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Old November 24th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #661
Wisarut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
how likely is the southern section to pedang besar to be approved before 2020?
It is likely that it would need to wait until the first phase (Bangsue central - Hua Hin) high speed trains are done first - so the approval will be around 2022 or so.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 06:15 PM   #662
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Fair way off however it is promising that there is a long term plan for the corridor.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 06:14 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
Fair way off however it is promising that there is a long term plan for the corridor.

According to the latest news, the TOR drafting for High Speed train from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin at Bo Fai (211 km) will be started in 1st Quarter of 2017 with a hope to realize High Speed train in 2024 - and it would take an hour for travelling from Bangsue Central to Hua Hin with max speed of 250 kph

EIRR of Bangsue Central to Hua Hin is at 8.11%
EIRR of Bangsue Central to Padang Besar via Hua Hin is at 12.76%

the government want 100% investment on this route with a price tag of 94 billion Baht - 13000 passengers a day - ticket price at 560 Baht per trip (Bangsue central - Hua Hin) - with 3 year construction

There will be 5 stations for Bangsue Central - Hua Hin High Speed Train (221 km) though -
1. Bangsue Central,
2. Nakhon Pathom at the existing Nakhon Pathom station,
3. Rajburi station at Ban Khoo Bua (3 km South the existing Rajburi station),
4. Phetburi station on Phetkasem road (western end of Phetburi city municipal),
5. Hua Hin station at Bo Fai near Hua Hin Airport (4 km North of existing Hua Hin station)

Regular service will run with 2 hour interval while rush hour will be 1 hour interval.

If the government wants to implement the routes from Bangsue to Padang Besar, there will be 3 phases to be done:
1. Bangsue Central - Hua Hin at 98000 Million Baht
2. Hua Hin - Surat Thani at 235000 Million Baht
3. Surat Thani - Padang Besar at 197000 Million Baht
total: 530000 Million Baht

If the high speed train has been opened in 2024, EIRR will be as follows:
1. Bangsue Central - Hua Hin at 6.34%
2. Bangsue - Surat Thani at 9.39%
3. Bangsue - Padang Besar at 10.42%

Revenue will be from commercial leasing at 138 million Baht, parking lots revenue at 1.49 million Baht, advertising inside the high speed train at 7 million Baht and advertising within the station areas at 10 million Baht

It would be better to give 50 year concession to private sector since 30 year concession according to the Civil Code means a great loss (negative FIRR - Minus 10.32% for Bangsue - Padang Besar) - not a good incentive for private sector at all while 50 year concession gives better result (positive FIRR - 1.18% for Bangsue - Padang Besar)- better give 30+20 concession or 30+30 year with a condition for automatic extension of concession by extending the line to Padang besar to entice private sector to invest in this project.

Furthermore, the results has shown that Government should invest on infrastructure while private sector investing on EMU and telecom system as the way to boost FIRR to the point that FIRR will be positive (Plus 5.18% for Bangsue - Padang Besar).

For the first year of operation (year 2024), Bangsue Central - Hua Hin will earn about 5000 Million Baht but the revenue will be boost to 10000 Million Baht in 2070 ... due to the climbing number of daily passengers - ( 9571 men a day 2029, 11000 men a day in 2039, 16000 passengers a day in 2049)

http://www.thansettakij.com/2016/11/24/114409
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Old November 27th, 2016, 05:07 PM   #664
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Some of valuable viewpoints:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuen Ngai
From my viewpoints given inside Jom Naik Keretapi: First, locating the Hua Hin HSR station at Bo Fai may not be convenient for passengers heading towards to town centre area; would it be better if the authorities consider to intergrate (fuse) the Hua Hin Airport with the proposed HSR station,
and at the same time divert the conventional SRT Southern Line to serve as the feeder the Bo Fai (Hua Hin) Airport and HSR Station ? Next, running the railway is no easy business, as it had the additional responsibility and burden of having to regularly maintain the railway infrastructure on their own.
Does the private sector have the financial capability to sustain ? And for the Government investment on the infrastructure, is the funding from the State Treasury again or through loans from Government-owned banks again ? Should the Government decide to allow private sectors to be involved in this project by investing on EMU and telecom systems (the E&M), how should the entity be set up ? A special state-owned enterprise of 50:50 stake or 51:49 stake ? And the Government must be very alert and mindful of the rolling stock technology the private sector want to introduce as well; whilst if it was totally under the Government the choice would have been between Japanese Shinkansen or Chinese technologies, who knows if the private sector wanted to introduce European technologies, such as TGV, AGV, Velaro, and (unsightly) Spanish Pato technologies, instead ? Lastly, why not consider for a special 99-year concession to induce private sector to run and extend the line all the way into Padang Besar ? --- In addition, any idea when is the projected year of the completion of the HSR all the way into Padang Besar ? Last but not least, after the HSR lines in Thailand and Malaysia were joined at Padang Besar, don't forget to ban Malaysian trains from crossing the border into Thailand - and entitle only the Thai trains to cross the border; this is necessary in order to revenge on Malaysia KTMB's abuse on Thailand's SRT by refusing to allow SRT to add more pairs of diesel railcar shuttles under the excuse of needing all the slots for international cargo trains at the current moment. cc Khun Wisarut

And how do you think about my proposed train operation arrangements after the lines were truly interconnected at Padang Besar, where in my proposal only Thai trains are eligible to cross the border, good idea ?
https://www.facebook.com/yuen.ngai/p...10038809154001


Reason behind the choice for high speed train stations like this:
1. Nakhon Pathom - the chosen theme of Phra Prathom Chedi - the giant pagoda at the downtown Nakhon Pathom City has ruled out any other area from becoming High speed train station for Natkhon Pathom - for the issue of land development, SRT has no choice but to cooperate with Crown Properties Bureau (owner of the market in front of Nakhon Pathom station).
2. Rajburi at Ban Khoo Bua (3 km south of existing Rajburi station) - the area around Ban Khoo Bua is mostly paddy fields so it has given more room for land development. On the other hand, the existing Rajburi station has ONLY the area around SRT men housing and the old locomotive depot and turntable which is not adequete and the prices for purchasing the land withi Rajburi city is too high, so OTP has decided to construct Rajburi high speed train station at Ban Khoo Bua instead
3. Phetburi station at the western edge of Phetburi city (2 km west of existing Phetburi station) - this is due to the technical requirement of widening curve and the existing Phetburi station is very closed to a narrow curve, so the high speed train must go through Phetkasem Highway (Highway 4) which is the western edge of Phetburi city municipal instead
4. Hua Hin station at Bo Fai (4 km north of existing Hua Hin station), the very reason behind this is due to the fact that the existing Hua hin station yard has reached the limit due the planned construction of the new and elevated Hua Hin station building without destroying the historical Hua Hin station building since the section within Hua Hin city municipal need to be elevated track after the rising traffic jam and Hua Hin city need to be expanding - Using railway land at Royal Hua Hin Golf Course is not enough, so Hua Hin high speed train will have to be located at Bo Fai near Hua Hin Airport (AKA Bo Fai airport) to accommodate the expanding Hua Hin city ... At least, the area around Klai Kangwon palace and vincinity have to be preserved as Klai Kangwon palace and vicinity are considered as sanctuary according to Hua Hin people. This should compell SRT to revive Bo Fai station which has been shut down since 1993 so that the existing trains will make a stop and function as feeder to downtown Hua Hin city.

For the private section who eye on High Speed train to Hua Hin, Billionaire Charoen of Thai Bev (also owner of Big C Thailand) is the first one - next on the line is Billionaire Thanin of CP Group (also owner of 7-11 Thailand) since both billionairs have not just hugh amount of wealth, they have political influence in the way that political parties and Junta cannot afford to ignore their requests while both are the rivals for their food and retailing business. The issue of Padang besar station will be the bitter bone of contention for sure.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 04:15 PM   #665
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Settlement - High Speed train to Chiang Mai running on the separated tracks while Thai - China railway running on Airport Link extension - need to modify Bangsue Central to realize such an arrangement
http://manager.co.th/iBizChannel/Vie...=9590000119895

Thai - China Railway will be signed in March 2017 since the decoding of specification to meet international standards will be done in Jan 2017 - but at this time the whole length to Nong Khai - but Chinese loan still 2.3% in Dollar denomination and 2.8% in Renminbi denomination
http://www.prachachat.net/news_detai...sid=1480685989
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Old December 6th, 2016, 07:16 AM   #666
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Here is the full details on Thai - China Railway - the way to get around with the issue of the cost overrun from 400 billion Baht to 530 billion Baht due to the fact that Chinese government want 800 Baht daily wage while Thai government want 300 Baht daily wage
1. split the construction into 2 phases - and cut down the construction cost from 530 billion Baht by 160 billion Baht
1.1 First phase
1.1.1. Bangsue Central - Kaeng Khoi - 118.142 km - double tracks - becoming Section 4 with the distance of 119 km
1.1.2. Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima 134.213 km - double tracks - this section has been split to 3 sections
1.1.2.1 Klang Dong - Pang Asok on existing railway land - 3.5 km - started with the first permanent way of 200 million Baht and the laying of corner stone at Klang Dong will be held on X-Mas day of 2016 (25 Dec 2016)
1.1.2.2 Pak Chong - Klong Khananchit - 11 km
1.1.2.3 Kaeng Khoi - Nakhon Ratchasima (excluding the 3.5 km + 11 km) - 119 km km

However, Chinese government must decode the construction materials to be according to what Thai contractors have used to get the right mean prices by Jan 2017 for bidding which has to be held in Feb 2017 before signing the agreement in March 2017

1.2 Second phase
1.2.1. Nakhon Ratchasima - Nong Khai - 354.090km - single track with the option for double track - but has to be postponed since Thai government has made a clear statement that the first section from Bangsue Central to Nakhon Ratchasima will have to be paid by Thai government - definitely to prevent further conflict with Thai - Japan railway and cut down the price tag to 179,412.21 Million Baht instead of 190 billion Baht according to Chinese government estimation
1.2.2 Kaeng Khoi - Map Ta Phut - 238.829 km
2. All cargo trains from China must have break of the gauge at Nong Khai - SRT is going to run regular cargo services from Nong Khai to Laem Chabang via the existing Nong Khai - Bua Yai - Lum Narai - Kaeng Khoi - Klong 19 - Chachoengsao - Laem Chabang route

2. for the issue of land development along Railway land, Thai government making a clear statement to Chinese government that Railway land can never give away to Chinese government in the same way those Japanese have done to create South Manchuria Railway Zone. Chinese government must pay 30-year lease on existing Railway land if they want to do commercial development - even with extension as both Chinese government and Thai government can agree with

http://www.posttoday.com/biz/gov/468422
http://www.manager.co.th/iBizChannel...=9590000121099
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Old December 6th, 2016, 08:48 AM   #667
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Are the Chinese built railways using standard gauge?
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Old December 6th, 2016, 10:05 AM   #668
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Quote:
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Are the Chinese built railways using standard gauge?
Yah since the specification is 250 kph for passenger trains
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Old December 6th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #669
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That is high speed then

When can we reasonably expect to see phase two completed from Nong Kai to Bangkok?
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Old December 6th, 2016, 06:10 PM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
That is high speed then

When can we reasonably expect to see phase two completed from Nong Kai to Bangkok?
A few years after the first section (Bangsue central - nakhon Ratchasima) is opened for passenger services
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Old December 7th, 2016, 07:55 AM   #671
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So phase one will be in commercial operation before phase starts construction?
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Old December 7th, 2016, 07:18 PM   #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunming tiger View Post
So phase one will be in commercial operation before phase starts construction?
Hope to get it done and opened in 2022
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Old February 8th, 2017, 07:29 AM   #673
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Now, even Indonesian correspondents starting to talk about the rivalry between Japanese rail business vs Mainland Chinese rail business to strike a deal for the High Speed train from Bangkok (Bangsue Central) to Padang Besar via Hua Hin
http://properti.kompas.com/read/2017...na.atau.jepang
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Old February 8th, 2017, 08:26 AM   #674
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Sounds like the link is inevitable in the future.
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Old February 8th, 2017, 03:45 PM   #675
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Thailand, Malaysia to start talks on 1,500km route

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Econ...-speed-railway



BANGKOK -- Thailand and Malaysia are set to start talks on the construction of a 1,500km high-speed railway that would connect the two countries' capitals and enhance regional connectivity.

Arkhom Termpittayapaisiht, Thailand's transport minister, told the Nikkei Asian Review that he hopes to meet with his Malaysian counterpart soon. "We will discuss how we can get foreign countries involved in the project like 'China or Japan' or 'China and Japan,'" he said. "But Malaysia seems to have more favor in China."

The Bangkok-Kuala Lumpur route is a large section of the pan-Asia railway network plan -- initially proposed by former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad at a 1995 meeting of leaders of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

The idea was to build a rail network that runs all the way from Singapore, to the southern Chinese city of Kunming, through Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos.

Much of the existing rail network is old and unsuitable for high speed trains. Modernization work is underway to improve mobility of people and goods and help boost the regional economy.

"ASEAN cities should be connected by high speed rail," Arkhom said, adding that, unlike air routes, a railway connection "can promote cities along the railway line."

China involvement

Today, the concept chimes closely with Chinese leader Xi Jinping's Belt and Road initiative, which aims to create an economic corridor from Asia to Europe by developing overland and maritime routes.

Chinese involvement in regional transport networks is on the increase. A railway link between Kunming and the Laotian capital Vientiane is now under construction. This will connect with another line that China is involved in, linking Nong Khai on the Thai side of the border with Bangkok.

It is hard to imagine Beijing will not jump to attention if Thailand and Malaysia seek help for the planned high-speed railway. Japan is also eager to export its shinkansen bullet train technology. The shinkansen is already up and running in Taiwan and there are deals signed in India and Thailand. In 2015, however, Japan lost out to China in the race for Indonesia's high-speed rail project.

Japan and China are also currently vying for the Singapore-Kuala Lumpur line, which will be the first cross-border high-speed railway project in Southeast Asia. The Singaporean and Malaysian governments have agreed for the 350km long railway to start operations by 2026. The proposed Kuala Lumpur-Bangkok route would extend the line all the way through the Malay Peninsula.

The route is currently served by low-speed trains that run on 1-meter gauge tracks. High-speed trains would require a new set of 1.4m standard-gauge tracks to be built, Arkhom said.

"But if we cannot put in much investment, we will just go on our existing 1-meter gauge," he added. As a primary action plan, Arkhom said that Thailand is looking to electrify the diesel trains that run between the southern Thai city of Hat Yai and Kuala Lumpur this year. "We only have limited resources," he said.

Shinkansen "very expensive"

Thailand currently has two other high speed railway projects in the pipeline, for which funding has been a constant headache.

Regarding the shinkansen project, Arkhom said that Thailand is planning to propose the Japanese side shoulder part of the investment through a joint venture.

Based on Japanese studies, the proposed cost for the entire 670km connecting Bangkok and Chiang Mai is estimated at around 500 billion baht ($14.2 billion), which Arkhom describes as "very expensive." The China-backed railway project linking the Laotian border and the Thai capital covers a longer distance of 873km but is set to cost just 379 billion baht.

"[The plan from] the Japanese team is based on Japanese standards but ... [the railway] will not be in Japan and we are not as rich as the Japanese," Arkhom said, arguing that Japan should compromise on standards other than safety, to "make it happen in this country."

A joint venture would be a "win-win solution," he suggested. The investment ratio would be further discussed. "In order to make sure that the [shinkansen] technology is with us forever, why don't you come in and run the project together?"

Construction is planned to take place in two phases. The first, linking Bangkok and Phitsanoluk and covering 380km, will start in 2019. Work on the latter half is scheduled to begin a year later. The entire route is planned for completion by 2023.

Meanwhile, the Sino-Thai project will call for the first round of bidding for construction in March. This, however, will cover merely the first 3.5km of the entire project. "If you want to see the project going, we have to start with the small part," Arkhom said.

Thailand last year said it would finance the project itself, focusing just on the 250km section between Bangkok and the northeastern city of Nakhon Ratchasima, after failing to agree loan interest rates with China.

Arkhom said that the remaining 620km, from Nakhon Ratchasima to Nong Khai is still on the table. "We have to keep this project alive as promised, although there may be some delays."

Negotiations for Chinese loans are also continuing. The latest agreement is that China will lend money for the imported materials on the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima section. The interest rate, however, is still higher than the rates provided by other financial organizations such as the Asian Development Bank, he said, with the last offer at 2.3% for loans in either yuan or U.S. dollars.

In addition, Arkhom said that China is asking for development rights for land along the railway as well as an agreement to let China take concession of other development projects in Thailand if the railway project fails. "We don't agree," Arkhom said. "The project is in Thailand and we have the sole rights for it. They cannot take the benefit of the project."
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Old February 20th, 2017, 09:08 PM   #676
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Issue of market sound has delayed bangsue Central - Hua Hin high speed train while they also raising the issue on the land development around Khao Chee Jan Junction
http://www.dailynews.co.th/economic/556888
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Old April 19th, 2017, 08:40 AM   #677
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Plan to turn Airport Link extension to accommodate High Speed train while connecting 3 airports together - Donmueang International Airport, Suvannabhum International Airport and U-Tapao International Airport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yE5KtZ5nL0
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Old May 5th, 2017, 04:45 PM   #678
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Need JICA studies on the station area developments around High Speed train stations as the way to ensure profitability of the project - along with the plan for airport link extension to connect Donmueang, Suvannabhum, and U-Tapao together. This has effectively postponed BKK - Rayong highspeed train. This measure are to ensure that the new High Speed train networks is going to please Japanese expats in Ayutthaya, Chiang Mai, Rayong, Chonburi (Sri Racha and Pataya) along with the particular provinces including Ayutthaya, Chonburi, Chiang Mai, Sukhothai or so
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/145617


Need further study on Thai - China railway since it has not include the case of great loss
http://m.posttoday.com/biz/gov/493164
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Last edited by Wisarut; May 5th, 2017 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Addendum
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Old May 8th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisarut View Post
Need JICA studies on the station area developments around High Speed train stations as the way to ensure profitability of the project - along with the plan for airport link extension to connect Donmueang, Suvannabhum, and U-Tapao together. This has effectively postponed BKK - Rayong highspeed train. This measure are to ensure that the new High Speed train networks is going to please Japanese expats in Ayutthaya, Chiang Mai, Rayong, Chonburi (Sri Racha and Pataya) along with the particular provinces including Ayutthaya, Chonburi, Chiang Mai, Sukhothai or so
http://www.thansettakij.com/content/145617


Need further study on Thai - China railway since it has not include the case of great loss
http://m.posttoday.com/biz/gov/493164
So Japan will be building the chiang mai line as well as the rayong hsr line?
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Old May 8th, 2017, 08:24 PM   #680
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So Japan will be building the chiang mai line as well as the rayong hsr line?
Well, the section from Bang Sue Central to Chiang Mai via Phitsanuloke has been designated for Japan but the section from bangsue Central to Pataya is another issue as it requires the tunnel digging when it has to pass Chitladda Royal Station -
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