace and slowly making space.
No, the try to overtake even the motorway is already full. This just adds additional disturbance to the system, people deaccelerating and accelerating all the time reduces the capacity.
Quote:
They should definitely not, a motorway is a road where you are supposed to be able to overtake people and drive at your own speed, not be stuck behind granps or some blonde with the traffic skills of a potatoe. I hate traffic calming ( eg. 80 or 100 km/h zones with cars travelling at minimal speed differences), traffic should be dynamic...
Not at full capacity. In the case that traffic is at full capacity of a motorway, steady speed at 80 - 100 km/h results in the best throughput and minimal jams.
Quote:
The solution is a win win, scared people go the easy way to minimize weaving who'd otherwise cause traffic jams, while the left lane stays for those who squeeze in without slowing others down!
No they slow down everyone, because the need to squeeze into a lane that is already full. The one behind will need to slow down.
Quote:
The idiots are people who want to weave at the absolute earliest moment and cause traffic jams by slowing down to do so instead of keeping a steady pace and weaving at a much later moment, this joint:
https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.946295...71.05,,0,-3.86
is famous for the daily weaving jams, while its 2+2+1 lane going into 3+2 lanes, because all the stupid sheep on the roads immediately start weaving the moment the road comes together, instead they should make use of the space, keep left a bit longer, and keep the speed higher. There is 1.5 km to weave yet people want to do it in the first 200m, those are the idiots who cause traffic jams every day.
You should use the lane to your direction as soon as your destination is signed, in case there is a jam in your direction you wont become an obstacle for people traveling to other directions.
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