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Old March 30th, 2013, 12:17 AM   #1
piotr71
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Former trunk roads

This thread is dedicated to all these roads, which do not meet their initial purpose anymore. Routes, which some time in the past, worked as trunk roads carrying huge number of vehicles every day and now, in many cases are not even important in regional terms. Do you know such road in your or neighbouring country? If so, do not hesitate to tell us its history or even post its picture.

One of the best example would be French N1. That road, until construction of nearby motorway A16, worked as main corridor connecting Northern France with Paris, as well as in some parts connecting United Kingdom through Calais with Benelux and Germany. Some time go I had captured some pics of the latter also its Belgian sister N39. By the way, French bit is not numbered N1 anymore, its D601 now.

A map.


And another much pricier map (comes from pmaciej7's archives and hopefully he does not mind I use it here). We can see exact N1 track on it.

Quote:
source
Some pictures.












Aerial. There is a canal in between carriageways.


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Old March 30th, 2013, 12:56 AM   #2
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The entire world is full with roads that used to be main roads and became 2nd class (local-regional) roads after motorways, expressways, city bypasses had been built.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #3
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That's true, however although I experienced plenty of them, still have not seen many and think it might be a good idea to group and put most interesting examples in one designated section. Such an idea may inspire some to see unknown.

Cigacice, Poland.

A bridge seen in the background was a most dangerous part of former European route E14. There was large hump on the entrance to the bridge. Many cars lost their suspension there. Since S3 opening and constructing new bridge over Odra river this road lost its importance.







Sourced from Panoramio.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 01:47 AM   #4
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Well, pick any motorway in the world, look at the map and ask yourself: how would you drive from one end of the motorway to the other, if there were no motorway? >90 % of the cases, you'll find the road you were asking.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 01:48 AM   #5
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I present the Netherlands:

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Old March 30th, 2013, 02:17 AM   #6
piotr71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
Well, pick any motorway in the world, look at the map and ask yourself: how would you drive from one end of the motorway to the other, if there were no motorway? >90 % of the cases, you'll find the road you were asking.
Well, would you found this ancient sign or this one if I have not posted those pictures? Would you know about the hump on the bridge I mentioned about? Or do you know which of them lost its importance in favour to another: A30 to A 303 or the other way round. None of them is motorway.

If we think this way it wouldn't be an obvious reason to open threads about border crossings, trucks, fuel prices or roads in Africa. All information and pictures can be found in the internet and countless number of roads can be followed using street view.

I do not know if the thread will last or will die soon, but for now I am going to share my knowledge and experience related to the subject, also ask questions in case I do not know something. Unless moderators will decide to close this section.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 05:53 AM   #7
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Frankly, I'm only interested in the former main roads in Slovenia and to the first city behind the border, but sometimes I'm interested in them in cases where new motorways were built during my lifetime. For example, I was in Split (HR) in 2005 for the first time in my life. I went there on the new A1, but went back to Ljubljana on D8 (map nostalgia ). I have yet to drive there on D1. I'm much less interested in former Italian main roads, because they built their motorways very early (and the Po Valley is flat and boring anyway). I find former main roads through cities more interesting.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 09:22 PM   #8
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Breda, Netherlands, in the 70s:



(Former) E37 and E38 used to run straight through the city.

Same location today: http://goo.gl/maps/1329K
And the A58/E312 motorway that "replaced" the old route: http://goo.gl/maps/wZ51Z
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Old March 31st, 2013, 01:20 AM   #9
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Finland

Finland introduced the first version of the road classification scheme in 1938. It was a two-level one: The primary main roads carried numbers 1-29, and the secondary ones numbers 51-82. The current scheme contains five levels: Those mentioned (the lower limit of the secondary main roads is nowadays 40), and regional roads (three digits), and two levels of connection roads (four and five digits).

As the network of 1938 was old-fashioned basd of agricultural requirements, the whole network was rebuilt mainly in the years 1946-1970. Thus, it is rather easy a task to say which of the main roads of 1938 are in their initial use: None of them, with a few exceptions of some pre-1938 brigdes still in use.

What happened to the old roads after the new ones were ready: Some of those have survived as part of the lower network, some of them are local roads or streets, or as private roads, and some of those are just abandoned.


Section of an ancient road dating back to middle-ages in Hattula. Road 3 in 1938-1962. Abandoned in about 1970 when the current road 57 was complete.

I have done some research on what is the current state of the intersections of the old main roads. Samples:


Helsinki, Pitäjänmäki. The intersection of roads 1,2 and 3 until late 1950's. Nowadays intersection of the regional road 110 and a street.


Pälkäne, Kyllö: The earlier intersection of the roads 3 and 12. Helsinki to the right (now a private road), and Lahti to the left (now road 13959).

BTW, the current interchange of the same roads in Nokia looks somewhat different:




Hämeenlinna, Kankaantaka. The earlier intersection of roads 3 and 10. Helsinki behind and Turku to the left (currently road 2862).

There are a few places which have retained their status as the intersection of two main roads, but the number of both of the roads have changed. A few to mention: Padasjoki (earlier 4 and 58, now 24 and 53), Viinijärvi (was 17 and 70, now 9 and 23), and Tampere West (was 3 and 9, now 12 and 65).

Another interesting topic is to follow if downgraded routes have been able to resume their status as a main road. Only two cases show an earlier primary main road returning back after being downgraded: The road 9 Tampere-Turku was dowgraded to 41 after the current alignment was complete. In 1996, the section Tampere-Huittinen received its current status of a primary main road after extending the route 12 to the west coast. The second one is a complex case: The southeast section of the road 18 was dropped because the south part of the road was lost to the Soviet Union. The replacement road from Lappeenranta to Joensuu got the number 6 and the remaining section to the border got the number 490. Later, if was upgraded to 70, and nowadays it is the eastmost section of the road 9.¨

A few of downgraded primary main roads are now secondary main road after their years of lower grade roads, such as Helsinki-Tuusula-Hyvinkää (4-137-45), Kangasala-Orivesi (9-324-58), Lammi-Padasjoki (4-319-53), and Hämeenlinna-Pälkäne (3-305-57).
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Old March 31st, 2013, 05:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB1981 View Post
Breda, Netherlands, in the 70s:



(Former) E37 and E38 used to run straight through the city.

Same location today: http://goo.gl/maps/1329K
And the A58/E312 motorway that "replaced" the old route: http://goo.gl/maps/wZ51Z
Annoying how they downgrade roads even though there is no point, from the drivers perspective, even if it's not a main road 2x2 is nicer to drive on than a crappy 2x1 road!
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Old March 31st, 2013, 02:25 PM   #11
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Former Spanish N-I motorway through Alcobendas:



It was re-routed in the 90s through a bypass further from Alcobendas and San Sebastián de los Reyes. Some parts are more recognizable, but most of it has been turned to an urban boulevard and through traffic has to turn off the main road to follow former N-I. These is one of the most untouched stretches:



This is former N-III freeway through Arganda del Rey:



And this is former N-IV close to Aranjuez:



Former Spanish trunk roads that lead nowhere (stretches that cross no towns or villages and thus have been replaced by a motorway) are mostly in derelict condition, as no maintenance is performed on them anymore. Some towns have refurbished the roads going through them when these have been bypassed, adding parking spaces, fancy furniture and lower speed limits. It's sad though how badly it has been done in some other places. Check out the approach of old N-IV to Ocaña:



These used to be a freeway in which both carriageways followed separate routes. It was bypassed long ago, so the local council decided to just "throw" a bicycle lane... on both carriageways! So there are now two lanes for cars and four for bicycles. The road hasn't even been repaved.

I just wonder how easy it is to have a road suitable for all kinds of traffic (with a separate path for bicycles and pedestrians, like in The Netherlands or Germany) and how many wrong approaches have Spanish traffic authorities done to it. It's just nonsense.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 07:07 AM   #12
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https://maps.google.fi/?ll=61.451281...42272&t=m&z=15

Here's an old cloverleaf (!) interchange in Pori, Finland, built for the highways 2 and 11. 11 is still there, 2 has been moved by 1 km to west and the old road has been renumbered 2551. Street view can be used. The design is pretty outdated, all ramps have level crossings with bicycle ways...

It's hard to imagine that a cloverleaf has ever been justifiable. Highway 11 was built here in the 1950s, when Pori population was about 50,000 - now it is about 80,000. For comparison's sake, the current interchange between 2 and 11 can be seen on the same map.

Current AADTs: 2 north of 11: 18,000; 2 south of 11: 13,000; 11 east of 2: 5,000. 11 terminates here, to west there's only a minor local road. I've no idea what the AADTs were back then. Considering the changes of population and the amount of cars, they were probably just a fraction of today's.

The highways 2 and 11 connect Pori with Helsinki and Tampere, respectively. Locally, 2 and 2551 both serve the neighbour city Ulvila (population about 13,000).
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
https://maps.google.fi/?ll=61.451281...42272&t=m&z=15

Here's an old cloverleaf (!) interchange in Pori, Finland, built for the highways 2 and 11. 11 is still there, 2 has been moved by 1 km to west and the old road has been renumbered 2551. Street view can be used. The design is pretty outdated, all ramps have level crossings with bicycle ways...

It's hard to imagine that a cloverleaf has ever been justifiable. Highway 11 was built here in the 1950s, when Pori population was about 50,000 - now it is about 80,000. For comparison's sake, the current interchange between 2 and 11 can be seen on the same map.
Unfortunately, this is not 100% correct.

That intersection is not the interchange of the road 11 and the former release of the road 2. As you can see on the map from 1962, the current road 2551 does not exist, but the roads 11 (SW-E in the middle) and 2 (at the lower left corner) are at their current position. The current road network is show in dashed blue:



The older route of the road 2 was located more eastward (S-N turning to W), and it was later cut into pieces because of expansion of the industrial area:



The junction in question was not a cloverleaf initially. I do not have a record about its original year of construction. Anyway, in the maps up to 1982, its type is a parclo 2. It will need some research to find out when it was upgraded to its current shape.

Even if the topology of the junction is a cloverleaf, geometrically it is not a cloverleaf but a grade-separated intersection without crossing conflicts for motor verhicles. In practice, it is a junction between a road and a street, without proper acceleration and deceleration lanes, with sharp 90 degree turns, and at-level crossing of bicycles.





Similar (but usually only partly separated) junctions were built in 1960's and 1970's. In those days, the Finnish Road Admin followed a strict doctrine to forbid making decent ramps to other roads than motorways. There still are fruits from this thinking to enjoy, like this juction of Helsinki Ring 3 and the road 120 (ex-2). The ramps have been somewhat improved, and the fifth ramp (S to E) was built later:

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Old April 2nd, 2013, 11:58 AM   #14
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In a lot of these cases the road authorities are shooting themselves in the foot by downgrading former motorways or dual carriageways. Even if it is barely used any more, to have a high capacity road as an alternative in case its replacement is closed is useful. It is also ready for further infrastructure expansion. All you need to do is lower the speed limit.

It is also sad to see some former A-roads in the UK lose traffic when bypasses are built. An example is the A30 in Cornwall which was over time entirely replaced by a Dual Carriageway. The cafes, petrol stations and shops along the former alignment all closed and the villages lost a lot of business, along with through traffic.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 04:55 PM   #15
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I can find an example near home, and also and example of the opposite way, a series of local and regional roads becoming an important motorway in Spain.



First is the Puerto Lápice-Daimiel-Ciudad Real road, that was constructed as a main road between XIX-XX centuries, named "Madrid-Ciudad Real", in 1st category of roads.

With Franco, a new classification of roads (colloquially Plan Peña) came into existence. This road kept its 1st category status (from then, carretera Nacional), and was integrated in N-420 from Córdoba to Tarragona. In those years they also built Daimiel-Manzanares road (N-430 Badajoz-Almansa-Valencia), continuing to Ciudad Real with N-420.

In late 1980's, lots of roads were given to new regional goverments, but these roads were kept in national network. The only change here was the creation on N-310, which also shared track with this road.

Since 2002/04, they have been constructing A-43 motorway (the first part built was the one parallelling the said road), that has taken traffic out of N-310/420/430, so this part is now with little traffic, most of it local.

In 2007, the part of N-420 in central La Mancha was given to CLM Regional goverment, renaming it as CM-420, which includes the non-duplicated part of this former trunk road

So this former route is now divided between a locally used (triple-)national road and a medium used regional road. If you want to search in Google Maps, it appears as N-420.



The other one I want to write about is N-310, which has been already introduced. It shares track with Ciudad Real-Daimiel N-420 and Ciudad Real-Daimiel-Manzanares N-430. Signalling starts in Manzanares.

The history of this highway started in the 80's, with the above mentioned road-giving. Government soon though about a new corridor between Extremadura and Andalucía to Valencia, so they recovered some of the local and regional roads (between Manzanares and Villanueva de la Jara) they had given and converted them to N-310. In mid-90's some parts were Vía Rápida (single carriageway expressway).

With time, now all of the original N-310 has been converted to motorway A-43 (Ciudad Real-Atalaya del Cañavate), so this is the story of some local roads which were converted to a west-east main motorway in Spain. I already expanded this information in Spanish Wikipedia, and I'll share the picture here.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-310
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Old April 4th, 2013, 08:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Unfortunately, this is not 100% correct.
Ok. Thanks for correction.

Whatever the name for the junction type could be, I still find four two-way ramps in this place kind of exaggerating.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 12:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I present the Netherlands:

I love how some of the users blame the EU for downgrading the roads. Idiots.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 08:44 AM   #18
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Not sure if this counts but there is a part of former State Highway 60 which ran through the village of Mapua west of Nelson which was bypassed a couple of years ago. The stretch through the town is hardly used anymore aside from those that live along it.

There are also some former state highways which have since had their classification revoked.
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Old April 5th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
I love how some of the users blame the EU for downgrading the roads. Idiots.
I really like the way Dutch prevent drivers from overtaking on single carriageways. Much of such infrastructure should be implemented in some Eastern Europeans countries.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=piotr71;101753977]This thread is dedicated to all these roads, which do not meet their initial purpose anymore. Routes, which some time in the past, worked as trunk roads carrying huge number of vehicles every day and now, in many cases are not even important in regional terms. Do you know such road in your or neighbouring country? If so, do not hesitate to tell us its history or even post its picture.

One of the best example would be French N1. That road, until construction of nearby motorway A16, worked as main corridor connecting Northern France with Paris, as well as in some parts connecting United Kingdom through Calais with Benelux and Germany. Some time go I had captured some pics of the latter also its Belgian sister N39. By the way, French bit is not numbered N1 anymore, its D601 now.

Sometimes, it is about daily and businesslike troubles - after the degradation of the road. One example from Poland - near the border with CZ. The new S1 (E75/dual carriageway) was built up between Cieszyn and Skoczow. The old road No.1 ("droga krajowa") was not declassed and signed as No.91 (the normal parallel road) however it is further only local road. The issue was who should look after the road. Who should bear the maintanance and repair costs.....

Unfortunatelly articles are available only in Polish:

http://cieszyn.naszemiasto.pl/artyku...gi-z,id,t.html
http://gazetacodzienna.pl/article/wy...-stara-jedynke

The municipalities along the road did not want to pay for that. At least that the road needed the reconstruction. At the end the county/district overtook the road....
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