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Old June 8th, 2016, 06:26 AM   #601
Wisarut
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Yes, but this is a consequence of expanding road infrastructure. Cars can leave a highway at many points, it's an entirely different story. How could 50 km or more of rail tracks with no stopping point in between catalyze that much investment througout the route?

In Japan it makes sense to use HSR e.g. between Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya because these are cities with very extensive metro systems which perfectly complement the HSR. Same when travelling from Beijing to Shanghai and probably also in Taiwan. But not in Thailand, where the metro system in Bangkok is still comparably limited (even though rapidly expanding) and nonexistent outside Bangkok.
Extension of the road in question are the branch from BKK - Chonburi Motorway (Highway 7) and Onnut - Ladkrabang road in the North, the Branch of Bang Na - Bang Pakong at km 15 (from Bang Na) in the South, the access ways to Kingkaew road in the west though.

For the case of Donmueang is another matter as it has already has the rail access since the first day of Donmueang Airport by Siamese Army Aviation Dept (the embryo of Royal Thai Air Forces) - and the Phahonyothin has been added in 1936, Vibhavadee Rangsit highway has been added in 1966, Donmueang Tollway has been added in 1994-5 though ...

the distance of Airport Link from Phayathai to Suvannabhum is The 28.6 kilometers though and the other 26 km extension from Phayathai to Donmueang ...

Now, private sector in Khon Kaen want both Monorail and LRT networks for Khon Kaen city - even though it will be long way to go to have a line to Khon Kaen airport ... as there are a lot of Chinese businessmen settled in Khon Kaen City.

Sadly, the decision to set up Nakhon Ratchasima airport around Tha Chang area (40 km east of downtown Khorat city - opened in 1997) has caused a lot of hassle though ...
Let's see when Chiang Mai LRT will become a reality as it has to fight against those red minibuses run by the familiar organized crimes ... while Hatyai city Hall better impement Hatyai Monorail as soon as possible and negotiate with AOT to allow Hatyai Monorail to function as Airport Link as so many local people as well as tourists have pressed the demands as they can no longer stand with 300 Baht flat rate minibuses that go between Hatyai international airport and Hatyai city / Songkla city
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Old June 8th, 2016, 08:47 PM   #602
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Govt eyes shared rail link plan
8 Jun 2016 at 04:00 | WRITER: AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

Transport authorities are proposing a rail track-sharing idea to cut costs in the Bangkok-Chiang Mai high-speed train project, said a Transport Ministry source.

Under the plan, the Thai-Japanese 672km-line would share a length of railway line with the Thai-Chinese high-speed train project linking Bangkok and Nakhon Ratchasima, which will subsequently reduce the cost by 90 billion baht.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith has called a meeting with Japanese authorities to settle a disagreement on the project value -- 530 billion baht estimated by Tokyo, against 440 billion baht put up by Bangkok, the source said.

Japan's figures are higher because it suggested building the rail line from Bang Sue railway station in Bangkok to Chiang Mai while Thailand wants the track to start at Ban Phachi station in Ayutthaya, located north of the capital. In its initial study, the Transport Ministry proposed a section of rail between Bang Sue and Ban Phachi can share facilities with the Thai-Chinese project.

It is not only the cost issue that needs a decision, the source added. Thai authorities also are worried whether there is enough space for a new railway to be built on some parts of the route, where there are already rail links. Many lines appear to squeeze into limited areas running from Bang Sue to Don Muang and Rangsit, the source said.

However, it is difficult to talk Japan into changing the construction plan due to Japan's unique Shinkansen technology. "The Japanese technology cannot connect with the other rail technologies [of China and Europe]," the source said.

Chinese high-speed rail technology is more open. If the talks with Japan fail and Thailand still wants to push the rail track-sharing idea, it needs to discuss the plan with its Chinese counterpart, the source said.

"It may turn out that China needs to share a rail track with the Airport Rail Link extension," the source suggested, referring to the government's plan to build a new extended rail line linking Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi airports.


http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gene...rail-link-plan
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Old June 8th, 2016, 09:41 PM   #603
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I always wonder how these planning people operate. Didn't they know from start that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues?
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Old June 9th, 2016, 06:38 AM   #604
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I always wonder how these planning people operate. Didn't they know from start that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues?
I have never thought that those in OTP have ever known that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues. Even they did know, they still thought that European signal will solve compatibility issues.
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Old June 9th, 2016, 03:13 PM   #605
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I have never thought that those in OTP have ever known that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues. Even they did know, they still thought that European signal will solve compatibility issues.
They don't know European signals compatible with Chinese systems but not Japanese ones. EU is pressing Japan hard on this issue in recent EPA negotiations...
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Old June 9th, 2016, 03:32 PM   #606
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High-speed rail routes chosen for PPP fast track
9 Jun 2016 at 07:36 | WRITER: CHATRUDEE THEPARAT

Two high-speed rail projects, the 193.5-kilometre Bangkok-Rayong route worth 153 billion baht and the 211km Bangkok-Hua Hin route worth 94.7 billion, are set to be included for fast track consideration in the public-private partnership (PPP) scheme.

Transport Minister Arkhom Termpittayapaisith said the two were likely to be submitted for approval by the PPP committee by this month or next. If approved, they will be the sixth and seventh such projects.

Last November the government put five projects worth a combined 334 billion baht on the front burner under the PPP scheme, giving them a mandate to start in the second half this year.

They comprise three mass-transit routes in Bangkok: the Pink Line from Khae Rai to Min Buri, the Yellow Line from Lat Phrao to Samrong, and the Blue Line extension from Hua Lamphong to Bang Kae and Bang Sue to Tha Phra. The routes were worth a combined 194 billion baht, while two interprovincial motorways were worth 140 billion.

The two motorways will link Ayutthaya's Bang Pa-in district with Nakhon Ratchasima and Nonthaburi's Bang Yai district with Kanchanaburi.

The 1.435 metre-gauge high-speed rail linking Bangkok and Rayong is part of the government's Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) development plan that aims to build up Chon Buri, Rayong and Chachoengsao as locations for a high-technology industry cluster.

The cabinet is scheduled to consider the law governing special economic zones for EEC development over the next two weeks.

Mr Arkhom said the Bangkok-Rayong route is conducting an environmental impact assessment (EIA), while the Bangkok-Hua-Hin route's EIA is completed and pending approval by the National Environment Board.


The government aims to kick-start the construction of 20 megaprojects valued at 1.6 trillion baht this year as part of a plan to stimulate the economy.

The cabinet already approved 11 projects worth 460 billion baht that are expected to be completed by 2022. The proportion of private investment accounted for 25% of total investment. Eight projects are under construction.

He said the proportion of private investment in the infrastructure projects was likely to increase to 30% once the cabinet approved the two high-speed rail projects in the PPP fast-track scheme.

BTS Group chairman Keeree Kanjanapas urged the government to be more generous in wooing private investment, citing infrastructure projects as requiring massive investment with a long wait to receive a return.

He lauded the PPP scheme for allowing the private sector to play a greater role in infrastructure projects, which will reduce the government's financial burden.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/tran...ppp-fast-track
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Old June 9th, 2016, 07:33 PM   #607
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I have never thought that those in OTP have ever known that Shinkansen and Chinese technology have serious compatibility issues. Even they did know, they still thought that European signal will solve compatibility issues.
Great. If the responsible planning agency doesn't know the basics, then it's no wonder the whole process is such a mess. Aren't they already building Bang Sue station on the assumption that there will be HSR track sharing?
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Old June 10th, 2016, 08:19 AM   #608
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I don't know what's with the Japanese. Shinkansen technology can clearly run on European signal, as Taiwan has proven and is the exact thing they're trying to sell to USA. And it's not like CRC nor JR East or JR Tokai is going to operate the line. This unnecessary terms by the Japanese seems indicative of their sudden lack of interest rather than signal compatibility.
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Old June 10th, 2016, 06:30 PM   #609
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I don't know what's with the Japanese. Shinkansen technology can clearly run on European signal, as Taiwan has proven and is the exact thing they're trying to sell to USA. And it's not like CRC nor JR East or JR Tokai is going to operate the line. This unnecessary terms by the Japanese seems indicative of their sudden lack of interest rather than signal compatibility.
Taiwan HSR has EU(Siemens)/JP hybrid system and has some issues lately though (railroad switch,etc)....
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Old June 11th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #610
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Taiwan HSR has EU(Siemens)/JP hybrid system and has some issues lately though (railroad switch,etc)....
Well, we also mustn't forget that the original E2s run fine on China's network.
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Old June 13th, 2016, 01:42 PM   #611
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Reason behind the cost overrun from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai (669 km) from 450,000 Million Baht according to OTP to 546,000 Million Baht according to Japan is that Japanese government making a clear point to construct the separated tracks from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi (82.8 km)

Therefore, Japanese has given the following suggestion to deal with cost overrun issue:
1. Making the construction into 3 phases which Thailand has agreed with this idea as it has postponed some of unnecessary expenditure.
2. First phase started from Bangsue Central to Lopburi (the Northern limit of SRT commuter) as Japanese government have pointed out that Thailand will become full blown aging society on 2025 so the long travels are no longer necessary ... However, Thailand making a clear point that the first phase of High Speed train system must be about 200-250 km long.
3. the daily number of passenger during the first phase is still in dispute. Japanese said 45000 passengers a day on the first phase according to the study by OTP is too much due to the fact that Thailand will become full blown aging society on 2025 so the long travels are no longer necessary. However, Thailand has insisted this daily number of passenger at 45000 passengers a day due to the increasing internal migration of those new generations by High sped train and the set up of SMES in regional areas.

4. Japanese making a clear point to Thailand that Thai government MUST come up with the workable urban planning to set up mass transits to feed the High Speed train stations to increase the coverage of passengers along with commercial development around station areas as well as along the high speed trains to increase the number of passengers by more migration as well as the encouragement to set up more stations.

Furthermore, Thai government must invest on infrastructure while letting JV company with Private sector to run the train if state enterprise is not capable to run this high speed train.

MoT deputy permanent secretariat told Japanese partners that MoT is drafting the master plan on commercial development around 12 stations of High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Chiang Mai as Japanese partners have made such a request.

On the issue of cargo service along the existing line from Nong Pladuk to Laem CHabang along with the Northern line and North eastern line, there are still lots of issue that failed to meet the market demands [Read : Japanese investors and Japanese Industries in Thailand]. Therefore, the further studies are in need before setting up SPV to run cargo train from Kanchanaburi to Aranyaphrathet with a branch line to Laem Chabang deep sea port with a total distance of 574 km. At the time being, Thailand and Japan has set up the surveying and development of cargo rail transports at Toyota Tuso (Thailand) on 2 June 2016.

Furthermore, Japanese partners have pointed out that there are many ship from Cambodia are using Laem Chabang Deep Sea Port instead of Sihanukville Deep Sea Port but they want to ship their cargo to Poipet checkpoint via cargo rails.

Even more still, Japanese partners making a clear point that Thailand must improve the traffic on existing railway networks to be much more efficiency before setting up the traffic zoning along with connection and the access of under constructed red line commuters and Airport link before ever come up with bypass sections.

http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1465793259
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Old June 16th, 2016, 02:49 PM   #612
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Thai China railway is going to construct the first 3 km of 252.35 km Bangsue Central - Nakhon Rachasima line at Klang Dong station on Railway land in September 2016 - by asking Chinese government to finish Klang dong section in the next month - After the 11th negotiation, the number of stations has been fixed to 6 stations - Detailed design by Chinese government will be fully done in Feb 2017 - so Thai government will start bidding on the section which design has been done first
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel...=9590000060310

Somkid asking cabinet to finalize the plan for High speed train to Rayong
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel...=9590000058324
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Old June 16th, 2016, 10:05 PM   #613
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Construction of Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed train to begin in Sept
16 Jun. 2016 | 18:22

BANGKOK, 16 June 2016 (NNT) - The Thai - Chinese Train Committee has agreed to start constructing a 3.5-kilometer railroad in Nakhon Ratchasima in September this year.

Minister of Transport Arkhom Termpittayapaisith on Thursday attended a meeting with the committee. The meeting agreed to construct the first phase of the Bangkok – Nakhon Ratchasima high speed train at Klang Dong station located in a property of the State Railway of Thailand. The construction can start immediately and there is no need to build elevated structures to avoid mountains, said the minister.

The meeting also instructed a Chinese technical team to finish designing the projects within one month. Bidding for the project has been scheduled to take place in August and the construction will begin in September.

The rest four phases of the railroad will be jointly designed by Thai and Chinese technical teams who will periodically submit the project’s progress report to the committee.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/website_en...O5906160010029
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Old June 17th, 2016, 05:17 AM   #614
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There will be 4 sections for Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 252.35 km

1. Klang Dong Section 3.5 km at km.150+500 to km.154 +500 (more likely km. 154 +000) - design must be done in August 2016 and construction must be started in September 2016
2. 10 km - design must be done in October 2016
3. 120 km - design must be done in December 2016
4. 119 km - design must be done in February 2017

the list of 6 high speed train stations from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima are

1. Bangsue Central
2. Donmueang
3. Ayutthaya
4. Saraburi
5. Pak Chong
6. Nakhon Ratchasima

Even though the latest figure is 189,981 million Baht, Thai government and Chinese government will have to find the way to cut the cost to meet the goal of 179,000 million Baht - at least the cut of 7000 Million Baht must be met without cutting further number of stations even though the cut of 10,000 Million Baht is necessary
http://www.matichon.co.th/news/176571
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel...=9590000060538
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Old June 17th, 2016, 04:49 PM   #615
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Great. If the responsible planning agency doesn't know the basics, then it's no wonder the whole process is such a mess. Aren't they already building Bang Sue station on the assumption that there will be HSR track sharing?
No - The original plan was done when HSR was still designed to be fully invested by Thai government via open international bidding, which means track sharing could happen using the same HSR technology for both lines. Everything was clearly planned out at that point.

Yes - It just become a mess when the new gov decided to give those 2 tracks to both Chinese and Japanese, without thinking in advance that it's possible for either Chinese or Japanese to refuse sharing the same track , or adapt to use the shared european signalling. It's when political view taking over the engineering and now cause a massive problem.
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Old June 17th, 2016, 09:40 PM   #616
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Yes - It just become a mess when the new gov decided to give those 2 tracks to both Chinese and Japanese, without thinking in advance that it's possible for either Chinese or Japanese to refuse sharing the same track , or adapt to use the shared european signalling. It's when political view taking over the engineering and now cause a massive problem.
More likely, those in OTP never take the political animosity between Japan and China into account at all so they failed to take the cost overrun by extra tracks into account ... for the political issue, it is the way Junta has learnt very hard way that they way they thought that it is the way to cut down the cost actually adding extra cost which is beyond their thoughts .... and give a rude shock ... not to mention about that political animosity which Thai government have never Directly experienced - other than the day of Great Games
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Old June 18th, 2016, 05:07 AM   #617
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More likely, those in OTP never take the political animosity between Japan and China into account at all so they failed to take the cost overrun by extra tracks into account ...
I think it is less to do with the political animosity. Japan won't share tracks even if it is built by European companies. The signaling systems are simply not compatible
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Old June 18th, 2016, 12:13 PM   #618
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Now, Post Today has given further details on High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima

1. Section 1: Klang Dong - Pang Asok at km 150 + 000 - km 154 + 500 on the existing Railway land along this section - with the design must be done by the end of August 2016 so as to start bidding and construction in September 2016

2. Section 2: 6 km east of Pak Chong station - Klong Khananchit station at km 179- km 189 as tunnel section with the design must be done by the end of October 2016 so as to start bidding and construction in November 2016

3. Section 3: from Kaeng Khoi to Nakhon Ratchasiam (km 119 - km 253.250) which cover the connection of the first 2 unconnected section - with the design must be done by the end of December 2016 so as to start bidding and construction in January 2017. Actually, Section 3 consists of 3 separated sections including

3.1 Section 3A Kaeng Khoi - Klang Dong (km 119 - km 150) AKA Dong Phraya Yen Section -
3.2 Section 3B Pang Asok - Bundai Mah - Pak Chong (km 154 + 500 - km 179) AKA Pakchong - Sikhiw section
3.3 Section 3C Klong Khananchit - Nakhon Ratchasima (km 189 - km 253 + 250) AKA Khorat section


4. Section 4: Bangsue central - Kaeng Khoi (km 0+000 - km 119) - with the design must be done by the end of February 2017 so as to start bidding and construction in March 2017 - this is the most serious section of all as it has to have the accommodation for both Thai - China high speed train with the vacant space for Thai - Japan high speed train on the first 82.8 km section from Bangsue Central to Ban Phachi - and Ayutthaya is the station that need to have extra platforms to accommodate both Thai - China High speed train and Thai - Japan High Speed train - after all Japanese have invested a lot in Rojana Industrial Estate in Ayutthaya city Island. Furthermore, the old Ayutthaya station dated 1921-1922 must be preserved.
http://www.posttoday.com/biz/gov/438130
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Old June 19th, 2016, 03:45 PM   #619
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Build first, then plan.

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Although the decision to first bid for and construct only 3.5 km pf the route "might seem new and strange for this large project", it "isn't against the investment principles" and the ministry thinks it won't have to wait until both sides can decide on the entire project, the source said. The sooner any part of the project can begin, the more likely the government will implement bilateral cooperation to develop Thailand's first high-speed rail route, the source said.

The source claimed construction of the 3.5 km section of the route is estimated to cost 1.5 billion baht, while the entire project is estimated to cost 163 billion baht. Thailand and China, however, could not reach agreement as to who should shoulder the cost of redesigning the project after it had been changed from a maximum speed of 250 kph to 180 kph. The cost of the redesign is estimated to come to three billion baht. Thailand will likely have to pay for it as China had only agreed to pay for the first design, the source said.

Sangwon Liptapanlop, president of the Thai Contractors Association, said it was strange the government wanted to press ahead with the project without any certainty about the implementation. "A project of this large scale should have waited until a clear plan to implement it is ready and clear sub-contracts for construction are drafted so that the interested bidders can be confident in it," he said.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gene...ct-accelerates
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 01:31 PM   #620
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Thai government has made a clear determination that Thai - Japan High Speed train to Chiang Mai must get the first phase from Bangsue Central to Phitsanuloke with the distance of 384 km before embarking the 2nd phase from Phitsanuloke to Chiang Mai with the distance of 289 km.

Thai government have agreed with Japanese government on commercial development along with this high speed train line - with the detailed design started in 2017 to be finished in 2018 so as to call a bidding by the end of 2018 - as they have realized that even the first section will take 3-4 years to be done. The development of Thai - Japan high speed train must be done within 5 years instead of 10 years.

http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel...=9590000062869
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