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Old March 21st, 2015, 06:43 PM   #281
kunming tiger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Look at the map. A HSR Nanning-Hanoi-Vientiane looks like it could make sense.
Take a closer look like at ground level the Nanning Hanoi part makes sense

The link would need to go down the coast then westwards into Laos due to the terrain.

I would say south of Vinh, the problem with this proposal is that it doesn't take into account realities on the ground.

curent infrastrure in Vietnam is poor , falling to pieces. They are currently widening the main highway south .

They to get their level crossings to work get the main highways upgraded to expressway standard.

There is just one expressway in the country.

A direct line through Nanning Hanoi and Vietianne might serve the Chinese but that would be feasible only if the Kunming link was scrapped .

Assuming Vietnam agrees to pay for it and let the Chinese build it and the Central government ignores the Yunnan lobby and abandones the on going HSR construction towards the border with Laos.

But it ignores the fact that Danang port would be esier to link to the terminus of the east link. That opens Central Vietnam.

I went through this area last month There is no real industry other than agricultural low incomes.


Moving to the other side the contrast was stark, world class expressways factories high rises instead of wooden huts private cars instead of motos cities instead of towns but above dollars instead of dimes.

Big money is going into Puer

Neither route is easy But Thailand is being over run by Chinese tourists by Vietnamese tourists particularly from Yunnan and Si Chuan

Kunming to Bangkok will pay for itself on tourism alone

An expensive HSR project especially one funded and buit by the Chinese in the current tensions surrounding the South China seas isn't the brightest idea.

Politics aside they would be more open to linking to Camabodia and thailand via laos to the west easier cheaper and more popular.

Da Nang and Saigon via Laos and Cambodia respectively the cost is minimal to Vietnam .

Right now a direct HSR link to china is dead in the water anti chinese feeling could blow up at any time.

Nobody in their right mind would run the HSR via Vietianne I suspect it was the price the chinese had to pay for the project to cross laos.
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:13 PM   #282
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Govt putting all electric train projects into high gear

BANGKOK, 21 March 2015 (NNT) – The Prime Minister is adamant his administration has been expediting all pending electric train projects in the Bangkok Metropolis, anticipating their completion within the year 2020.

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha stated in his televised public address that the construction of electric rail lines across Bangkok and parts of its vicinities is currently progressing quickly. He noted that the Purple Line Bang Yai-Bang Sue is in the process of system installation and the test run is planned for early 2016. As for the MRT Blue Line extension, he said it is likely to be ready for service in 2018.

Meanwhile, Gen Prayut added that a target has been set for all other projects which are now underway to be finished and put in operation no later than 2020. These projects consist of the Green Line extension, both on the southern section Bearing-Samut Prakan-Bang Pu and the northern section Mo Chit-Saphan Mai-Khu Khot, the Orange Line Rama 9-Min Buri, the Pink Line Khae Rai-Min Buri, and the Red Line Rangsit-Bang Sue.

In regard to the high-speed rail system, the premier disclosed that the government will initially consider short-haul routes between Bangkok and popular destinations, such as Pattaya, Rayong and Hua Hin, due to much interest from private investors. For the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route, he said Japan is keen on investing in the project and the Transport Ministry has been assigned to study the joint venture in detail.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/centerweb/...L5803210010006
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:14 PM   #283
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Case in point

The Kunming - Bangkok expressway came through Banna crossed Laos into Northern Thailand . Shorter and easier most likely cheaper.

Southern China and Northern Thailand are more heavily populted than Northern Laos even Vietianne is only the size of prefecture level city in Yunnan. Vietnam is larger but most people live in the river deltas or along the coast, NW Vieltnam is sparsely populated.

Running the line through Vietianne is more political expediency rather than economic neccesity.

Kunming-Yuxi- Simao- Jing Hong- Chiang Rai- Chiang Mai makes more sense than

Nanning-Hanoi-Luang Prabang-Vietianne
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:19 PM   #284
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Take a closer look like at ground level the Nanning Hanoi part makes sense

The link would need to go down the coast then westwards into Laos due to the terrain.

I would say south of Vinh,
Agreed. There does seem to be a (minor) road crossing the mountains in that region.
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Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
the problem with this proposal is that it doesn't take into account realities on the ground.

curent infrastrure in Vietnam is poor , falling to pieces. They are currently widening the main highway south .

They to get their level crossings to work get the main highways upgraded to expressway standard.

There is just one expressway in the country.
Yes, but how does the current infrastructure in Laos compare?
I expect it also is poor. Vietnam at least does have the narrow gauge railway from Saigon all the way to Haiphong, Pingxiang and Kunming. Laos has nothing past the Vientiane bridge.
And now look at the terrain. The route north of Vientian goes through mountains all the way north to Yunnan border... and then all the way through Yunnan and beyond.
Whereas the route east of Vientian to Vinh goes along the relatively flat Mekong valley, crosses mountains only briefly between Laos and Vinh, then again over a flat coastal plain. Easy to build, and a lot of people to serve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
A direct line through Nanning Hanoi and Vietianne might serve the Chinese but that would be feasible only if the Kunming link was scrapped .

Assuming Vietnam agrees to pay for it and let the Chinese build it and the Central government ignores the Yunnan lobby and abandones the on going HSR construction towards the border with Laos.

But it ignores the fact that Danang port would be esier to link to the terminus of the east link. That opens Central Vietnam.
Yes, and?
Vietnamese want to build HSR Hanoi-Saigon.
This includes Hanoi-Vinh section.
If China builds Hanoi-Vinh HSR for Vietnam because China wants to get through Vietnam to Laos, then Vietnamese themselves can try to build Vinh-Danang-Saigon, because they want to get to Saigon. Then they have less HSR to build themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
I went through this area last month There is no real industry other than agricultural low incomes.


Moving to the other side the contrast was stark, world class expressways factories high rises instead of wooden huts private cars instead of motos cities instead of towns but above dollars instead of dimes.

Big money is going into Puer

Neither route is easy But Thailand is being over run by Chinese tourists by Vietnamese tourists particularly from Yunnan and Si Chuan

Kunming to Bangkok will pay for itself on tourism alone
Yes, and? How about Nanning-Hanoi-Vinh-Vientian-Bangkok?
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Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
An expensive HSR project especially one funded and buit by the Chinese in the current tensions surrounding the South China seas isn't the brightest idea.

Politics aside they would be more open to linking to Camabodia and thailand via laos to the west easier cheaper and more popular.

Da Nang and Saigon via Laos and Cambodia respectively the cost is minimal to Vietnam .
And the use to Vietnam is also limited.
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:38 PM   #285
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The crossing has to be north of Hue just south of the old DMZ.

Hue/Da nang seaport by pass Vietianne to the south.

infrastructure down there is a shambles

They won't make a move until the HSR is up and running and profitable and tensons in the south china seas simmer down.

ideally nanning hanoi hue saigon connecting to phom penn in the south and eastern thailand via hue.

any link to vietianne from hanoi it would have to be a low priority

once the HSR link from kunming is finished i expect large influx of chinese into laos .
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:50 PM   #286
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1.If China builds Hanoi-Vinh HSR for Vietnam because China wants to get through Vietnam to Laos, then Vietnamese themselves can try to build Vinh-Danang-Saigon, because they want to get to Saigon. Then they have less HSR to build themselves.

The Chinese want to get to SE Asia not Vietianne via Vietnam once they join kunming to bangkok then it's done.

2,And now look at the terrain. The route north of Vientian goes through mountains all the way north to Yunnan border... and then all the way through Yunnan and beyond.
Whereas the route east of Vientian to Vinh goes along the relatively flat Mekong valley, crosses mountains only briefly between Laos and Vinh, then again over a flat coastal plain. Easy to build, and a lot of people to serve.

Once you reach Yunnan proper from Vietnam it is a plateau it's flat from Laos it is uphill but the expressway allows for high speed until you get onto the plateau

3 Whereas the route east of Vientian to Vinh goes along the relatively flat Mekong valley, crosses mountains only briefly between Laos and Vinh, then again over a flat coastal plain. Easy to build, and a lot of people to serve.

define a lot
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:52 PM   #287
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The crossing has to be north of Hue just south of the old DMZ.

Hue/Da nang seaport by pass Vietianne to the south.

infrastructure down there is a shambles
Then can you explain - why detour to Hue, not Vinh?
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:12 PM   #288
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Easy there are three major seaports in Haiphong near Hanoi the one near Saigon and Danang near Hue.

Also the end of the proposed west to east line in Thailand finishes near that areay .

at first i couldn't understand why build such a line but if you join da nang to the seaport in burma you could move freight point to point going around the straights of malacca and south china sea.

hue is also the center of the tourist trade any rail link would need to pass through the two and it is heavily populated more so than vinh you have hoi an directly south.

in hindsight if the thais can get the vietnamese and burmese to sign on with japanese help that line would be very important more so freight
finally disposble incomes are higher in the hue hoi an area. poor roads mean cars are
not a good option
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:20 PM   #289
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da wei port in burma might be the other port i was referring to
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:26 PM   #290
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One of the lines will go to Laem Chabang and Map Tha Phut Seaport (Thailand's biggest seaport), so I think there's a little reason for China to want HSR to Danang.

Thailand's plan to bypass the Malacca Strait is constructing HSR line from Map Tha Phut Seaport to Myanmar's Dawei Seaport.

Line 2 on the map
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:27 PM   #291
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Only recently was Dawei connected to the rest of Myanmar by road and rail. There are plans to construct a deep water port in Dawei.[3] In November 2010, the Myanmar Port Authority signed a US$8.6 billion deal with Italian-Thai Development to develop the seaport at Dawei.[4] This development would become Myanmar's first special economic zone (SEZ), which includes plans to develop a 250 square kilometres (97 sq mi) industrial estate, with sea, land (railway and road) infrastructure links to Thailand, Cambodia, and Vietnam, as well as a gas pipeline to Thailand's Kanchanaburi Province and commercial and residential developments.[5]

A transnational highway and a railway line across the Tenasserim Hills connecting Dawei and Bangkok are planned if the deep water port project goes ahead.[7] This port could significantly reduce Singapore-bound traffic when completed.[8]
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:34 PM   #292
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Like this.


http://www.thaibizchina.com/thaibizc.../transport.php
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:36 PM   #293
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One of the lines will go to Laem Chabang Seaport (Thailand's biggest seaport), so I think there's a little reason for China to want HSR to Danang.

Thailand's plan to bypass the Malacca Strait is constructing HSR line from Laem Chabang Seaport to Myanmar's Dawei Seaport.

I think you mis understood my post it's true that they Chinese dont care abou a HSR link to da nang

however the end of the end of the east west link in thailand could be connected to da nang that would be in the interests of vietnam not China.

connecting all the seaports in the region by rail would have advantages.
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:42 PM   #294
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good map

all major seaports in the region will eventually be linked together .
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Old March 21st, 2015, 08:57 PM   #295
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I think you mis understood my post it's true that they Chinese dont care abou a HSR link to da nang

however the end of the end of the east west link in thailand could be connected to da nang that would be in the interests of vietnam not China.

connecting all the seaports in the region by rail would have advantages.
Yes, you're right. The East-West Corridor line to link Thailand with Danang was only to be a highway at first, however they changed it to be a HSR line to connect the seaports and also promote border trade. But since this line was only thought up recently, we will have to wait for the feasibility- and design study to done at the end of year.

But I don't really see this line happening soon, since there are other lines that are more important.
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Old March 21st, 2015, 11:30 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
I think you mis understood my post it's true that they Chinese dont care abou a HSR link to da nang

however the end of the end of the east west link in thailand could be connected to da nang that would be in the interests of vietnam not China.

connecting all the seaports in the region by rail would have advantages.
Yeah that's right. Actually that is the reason why this line (Tak - Mukdahan) just get proposed now. Linking several ASEAN sea ports and promote border trade between Myanmar, Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. Running that line for local Thais alone doesn't serve much since there is little demand around that area.
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Old March 21st, 2015, 11:43 PM   #297
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Easy there are three major seaports in Haiphong near Hanoi the one near Saigon and Danang near Hue.

Also the end of the proposed west to east line in Thailand finishes near that areay .
There is a west to east line in Thailand. It ends at Ubon Rathchathani.

If it were continued across Mekong, South Laos and over mountains to Hue or Danang, then what?

Look at it this way: Vietnam has 3 major settled regions. South Vietnam around Saigon, North Vietnam around Hanoi and Haiphong, and Central Vietnam with Hue and Danang.

If Vietnam wanted a railway connection west to Thailand:
Saigon-Bangkok has to cross the wide delta branches of Mekong. It would also connect Vietnam with Cambodia at Phnom Penh, where the existing railway goes.
Danang-Ubon Rathchathani would have to cross mountains. It would also have to cross southern Laos, but it can cross Mekong upstream of delta, where the river is narrower.
Hanoi-Nong Khai also has to cross mountains, and then middle Laos. Mekong flows west-east there. Since Thai bank has no railway there anyway, it would make sense to follow the Laos bank to Vientiane, and then cross to Nong Khai.

But which of these three would be most useful for Thailand?
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 06:58 AM   #298
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Yes, you're right. The East-West Corridor line to link Thailand with Danang was only to be a highway at first, however they changed it to be a HSR line to connect the seaports and also promote border trade. But since this line was only thought up recently, we will have to wait for the feasibility- and design study to done at the end of year.

But I don't really see this line happening soon, since there are other lines that are more important.
They need that west east link built and operating before it could be extended to the south china sea.

shipping freight and passeners would develop that area immensly,

this won't be done this decade.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 07:28 AM   #299
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There is a west to east line in Thailand. It ends at Ubon Rathchathani.

If it were continued across Mekong, South Laos and over mountains to Hue or Danang, then what?

Look at it this way: Vietnam has 3 major settled regions. South Vietnam around Saigon, North Vietnam around Hanoi and Haiphong, and Central Vietnam with Hue and Danang.

If Vietnam wanted a railway connection west to Thailand:
Saigon-Bangkok has to cross the wide delta branches of Mekong. It would also connect Vietnam with Cambodia at Phnom Penh, where the existing railway goes.
Danang-Ubon Rathchathani would have to cross mountains. It would also have to cross southern Laos, but it can cross Mekong upstream of delta, where the river is narrower.
Hanoi-Nong Khai also has to cross mountains, and then middle Laos. Mekong flows west-east there. Since Thai bank has no railway there anyway, it would make sense to follow the Laos bank to Vientiane, and then cross to Nong Khai.

But which of these three would be most useful for Thailand?

The better question would be what would be useful for Vietnam?

The problem in Vietnam is that geographically and culturally the country is divided into north and south.

there is need to develop the center of the country to link the two together right now development there is lagging the coastal strip is heavily populated can be turned into a tourist strip

The shortest way into SE Asia is right across the ho Chin minh trail less distance less cost and . from the center to you build north and south.

Da Nang has the best infrastrucure I've seen the government is already working on it.

the problem with the nanning hanoi vietianne route is that it does a lot for china not much for vietnam except using it as a transit point.

the average speed by road is 30 km/h that is faster than the train. that is over mainly flat terrain.

unless the Chinese propose it, finance it build it but don't operate or own it then fine they can have a a HSR that runs across Vietnam to Nanning.

Short of that Vietnam won't agree to it. The Chinese have never proposed it nor has anybody else for good reason.

it's duplication of infrastructure , they don't need two links through Laos just one.

A Nanning Hanoi Da nang Saigon line would link the entire country with branch lines to cambodia and thailand via laos.

it sells itself linked to china SE Asia and the entire country .

a ride through the mountains of laos won't cut it.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 09:19 AM   #300
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The better question would be what would be useful for Vietnam?

The problem in Vietnam is that geographically and culturally the country is divided into north and south.

there is need to develop the center of the country to link the two together right now development there is lagging the coastal strip is heavily populated can be turned into a tourist strip

The shortest way into SE Asia is right across the ho Chin minh trail less distance less cost
Actually, the narrowest neck of Vietnam is around Quang Binh.

But creating a high speed railway from Thailand to Danang does nothing to connect Vietnam. Rather, it cuts Vietnam in three, as Central Vietnam will have its separate connections.

What would connect Vietnam is a high speed railway north-south, Hanoi-Danang-Saigon. And they want to build it. But this does little for anyone else.
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and . from the center to you build north and south.

Da Nang has the best infrastrucure I've seen the government is already working on it.

the problem with the nanning hanoi vietianne route is that it does a lot for china not much for vietnam except using it as a transit point.

the average speed by road is 30 km/h that is faster than the train. that is over mainly flat terrain.

unless the Chinese propose it, finance it build it but don't operate or own it then fine they can have a a HSR that runs across Vietnam to Nanning.

Short of that Vietnam won't agree to it. The Chinese have never proposed it nor has anybody else for good reason.

it's duplication of infrastructure , they don't need two links through Laos just one.
How many links does Yunnan need? Kunming-Guiyang? Kunming-Nanning? Kunming-Chongqing? Kunming-Chengdu? Which of these are excessive?
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A Nanning Hanoi Da nang Saigon line would link the entire country with branch lines to cambodia and thailand via laos.
Sure!
For Vietnam, Hanoi-Vinh-Danang-Saigon would be the mainline, and Hanoi-Nanning and Vinh-Vientiane-Bangkok would be the branch lines. For China, Nanning-Hanoi-Vinh-Vientiane-Bangkok would be the mainline, and Vinh-Danang-Saigon the branch line. Same network!
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