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Old December 28th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #501
Wisarut
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Who is going to pay for this cockamamie scheme?

Beijing?

If so then I believe Malaysia and Singapore should stop all plans and have the Chinese build it for them free of charge.
Loan from China + domestic loans + mutual funds for infrastructure
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Old December 29th, 2015, 08:55 AM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Who is going to pay for this cockamamie scheme?

Beijing?

If so then I believe Malaysia and Singapore should stop all plans and have the Chinese build it for them free of charge.
What is your issue exactly with the financial side? As long as you are not paying for it yourself exactly who finaces it and how are not your concern.

To answer your question the Chinese are contributing a significant amount of the cost of the project that makes it viable in the first place.

Your second suggestion isnt as silly as it seems,the Chinese are about the only ones with the capital, knowledge, technology and ambition to do exactly that the Singapore/KL link would be a piece of cake compared to the other lines they are contemplating building.

This is a done deal so get over it or stage a public demonstration otherwise move forward like the rest of us.

“ small minded people laugh at the grand schemes of others because that's what small people do"

Out of the three proposed lines the eastern line looks to be the least likely or last line to be realized.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 08:59 AM   #503
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Out of the three proposed lines the eastern line looks to be the least likely or last line to be realized.
the mutual distrust between Chinese government and Vietnamese government are the reason.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 10:21 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Loan from China + domestic loans + mutual funds for infrastructure
Then I guess not even half would go beyond paper. There are no plans for the Malay-Singapore line to go further north. Vietnam as you posted is never going to agree in connecting with PRC. Myanmar doesn't have the money and is going through disputed region. Both Laos and Cambodia doesn't really have the money either.

The east to west freight line has much more possibility in which each nation can take commission from the cargo passing through which will do more for their respected economy.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 12:40 PM   #505
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Then I guess not even half would go beyond paper. There are no plans for the Malay-Singapore line to go further north. Vietnam as you posted is never going to agree in connecting with PRC. Myanmar doesn't have the money and is going through disputed region. Both Laos and Cambodia doesn't really have the money either.

The east to west freight line has much more possibility in which each nation can take commission from the cargo passing through which will do more for their respected economy.


the Southern line will be started from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin ... but it is up to Thai private sector + foreign partners to do the down and dirty jobs on Railway land along the Southern line as shown here:

http://thaihispeedtrain.com/huahin/about2.php


For the issue related to Thai - Japan railway, here is the line to be chosen:

Following from Ban Phu Namron checkpoint to Ban Kao station (upgraded from stop) and then following Namtok Line all the way to Na Karn station (upgraded from stop) before going through the new line to Tha Muang Container yard (station upgraded from stop) before following Namtok line To Nong Pladuk Junction and following the existing Southern line to Tha Chalaeb before following the new line to meet with Mahachai line at Phrom Daen station (upgraded from stop) before following the new line to pass the mount of Sanphasamit canal before going across Chao Phraya river before following the new line to Bang Pakong and reaching Sattahip line at Phan Thong station to Sriracha and Laem Chabang branch line to Laem Chabang
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1429674831
http://manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.a...=9580000046115
https://www.facebook.com/Homebuyersf...type=1&theater
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Last edited by Wisarut; December 29th, 2015 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Addendum
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Old December 29th, 2015, 12:40 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Then I guess not even half would go beyond paper. There are no plans for the Malay-Singapore line to go further north. Vietnam as you posted is never going to agree in connecting with PRC. Myanmar doesn't have the money and is going through disputed region. Both Laos and Cambodia doesn't really have the money either.

The east to west freight line has much more possibility in which each nation can take commission from the cargo passing through which will do more for their respected economy.
I don't think your pessimism is fully warranted. While I also don't think all of this will be built (particularly in Vietnam) the central route is already almost in construction via Laos and northern Thailand. Sure, not really a HS line, but good enough for the current needs.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 01:00 PM   #507
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Bangkok-Rayong (194km) and Bangkok-Hua Hin (211km) HSR will be up for bidding in third quarter of 2016.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ministry fast-tracks 2 rail routes
29 Dec 2015 at 03:30 | WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

The Transport Ministry is fast-tracking two high-speed train routes under the public-private partnership (PPP) programme.

They are the 94.7-billion-baht Bangkok-Hua Hin route and 152.5-billion-baht Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong route.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said he has instructed the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) to speed up the study on the investment of the two high-speed train lines to comply with the Private Investments in State Undertakings Act.

The two projects will be put on the PPP fast track for urgent investment next year, he said.

"The details of the investment model will be stipulated by the PPP committee," the minister said.

"But at this stage, both Thai and foreign private operators will be allowed to invest."

SRT governor Wuthichart Kalyanamitra said a consultancy firm will send an investment study on the two lines to the SRT by February.

The Transport Ministry will consider it before forwarding it to the State Enterprises Policy Commission, or the superboard, and the PPP committee for further deliberation, he said.

"The study of two projects is aimed to be sent to the PPP committee by the first quarter of next year, or the second quarter at the latest," said Mr Wuthichart.

He added that the construction bids for the two routes could be launched in the third quarter.

The contractors will be sought next year, the governor said.

After the investment costs for the two projects are concluded, work will be done on stipulating the investment ratio between the private and state sectors.

Private firms will also be asked which work they are interested in, such as civil work, construction, train operation and property development along the rail lines, Mr Wuthichart said.

Thai Beverage Plc has shown an interest in investing in the 211km Bangkok-Hua Hin route.

Charoen Pokphand Group, the country's largest agro-industrial and food conglomorate, meanwhile, is willing to invest in the 194km Bangkok-Pattaya-Rayong route.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gene...-2-rail-routes
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Old December 30th, 2015, 01:53 AM   #508
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Quote:
What is your issue exactly with the financial side? As long as you are not paying for it yourself exactly who finances it and how are not your concern.

To answer your question the Chinese are contributing a significant amount of the cost of the project that makes it viable in the first place.
I would assume that the Chinese government is treating this like any other infrastructure project where the Chinese government backed banks lend to the project but that the local governments have to provide loan guarantees. The risk to the local governments is that if the project goes over budget (a very definite risk) or if they interest rate on the loans is too high then the incoming project revenue might not be enough to pay the principal and interest charges on the loan...and the local government (per the guarantees) would have to pay back the Chinese banks.

In other words, the Chinese are not building these projects for free and there is considerable risk to local governments, especially if they agree to provide loan guarantees.

Last edited by sdery; December 30th, 2015 at 01:54 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old December 30th, 2015, 05:41 AM   #509
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I would assume that the Chinese government is treating this like any other infrastructure project where the Chinese government backed banks lend to the project but that the local governments have to provide loan guarantees. The risk to the local governments is that if the project goes over budget (a very definite risk) or if they interest rate on the loans is too high then the incoming project revenue might not be enough to pay the principal and interest charges on the loan...and the local government (per the guarantees) would have to pay back the Chinese banks.

In other words, the Chinese are not building these projects for free and there is considerable risk to local governments, especially if they agree to provide loan guarantees.
the Chinese loan in US Dollars via Chinese EXIM Bank in question has become a bone of contention as Chinese government said 2.5% per annum is what they can offer to Thai government but Thai government (both Bank of Thailand and Ministry of Finance) have pressed the demand to Chinese government that 2.00% per annum is the maximum interest rate Thai government can accept. Initially, Chinese government is going to offer loan in Renminbi but Thai government (both Bank of Thailand and Ministry of Finance) said Renminbi cannot be liquidated as easy as US Dollars.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 04:06 PM   #510
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China to drop loan rate for train project - Arkhom
19 Jan 2016 at 18:37
WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

China has agreed in principle to reduce the interest rate for loans for its joint rail project with Thailand, Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said on Tuesday.

After several rounds of negotiations, China's vice premier promised to slash the rate to 2% from 2.5%.

"In the latest talks with Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jautripitak, Chinese Vice Premier Wang Yang pledged the 2% interest rate," Mr Arkhom said.

The pledge could become official at the two countries' next meeting, expected in February, at which time the joint venture's structure could be finalised.

The transport and finance ministries are considering increasing China's stake in the project to 70% from the propsed 60%. Mr Arkhom said the issue will be decided before the next meeting.

He said increasing China's investment will not derail the project because the operational plan remains unchanged with China letting Thailand take over all operations after seven years.

The loan issue has played a part in the delay of the Thai-Chinese train scheme as the government repeatedly had urged China to cap the interest rate at 2%.

The project covers the medium-speed train routes from Nong Khai to Map Ta Phut in Rayong and Kaeng Khoi to Bangkok. The two countries expect construction to get underway in May.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/tran...project-arkhom

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Old January 21st, 2016, 11:41 AM   #511
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Progress of Bang Sue Grand Station taken today.



Segment is now being set up.



Credit: Khun Niphitphong Tangsiriwarangkun
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 04:28 PM   #512
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Update from thai news:

Feasibility study for Public Private Partnership HSR:
Bangkok - Pattaya - Rayong (194 km) and Bangkok - Hua Hin (211 km) with a speed of 250 km/h will be completed in March.

Afterwards they will be given to the PPP board for approval, where bidding will take place right after.

For the Thai-Chinese HSR (873 km), after the groundbreaking ceremony by laying the foundation on Dec 19, construction for this line will begin in May as planned, after China recently agreed to lower the interest rate from 2.5% to 2%. The next round of negotiation will take place next month in Beijing after the Chinese New Year.

Thai-Japanese HSR (672 km) is still waiting for EIA, which is expected to be completed in June. However Thai-Japanese electrified double track meter gauge (574 km) with a speed of 160 km/h is well underway and will begin on January 27.

http://www.posttoday.com/analysis/interview/411637
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:34 PM   #513
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Many thanks for the succinct update. As a foreigner who doesn't read Thai I tend to get lost. There's SUCH a multitude of plans on the table, promoted by Thai/Chinese/Japanese interests; operating passengers-only/freight/mixed; and proposing proper high-speed/200km/h "poor man's HS"/old fashioned 160km/h
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Old January 28th, 2016, 10:08 AM   #514
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Push for Bangkok-Rayong rail plan
THE NATION January 28, 2016 1:00 am

THE FINANCE Ministry plans to push for the Bt152-billion Bangkok-Rayong high-speed-rail project for consideration under the PPP fast-track scheme as the sixth of 20 planned mega-projects.

Finance Minister Apisak Tantivorawong said after a meeting of the Public Private Partnerships (PPP) Policy Committee that the panel wanted the project to enter the PPP fast-track process.

Trains would run on the 193.5-kilometre railway at speeds of up to 250km/h. However, the Transport Ministry will have to review whether the project needs participation from the private sector, the types of investment and the route's operation, Apisak said.

"This meeting did not yet finalise the Bangkok-Rayong high-speed-railway construction project, so the committee has asked the Transport Ministry to review its plan for this project and submit it at the next meeting," he said.

The five projects to be moved up are expected to cost about Bt334 billion.

Three are rail projects - the Pink Line's Khae Rai-Minburi section, the Yellow Line's Lat Phrao-Samrong section and the Blue Line's two extensions from Hua Lamphong to Bang Khae and Bang Sue to Tha Phra.

Others

The other two projects are the Bang Yai-Kanchanaburi and Bang Pa-in-Nakhon Ratchasima motorways.

Some of these projects are at the stage of preparing documents before submitting them to the Cabinet for further consideration.

The Blue Line extensions are expected to be resubmitted to the PPP Policy Committee in April and proposed to the Cabinet in May.

Apisak, also chairman of the PPP Policy Committee, said the PPP Fast Track scheme would help shorten the consideration of any project |to only eight months from 24 months.

The State Railway of Thailand also reported its plan for the development of railway double-tracking to be divided into two phases. It would spend Bt129 billion on the first phase and Bt200 billion on the second.

The meeting also acknowledged the progress of amending the PPP Act to allow private participation in the government's projects more easily so that they can be moved on faster than before.

According to the amended PPP Act, projects with investment of less than Bt1 billion do not have to |pass through the PPP Policy Committee.

Those with investment between Bt1 billion and Bt5 billion are also exempt from the committee's consideration if they are not infrastructure projects.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/busi...-30277914.html
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Old February 4th, 2016, 11:12 AM   #515
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Pics by Chuthaphong Saetang

Thai-Chinese HSR model at Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning.























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Old February 8th, 2016, 08:08 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
Who is going to pay for this cockamamie scheme?

Beijing?

If so then I believe Malaysia and Singapore should stop all plans and have the Chinese build it for them free of charge.
please click on the link below

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1806727
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Old February 8th, 2016, 08:11 AM   #517
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The central and western corridors are U/C .

Dates of completion

Kunming-Mohan 2020

Kunming -Ruli 2021
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Old February 12th, 2016, 06:36 PM   #518
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Thai-Chinese HSR speed will now be 250 km/h and focus only on passenger, while cargo will instead be handled by the meter gauge double track line that is currently u/c.

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Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Thai - Japan railway will have both high speed to Chiang Mai and cargo on the existing lines - and so, the case of Thai China railway, the old Thai - China High Speed train of 250 kph will be revived with cargo to be handled by existing meter gauge lines so as to use existing stations without need to need for extra stations to handle cargoes - this is a solution to cut down the cost
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1455097471
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Old February 13th, 2016, 04:01 PM   #519
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Perhaps 250 kmph on theThai side nowhere that through Southern Yunnan and Laos.
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Old February 13th, 2016, 06:05 PM   #520
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Perhaps 250 kmph on theThai side nowhere that through Southern Yunnan and Laos.
Yah, as Thai people pressing the demands for that high speed at the affordable prices - demands which should never be disputed
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