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Old May 13th, 2016, 10:39 AM   #561
Wisarut
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Originally Posted by George W. Bush View Post
You mean there will be no HSR station at Suvarnabhumi?
Yah, due to the limited underground space - no space for High Speed train at Suvannabhum for sure
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Old May 13th, 2016, 10:50 AM   #562
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Ok. So Lat Krabang station will effectively be the airport's HSR station and the Airport Rail Link a shuttle service for all those heading to Pattaya or Rayong (which should be plenty of people, I would be surprised if this route doesn't become an instant financial success).
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Old May 13th, 2016, 10:54 AM   #563
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Ok. So Lat Krabang station will effectively be the airport's HSR station and the Airport Rail Link a shuttle service for all those heading to Pattaya or Rayong (which should be plenty of people, I would be surprised if this route doesn't become an instant financial success).
this implication means the existing Lad Krabang station of Airport link must get major expansion to accommodate both High Speed train and Airport link - with passing loops more than that of Hua Mark station station of Airport Link.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 03:44 PM   #564
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Signing the records on the 10th discussion on Thai - China railway - with the conclusion on the first section of Thai - China railway from Bangsue central to Khorat - cutting down the budget from 190 billion Baht to 170 billion Baht according to what Thai consultant have studied with max speed of 250 kph - and the section will be 4-5 contracts instead of 2 contracts
as the measure to speed up the project
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/...36445623036972
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=_jBIphbQo34
http://www.innnews.co.th/shownews/show?newscode=698671
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Old May 13th, 2016, 05:55 PM   #565
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To add to Khun Wisarut. Thai-China HSR: Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat) with a distance of 250 km is expected to begin construction in August-September.

The two sides agreed to start civil construction in the first part in August-September. The section that are easy to construct, such as Korat - Pak Chong or Ban Pachi will begin construction first as they are ready. Detailed design will be completed in 60 days and the investment budget for this line will be concluded in one week.

Some facts about this line and the new term:

1. This is no longer called medium speed train
2. This is High-speed rail running 250 km/h and there would no longer be cargo train sharing the line
3. 100% Thai investment
4. Use technology from China

http://www.thaipost.net/?q=%E0%B8%95...B8%B5%E0%B9%89
http://www.innnews.co.th/shownews/show?newscode=698671



https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/...36445623036972
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Old May 13th, 2016, 06:36 PM   #566
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Thai High Speed Train Projects

Thai-China: Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima
  • Construction in August-September

Thai-Japan: Bangkok - Phitsanuloke
  • Environment Impact Assessment will be completed in June

Public Private Partnership: Bangkok - Hua Hin
Public Private Partnership: Bangkok - Rayong
  • Bidding later this year. Construction in 2017


http://www.realist.co.th/blog/รถไฟความเร็วสูง/
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Last edited by Codename B; May 17th, 2016 at 04:04 PM.
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Old May 14th, 2016, 02:46 AM   #567
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To add to Khun Wisarut. Thai-China HSR: Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat) with a distance of 250 km is expected to begin construction in August-September.

The two sides agreed to start civil construction in the first part in August-September. The section that are easy to construct, such as Korat - Pak Chong or Ban Pachi will begin construction first as they are ready. Detailed design will be completed in 60 days and the investment budget for this line will be concluded in one week.

Some facts about this line and the new term:

1. This is no longer called medium speed train
2. This is High-speed rail running 250 km/h and there would no longer be cargo train sharing the line
3. 100% Thai investment
4. Use technology from China

http://www.thaipost.net/?q=%E0%B8%95...B8%B5%E0%B9%89
http://www.innnews.co.th/shownews/show?newscode=698671
https://www.facebook.com/pr.railway/...36445623036972
Nevertheless, Chinese representative said

1. they still show some disagreement on the price - 170 billion Baht is quite too low - the final settlement on price will be settled on the 11th meeting in June 2016 after the preliminary price both Thailand and China possibly agree with will be done next week

2. Even though this project is 100% Thai investment, Engineering Procurement and Construction (EPC) will be separated into 2 sections

2.1 Main Infrastructure (EPC – 1) will be done by Thai contractors and there will be 4-5 contracts instead of just 2 contracts to deal with - started with Pak Chong - Khorat (Nakhon Ratchasima) first which is to be started in August - September 2016

2.2 the High Speed train and rail system including track laying (EPC - 2) willbe done by Chinese state enterprises with consent from Thai government which including detailed Construction Drawing for EPC-1 which is the information from detailed Construction Drawing for EPC-1 to pick Thai contractors to handle the jobs.

3. Traffic service will be done as a company to run the service by Thai railway men with Chinese helps on administration and management along with human resource development including training and maintenance on both rolling stocks and tracks so Thai railway men can run the services from the DAY ONE.

4. For the investment, the civil works will be financed from Thai resources. On the other hand, Thailand has agreed to borrow from Chinese resources if Chinese creditors offering the best deals.

5. This implication states that Thailand and China must amend Framework of Cooperation for be in line with changes of project details

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1463152514
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Old May 17th, 2016, 04:00 PM   #568
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Bangkok - Phitsanuloke
  • Distance: 384 km
  • Travel time: 1 hour 50 minutes
  • Ticket price: 640-1700 baht
  • Passengers: 30,200 passengers a day
  • EIRR: 13.39%
  • Investment: 212,893,31 million baht

Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchasima
  • Distance: 253 km
  • Travel time: 1 hour 16 minutes
  • Ticket price: 532 baht
  • Passengers: 14,658 passengers a day
  • EIRR: 14.95%
  • Investment: 176,598 million baht

Bangkok - Hua Hin
  • Distance: 211 km
  • Travel time: 1 hour 17 minutes
  • Ticket price: 385-1,044 baht
  • Passengers: 10,567 passengers a day
  • EIRR: 9.76%
  • Investment: 94,673,16 million baht

Bangkok - Rayong
  • Distance: 200 km
  • Travel time: 1 hour
  • Ticket price: 200 baht
  • Passengers: 13,200 passengers a day
  • EIRR: 13.26%
  • Investment: 152,528 million baht

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1463376590
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Old May 18th, 2016, 11:03 AM   #569
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BKK-Rayong 200 baht? That would be incredibly cheap. A bit hard to believe, given that the (now out of service) Airport Rail Link express line already did cost 150 baht.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 05:12 PM   #570
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BKK-Rayong 200 baht? That would be incredibly cheap. A bit hard to believe, given that the (now out of service) Airport Rail Link express line already did cost 150 baht.
More likely the case of subsidies as there are many Isan workers along eastern seaboard
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Old May 18th, 2016, 10:10 PM   #571
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I hope you are joking. To be frank I'm quite sure long-time subsidies will be necessary anyway to keep most of the enterprises afloat until they eventually become profitable some day (a big if, when you look at other countries - in Europe HSR has almost nowhere ever been profitable, same in China and Taiwan). But allowing poor people to travel for almost symbolic prices will drain the public coffers even more.
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Old May 19th, 2016, 03:45 AM   #572
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But allowing poor people to travel for almost symbolic prices will drain the public coffers even more.
What do you think should be the solution?
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Old May 19th, 2016, 06:04 AM   #573
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I hope you are joking. To be frank I'm quite sure long-time subsidies will be necessary anyway to keep most of the enterprises afloat until they eventually become profitable some day (a big if, when you look at other countries - in Europe HSR has almost nowhere ever been profitable, same in China and Taiwan). But allowing poor people to travel for almost symbolic prices will drain the public coffers even more.
the actual price is to compete with Low cost airline though. - If using 2 Baht per km into account, 400 Baht would be the right price though

The is still no decision on Thai - Japan railway yet even though there is a hint that the first phase is not likely to reach Phitsanuloke despite of the appeal from Thai government

Here is the information according to OTP studies which Japanese government showing disagreement:
1. First phase - Bangsue Central - Phitsanuloke 386 km with max speed of 300 kph with average speed of 210 kph with 7 stations - EIRR at 13.2 % with the investment of 212,893.31 Million Baht and the average ticket price is 2 Baht per km with the ticket price from Bangsue central to Phitsanuloke at 639 Baht and travel time of 1 hour and 45 minutes

2. Second phase - Phitsanuloke - Chiang Mai 299 km with 1 hour and 30 minutes - with the ticket price from Bangsue central to Chiang Mai at 1074 Baht - EIRR at 12.56 % with the investment of 214,005.25 Million Baht on this section - and the total investment would be 426,898.56 Million Baht
http://www.matichon.co.th/news/140513
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Last edited by Wisarut; May 19th, 2016 at 07:34 AM. Reason: Addendum
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Old May 19th, 2016, 09:16 AM   #574
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What do you think should be the solution?
Poorer people may continue to use the same means of transport as today. There is a (very low speed ) train BKK to Pattaya, last time I checked it was only 20 baht, if I remember it well. And there are plenty of much faster bus connections to the Eastern Seaboard with affordable prices.

SRT has seemingly forever been deep in the red and has always been highly dependent on subsidies. I understood that this very welcome modernization of the rather archaic Thai railway system had the intention to reduce the loss-making or even achieve overall profitability. It may not succeed, but they should at least try, and if they right from the start fix prices where they know subsidies will be necessary, then they aren't even trying to turn SRT into a "real" enterprise, i.e. a company that can stand on its own feet.
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Old May 19th, 2016, 08:23 PM   #575
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LOL The price of 200 baht is obviously wrong! How could you believe that such system can maintain that cost even with subsidise.

And no, HSR is by no mean for poor people, even middle class will struggle ( but still affordable ). If subsidise happen, it will only for the reason of keeping the operation afloat and not die in a deep red, same as Taiwanese HSR. Even with land utilisation won't be a guarantee that it will fix all the finance problem.

There is no airline the fly from BKK to the east ( Rayong ) so there is no need to compete with low cost airline on that route. HSR will be default choice for people who want speed. Even car won't travel this fast. So there is no point to fully subsidise it.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #576
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Of all HSR routes Bangkok - Rayong seems to me to be the most likely one to succeed financially, given sensible pricing. There should be a lot of tourism related demand. If this one doesn't become quickly profitable, then no other one will do.
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Old June 3rd, 2016, 02:54 AM   #577
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Cost overrun on Thai - Japan railway project from 440 billion Baht to 530 billion Baht since Japanese government making a clear point NOT to share the track with Thai - China railway - OTP never thought about political animosity between Japan and China has reached this level - so they ask for Japan to find the way to cut the cost while they have asked about the commercial development along the land strip as the way to compensate for cost overrun.
http://www.matichon.co.th/news/158267
http://www.thaipost.net/?q=%E0%B8%A1...B8%99%E0%B8%A5

Thai - Japan High Speed train shortened to Nakhon Sawan?
http://news.voicetv.co.th/business/372567.html

Thai - Japan High Speed train shortened to Lopburi?
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1464918787

After MOT and OTP said about the cost overrun on Thai - Japan high speed to Phitsanuloke and Chiang Mai along with solution to cut short to Nakhon Sawan, Chiang Mai Chamber of commerce pressuring both MOT and OTP to imprement High Speed train from Bang Sue central to Chiang Mai immediately as any delay will add another cost overrun.

Then, Chiang Mai people as well as Chiang Mai Chamber of commerce better make sure that Thai people are going to make a full commitment on this project by implementing it despite of the cost overrun
http://www.matichon.co.th/?p=159209&preview=true
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Old June 3rd, 2016, 06:00 PM   #578
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An estimate of the financial returns for a Thai-Japanese high-speed railway project linking Bangkok and Chiang Mai shows gloomy prospects.

Project co-investor Japan has told Thailand that a recent study of the route found the project is socially viable but is likely to fall short in revenue terms, Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said yesterday after meeting Japanís deputy chief for national railways.

To ease the financial concerns, Thailand needs to find ways to make use of areas along the 635km track to generate money, he said, referring to Japanís suggestion.

The Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning (OTTPP) has been assigned to devise a master plan setting out steps to develop areas alongside the route and build a transport network connecting with the rail line, Mr Arkhom said.
http://www.lettersfromthailand.com/r...w-returns.html
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Old June 4th, 2016, 12:53 PM   #579
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Quote:
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Quote:
An estimate of the financial returns for a Thai-Japanese high-speed railway project linking Bangkok and Chiang Mai shows gloomy prospects.
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Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Cost overrun on Thai - Japan railway project from 440 billion Baht to 530 billion Baht since Japanese government making a clear point NOT to share the track with Thai - China railway - OTP never thought about political animosity between Japan and China has reached this level - so they ask for Japan to find the way to cut the cost while they have asked about the commercial development along the land strip as the way to compensate for cost overrun.
Almost sounds as if the Japanese aren't really anymore interested in the project and trying to politely discourage the Thai side. Why on earth shouldn't they want cost-saving track sharing and instead impose such artificial difficulties? This is even weirder in the face of very low ROI expectations.
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Old June 5th, 2016, 10:18 AM   #580
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You don't want to mix high speed rail with other slower forms of rail transport, especially freight, as it defeats the purpose of high speed rail, which is to provide safe, high speed, and reliable intercity transport that is competitive with air travel. Also, running high speed trains on non grade separated track is to be avoided, as it increases risks of accidents, unless you want to run the trains no faster than current trains (120km/h?)
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