daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 2nd, 2013, 12:47 AM   #201
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

Bonus: Paris of the north (Part 3)

Dabrowski square:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...45330861_o.jpg

Warsaw philharmonic

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...43883162_n.jpg

Zgoda street

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...40995028_o.jpg

More to come...

Next post: Market hall at Kazimierz the great square
__________________
N er det lenge siden 1952!

smugler, Rombi, Urbanista1, MikeN, Highcliff liked this post
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 2nd, 2013, 01:52 PM   #202
HelenaWojtczak
Researcher and author
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HASTINGS
Posts: 45
Likes (Received): 13

Hello.. I received a message from the site saying that a reply had been posted to my message of yesterday, but I cannot find any reply. Sorry, I am new to this site, maybe I am looking in the wrong place?
HelenaWojtczak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 13th, 2013, 11:09 PM   #203
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

The unique Kierbedz bridge


https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...34041786_o.jpg
__________________
N er det lenge siden 1952!

smugler, Highcliff liked this post
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #204
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

Marszalkowska as seen in the 3D reconstruction "Warszawa 1935"


http://www.warszawa1935.pl/img/galer...alkowska4K.jpg
__________________
N er det lenge siden 1952!

smugler, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by Oslo2022; June 14th, 2013 at 11:16 AM.
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #205
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,441
Likes (Received): 13469

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
1. Where was the Szpital Kliniczny Dzieciątka Jezus before it was moved in 1901?
West of Napoleon's Square (today's Plac Powstańcw Warszawy). The area of former hospital was sold after 1900, divided into lots and developed around 1900-14. Some of the rent houses built then exist today, most of them were destroyed in 1944 and now the large building of Financial Supervision Authority is on their spot.

Here you can find some information:
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index_arc...a_szpital&r3=0

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
2. Were there army barracks in Muranowska?
I'm nearly sure there weren't. At least not in 1930s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
3. As far as I can work out, from studying new and old maps till my brain hurts, the current Muranowska Street is not in the same place as the old one.
Don't need to hurt your brain: it isn't in the same place

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
4. Are there any photos of the original Szpital Kliniczny Dzieciątka Jezus pre 1901?
Probably yes



(approx. 1865)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
6. Is the Szpital Praski still the same building in the same site as it was in 1886?
Nope. The main characteristic 1/4-circle building was constructed in 1934-36.

Here are some details regarding the history of the hospital:
http://szpitalpraski.pl/nasz-szpital/historia/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
7. What is the name of the big railway station next to Plac Broni, on the north side of Stawki Street in Muranow?
Dworzec Gdański (Gdansk Railway Station).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
8. Are there any sites that I can find a really good detailed street plan circa 1870-1900?
Lindley's Warsaw Map

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
If you can help at all I would be very happy!

Helena
I am happy that you are happy

I can't answer to the Q no 5 though.
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Urbanista1, Highcliff liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2013, 11:44 PM   #206
HelenaWojtczak
Researcher and author
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HASTINGS
Posts: 45
Likes (Received): 13

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR REPLYING TO MY QUESTIONS :-)
HelenaWojtczak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #207
HelenaWojtczak
Researcher and author
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HASTINGS
Posts: 45
Likes (Received): 13

MRUCZEK...

"West of Napoleon's Square (today's Plac Powstańcw Warszawy). The area of former hospital was sold after 1900, divided into lots and developed around 1900-14. Some of the rent houses built then exist today, most of them were destroyed in 1944 and now the large building of Financial Supervision Authority is on their spot."

Hello there! Thank you! I have put a map in my book and put the hospital in the wrong place, so you have saved me from putting the wrong info in my book.

I am looking at a map of Warsaw today and am struggling to find exactly where the hospital used to be. I found the Pomnik of Napoleon. Can you help me to pinpoint exactly where I should put it?

Dziekuje

Helena
HelenaWojtczak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #208
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,441
Likes (Received): 13469

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenaWojtczak View Post
MRUCZEK...

"West of Napoleon's Square (today's Plac Powstańcw Warszawy). The area of former hospital was sold after 1900, divided into lots and developed around 1900-14. Some of the rent houses built then exist today, most of them were destroyed in 1944 and now the large building of Financial Supervision Authority is on their spot."

Hello there! Thank you! I have put a map in my book and put the hospital in the wrong place, so you have saved me from putting the wrong info in my book.

I am looking at a map of Warsaw today and am struggling to find exactly where the hospital used to be. I found the Pomnik of Napoleon. Can you help me to pinpoint exactly where I should put it?

Dziekuje

Helena
This is very, VERY approximate drawing of the area of the Hospital.
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Highcliff liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #209
HelenaWojtczak
Researcher and author
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HASTINGS
Posts: 45
Likes (Received): 13

That is very helpful, thank you so much! Helena
__________________

Mruczek liked this post
HelenaWojtczak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2013, 04:59 AM   #210
HotPocketPieLord
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 50

As a species that gets most of its information, and makes most of its decisions, visually why do we now ,at a time of previously unimaginable technology, have such a horrible taste in architecture(when compared to the architecture of previous centuries at least). I guess ,besides mother nature trying to kill us all the time, we really are our only obstacle.
HotPocketPieLord no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2013, 07:26 AM   #211
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,441
Likes (Received): 13469

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotPocketPieLord View Post
As a species that gets most of its information, and makes most of its decisions, visually why do we now ,at a time of previously unimaginable technology, have such a horrible taste in architecture(when compared to the architecture of previous centuries at least). I guess ,besides mother nature trying to kill us all the time, we really are our only obstacle.
I think the worst is already in the past
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Highcliff liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2013, 06:37 AM   #212
HotPocketPieLord
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 65
Likes (Received): 50


for Poland at least.
HotPocketPieLord no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 05:19 PM   #213
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

Trebacka street as seen in 1910


https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...55854772_n.jpg
__________________
N er det lenge siden 1952!

smugler, Highcliff liked this post
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2013, 10:49 PM   #214
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

Marszalkowska, could it have been rebuilt after the destruction in 1945?


http://www.fotopolska.eu/foto/23/23104.jpg

As most are aware, Marszalkowska escaped from the greatest bombing damages. A few tenements were hit, but other than that all of the most impressive tenements were still untouched (Insurence house Russia, Sobieski tenement, Tabenhaus tenement, and the bourgeoisie tenements in southern part Marszalkowska).

It remained this way all until 1 august 1944 when the street became the scene of some of the first fights during the Warsaw Uprising. Due to the early success of the Warsaw Uprising and the Polish Underground, a large part of Marszalkowska was under the control of the AK. And the front position remained more or less unchanged until the final surrender on october 6 1944.


http://www.studiop2.pl/starawarszawa...lkowska_32.jpg

The Uprising caused severe damage to most of the tenement houses in the street, nevertheless since Marszalkowska had still several buildings standing more or less untouched it soon became a victim of the Nazi-German planned destruction of the city. Tenement after tenement was burned and dynamited by the Verbrennungskommando and soon the northern part of the street was nothing less than a smoking ruin.

After the Soviet takeover in january 1945, some tenements in the street were still reusable and possible to reconstruct. (espacially in the southern part of the street which remained under german control throughout the Uprising). Nevertheless it was soon decided by the rebuilding committee and the communist government that the street will be widened and fill a different purpose than the pre-war street. As a result several tenements and the blocks surrounding them were not rebuilt but instead demolished in order to create the new parade street which could fit large tank parades.

But could it have been rebuilt? Both yes and no. In order to maintain its pre-war character Poland would have to avoid the instating of a communist regime after WWII, which was very unlikely. In a post-war capitalist the Warsaw I believe that a few landmark buildings such as the "Insurance house" and a few other tenements would have been rebuilt. The rest of the empty pre-war lots would be filled in with modernist architecture from the late 1940s, the 1950s and most likely the 1960s. The street would in other words never return to its former splendour, but without the nationalization we could have avoided the catastrophic result of the street widening.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-q...Top-18.BMP.jpg


http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/0/7703/z77032...erpinskich.jpg
__________________
N er det lenge siden 1952!

smugler, Highcliff, WB2010 liked this post

Last edited by Oslo2022; June 21st, 2013 at 10:55 PM.
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2013, 01:40 AM   #215
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,441
Likes (Received): 13469

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslo2022 View Post
After the Soviet takeover in january 1945, some tenements in the street were still reusable and possible to reconstruct. (espacially in the southern part of the street which remained under german control throughout the Uprising). Nevertheless it was soon decided by the rebuilding committee and the communist government that the street will be widened and fill a different purpose than the pre-war street. As a result several tenements and the blocks surrounding them were not rebuilt but instead demolished in order to create the new parade street which could fit large tank parades.
The most ambitious project of street widening was prepared at Wilanow's Studio of Maciej (Matthew) Nowicki - hardly a communist. And basically - the concept of widening Warsaw streets and "diluting" the city fabric was common among most of architecturers, politics aside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslo2022 View Post
As a result several tenements and the blocks surrounding them were not rebuilt but instead demolished in order to create the new parade street which could fit large tank parades.
Frankly speaking, when one's reading BOS protocols, the ambitions to create something similar to Haussmann's boulvards was more important

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslo2022 View Post
But could it have been rebuilt? Both yes and no. In order to maintain its pre-war character Poland would have to avoid the instating of a communist regime after WWII, which was very unlikely. In a post-war capitalist the Warsaw I believe that a few landmark buildings such as the "Insurance house" and a few other tenements would have been rebuilt. The rest of the empty pre-war lots would be filled in with modernist architecture from the late 1940s, the 1950s and most likely the 1960s. The street would in other words never return to its former splendour, but without the nationalization we could have avoided the catastrophic result of the street widening.
Since we discuss our personal taste and distaste - I am pretty much sure, that nothing in this alternative Warsaw could even compete with Marszałkowska Dzielnica Mieszkaniowa (MDM). The only problem in reality was, that reconstruction of Marszałkowska wasn't finished during Stalinism and, as the result, plenty of post-1956 mediocre and trashy buildings were created.
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Highcliff liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2013, 01:18 AM   #216
Ring
Before you die, you see..
 
Ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 5,907
Likes (Received): 13140

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslo2022 View Post
10 years ago
__________________
flickr

[Warszawa] Miasto Feniksa

Highcliff liked this post
Ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2013, 04:23 PM   #217
HelenaWojtczak
Researcher and author
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: HASTINGS
Posts: 45
Likes (Received): 13

Dear Friends

I very much need a photo of the Szpital Praski from around 1885. If not, any photo of Praga either showing that hospital or not.

Helena
HelenaWojtczak no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:29 PM   #218
Highcliff
Fake democracy
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: So Paulo
Posts: 7,384
Likes (Received): 5011

thank you for all of you for all these works...
Highcliff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #219
Oslo2022
Registered User
 
Oslo2022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 594
Likes (Received): 849

After completing our architectural tour of Pre-war Warsaw, I have decided to present some central buildings which were a part of the destinations pre-war tourists visited and which we would visit if they were not destroyed during the war: Hotels, cafes and restaurants, shopping tenements and so on.

We start off with
Famous restaurants in pre-war Warsaw (Part 1)


The renowned "Fukier Winary" restaurant at the Old Market square 27 from 1610

http://www.tokaj.hu/dl/media/group_4...9/item_815.pdf
The Fukier/Fugger family was a side branch of the German Fugger family. They originally orginated from Augsburg and Nrnberg and had strong Hungarian links to the Fugger-Thurzo family. The family wine collecting company was established in the 16th century, and from then on the Fukier family became renowned for their great collection of exquiste Hungarian Tokaj wines and traditional mead from the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.

First Fugger in Warsaw was Jerzy (Georg Fugger) who came to the city in 1515. (The family called themselves Fukier from the end of the 18th
century).

The Fukier Winary was one of the oldest wine trading companies in pre-war Poland. Throughout the family history in warsaw they had a considerable role in the life and politics of the polish capital. Still the family had no central location for their business until 1805 when Florian Fukier purchased the wine bar at the
Old Market Square, it soon became known as the famous „Winiarnia Fukierowska“.

A little overview of the Fukier collection:

Large selection of Hungarian wines
• Considerable collection of honey wine (mead)
• App. 5.500 bottles Tokay in the 1930s

Over the centuries the Fukier had built the most prestiguous Tokay Collection in the world
• Many of the best vintages
• Oldest one was 1606 (328 bottles from this year)
• Other old vintages:1668, 1682, 1734, 1754

• A 1876 report on another Warsaw cellar mentions wine of vintages of 1590 and 1634
• 328 bottles of vintage 1606
• 700 bottles from the real old
Tokay (200+ years old)
• 4.000 bottles from the younger
Tokay (100-200 years old) ?
1934 – 200 = 1734 or younger

• 6 year recorking cycle
• upright position
• very strict cellar management
• no paper labels (see picture)
• Bottles were kept standing upright
• Recorking took place in a 6 year cycle; New corks put into secret fluid for one day before recorking
• Visited by numerous VIPs (e.g. Napoleon)
• In 1754 Antoni Fukier sent 150 years old Tokay to the crowning ceremony of Stanislaw Poniatowski

It was business as usual until the family had to file for bankruptcy in 1928, the tenement and the restaurant was sold to the Krzeminski family.

Fukier Winary - Price list (1934 Zloty prices in parantheses) for a bottle of Tokay wine
• 1606 (450)
• 1668 (400)
• 1682 (400)
• 1734 (360)
• 1754 (270)
• 1783 (270)
• 1788 (225)
• 1811 (180)
• 1866 (135)

After Warsaw surrendered, september 27 1939, Henryk Fukier (the last member of the Fukier family who died in the 1950s) states that all wines were taken from the cellar by German officers between October 6 and
8, 1939 (The same time when Hitler held his great victory parade in the same area). To this day it remain unclear who gave the order and where the wines were transported, only hint is the name of one German officer mentioned in Henryk Fukiers book.

Since 1939 the collection has remained lost. Most writers believe the collection had been destroyed during he war, e.g. drunk by german soldiers. However, there is decent probability that the wines may have survived, because:

Timeline indicates how important the Fukier collections was:
• Warsaw surrenders on September 27
• German victory parade in Warsaw on October 5, Hitler was present
• One day later the cellars get confiscated
• In this phase of the war things went accurately on order
• German roots of Fukier (Fugger) family

But most probably again lost forever in the Soviet Union in 1958
- The wines served during a great meeting between Marshal Zhukov and US General Alan Shapley (deputy commander of the US Marine
Corps / a personal friend of Zhukov):

Russian soldiers found the wines at the end of World War II
• 300 bottles of vintage 1668 and thousand from vintages 1682, 1737, 1783 and 1811
• Each bottle was numbered with white paint (visible under ultra violet light)
• Shown was the cellar catalogue itemizing wines, vintage years, date of acquisition,
seller, entries showing with whom the owner had consumed bottles, near-matching
vintages used during recorking
• 6 year recorking cycle
• Wines were stored in upright position


http://www.warszawa1939.pl/zdjecia/r...ynek_27_01.jpg


http://www.warszawa1939.pl/zdjecia/r...ynek_27_02.jpg

Interiors

http://www.fotopolska.eu/282941,foto.html?o=b3546


http://www.fotopolska.eu/201840,foto.html?o=b3546


http://www.fotopolska.eu/323544,foto.html?o=b3546

The Wine cellar with up to 500 years old wines (from France, Italy and Hungary) - confiscated and transported out of Warsaw by German officers in 1939

http://www.fotopolska.eu/440244,foto.html?o=b3546

1927: Celebration of novelist Thomas Mann (nr.3, the man in the middle)

http://www.fotopolska.eu/191536,foto.html?o=b3546

Hotel Europejski, Cafe Lourse

First opened by swiss Lourse, in 1821 on the crossway between Miodowa (mead street) and Kapitulna street. It was moved to Krakowskie Przedmiescie street (Royal way) and the Hotel Europejski in 1869. It was from then on the most elegant cafe, and the traditional gathering place of pre-war Warsaws cultural elite.

Inside you could find large mirrors, classical columns and marble tables in classic french style. From outside bypassers could witness the elegant exhibitions of the cafes craftmanship and which were often mentioned in the Warsaw press.

The Cafe interiors, as well as the Hotel Europejski itself was destroyed after the Warsaw Uprising. The hotels facade was later reconstructed but the Cafe Lourse remain unopened to this day. There is a chance that the cafe will be reopened and its interiors will be reconstructed when the Hotel and the former Cafe soon will be renovated by the pre-war owners which reclaimed the Hotel back a few years ago.


http://www.fotopolska.eu/89534,foto.html?o=b3040

Interiors

http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/9/qulh.jpg


http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/534/zndn.jpg


http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/703/39wv.jpg


http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/40/4b9q.jpg
__________________
N er det lenge siden 1952!

smugler liked this post

Last edited by Oslo2022; September 28th, 2013 at 03:54 PM.
Oslo2022 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 28th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #220
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392



__________________

Oslo2022, smugler liked this post
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu