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Old April 7th, 2013, 02:22 AM   #21
piotr71
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Nice one I know this road very well and drove there many times until it was declassified. And, as far as I can remember, It was always really busy, even in the communist times when it was part of the European corridor E7.

By the way, there is no obligation for retaining older national roads, parallel to new expressways, within national numbering system similar to the one for motorways' alternative roads.
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Old April 7th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #22
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Another example from CZ/A-border in Mikulov. In 90s the new border crossing and partial by-pass road was built and the old road and border crossing last their importance....

http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo...let_snimek.jpg

The old boarder crossing serves as the smaller logistic center. The section behind the former boarder crossing is side cut (and without any traffic). The municipality Mikulov looks after the old No.52 road. Nowadays it is also part of one local cycle route.

Firmer custom house built before the WW2.
http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo...let_snimek.jpg

More pictures:
http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo...echod_z_cr.jpg
http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo...z_rakouska.jpg
http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo..._prechod_1.jpg
http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo...hod_cedule.jpg
http://zeleznaopona.com/druhyusek/fo...od_hranice.jpg

Anyway, recently one interesting book about the history of the road connection between Vienna and Brno has been issued -
"Die Brünner Straße Eine Zeitreise von Wien nach Brünn in Bildern" - showing various pictures and stories of previous 100 years.....The road was repaired and up-graded many times.....

Leaflets with pictures from various sections (text only in German and Czech language):

http://www.edition-wh.at/bruennerstr...ung_bilder.php
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Old April 8th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #23
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So here there are shown changes in Spanish trunk roads as I explained for a previous post here for two particular roads.

This is the 1860 map, with 1st class roads in red. For example, you can see as former trunk roads the road to Oporto (Porto in Portuguese), the one to San Vicente de la Barquera or a branch of the mediterranean road in Castellón to a point between Morella and Vinaroz.


Then comes the 'Plan Peńa' map (1940), with main trunk roads in red and the rest of main roads in blue. Some former main roads seen here are the Jerez-Antequera one, the north-east access to Málaga or Cáceres-Badajoz road.


And this one is from 2003. All in this map were trunk roads, but some have been 'regionalized' since then, as N-420 between Daimiel and Mota del Cuervo (as I posted before) or N-320 between Albacete and Cuenca. There have also been 'nationalized' roads, like CV-40 completing the central Valencia-Alicante corridor.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog View Post
Annoying how they downgrade roads even though there is no point, from the drivers perspective, even if it's not a main road 2x2 is nicer to drive on than a crappy 2x1 road!
And significantly less safe to walk or bike across. And presenting greater risk of merging conflicts...

If a trunk road returns to a street function in a city, it needs to fulfill street functions first.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 07:35 PM   #25
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Maybe in a city, but in the countryside it usually doesn't make much sense, at least I don't see it in the particular Dutch example.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #26
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Breda is a city. That's the point.

I agree about the countryside, though. There isn't any real reason not to implement forgiving design there, insomuch as is locally financially viable.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 07:51 PM   #27
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Sorry, I thought we were talking about Chris's example.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 02:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
And significantly less safe to walk or bike across. And presenting greater risk of merging conflicts...

If a trunk road returns to a street function in a city, it needs to fulfill street functions first.
That road in Breda, cyclists and other slow traffic are not allowed on it, it has no conflicting ''slow'' traffic over a long stretch, it has overpasses crossing it. There was no reason to make it 2x1 except to annoy drivers to take another route. This is not the correct way of action, imo you build the new road which is superior to the old one in terms of travel time and such, and leave the old road as it is, to keep a decent alternative. It has roads running on both sides of it for slow traffic.

And Chris's example is plain insanity.

Last edited by snowdog; April 12th, 2013 at 02:52 AM.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 02:48 AM   #29
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Borovsk Highway, XV century - 1940s

Dark red - former highway
Blue - current highway

(explore it here http://goo.gl/maps/Bx1z5)

A part of the highway are transformed into a motorway:
http://goo.gl/maps/m6Rvw

Some parts became city streets...
http://goo.gl/maps/LfzUh
http://goo.gl/maps/jToKm

...or simply destroyed
http://goo.gl/maps/EP80F
http://goo.gl/maps/l0qGM
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Last edited by dars-dm; April 27th, 2013 at 10:37 PM.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #30
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The E4 former trunk roads with year of replacement of the motorway.
The unmarked section was a trunk road which was rebuilt to motorway (I guess)
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Old April 27th, 2013, 03:03 PM   #31
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Since this is on-topic with the forum, I move this off the roadside rest area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Why? In Slovenia (like in most of Europe except Scandinavia), motorways and normal roads have different classifications (Ax and Gx in the case of Slovenia). So, they could keep A5 and G1-3 at the same time, like our A4\SS14 or A23\SS13.
In other cases it's different. When new parts of expressways open along the Jonian coast (Taranto-Reggio Calabria), they are classificated as SS106 and the old road get downgraded. When the Livorno - Grosseto expressway opened, it got the SS1 number and the former 1+1 SS1 was downgraded with different numbers. When the current SS1 expressway will be upgraded into the new A12 motorway there are chances that the old road will return SS1 again.
In Spain when a motorway opens the old road keeps its former number: N-240 between Sietamo and Lleida is still N-240 even if it has been replaced by A-22. But before all motorways were renumbered, if a motorway wasn't given an A number then it took the number of the parallel road. For example, when the motorway between Zaragoza and Huesca was completed it was numbered N-330 and the old road became N-330a. When all motorways were given A designations, the motorway was numbered A-23 and the old road reverted to N-330. But we've did it to the extreme that when the long awaited new road between Fiscal and Sabinanigo opened the old road wasn't renumbered and now we have two roads numbered N-260!
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Old April 27th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #32
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Sometimes it happens here too that we have two roads with the same number (but I think only, if they join each other). For example, this road is G2-106, but this short road is G2-106 as well.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #33
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here is a former trunk from Slovenija near Razdrto

image hosted on flickr

<Digimax 370 / Kenox D370> by hofburgh4, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

<Digimax 370 / Kenox D370> by hofburgh4, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

<Digimax 370 / Kenox D370> by hofburgh4, on Flickr
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:41 PM   #34
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Seems to be a current trunk road.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #35
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not really, since 2010 it's a former one, the photos are old.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
not really, since 2010 it's a former one, the photos are old.
Is the last section of H4 that opened, right?
BTW, before the H4 was completed most of the traffic went via Fernetti.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #37
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Old road no. 1 between Cieszyn - Bielsko-Biała. The new expressway S1 (E75/E462) you can see on the right side of the picture



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Skocz%...C4%85skie&z=15
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Old April 28th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Is the last section of H4 that opened, right?
BTW, before the H4 was completed most of the traffic went via Fernetti.
Not traffic for Nova Gorica or Gorizia.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #39
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[QUOTE=Luki_SL;102738096]Old road no. 1 between Cieszyn - Bielsko-Biała. The new expressway S1 (E75/E462) you can see on the right side of the picture

Well, it was (with the exception of the delayed Skoczów-bypass) the last missing section of S1-road between Cieszyn and Bielsko. It concerns the section between the west-end of Bielsko-bypass (Jasienica) and the east-end of Skoczów-bypass (Pogórze).

There are three of my snapshots of the old No.1 from 2006, just before the S1-opening....

https://picasaweb.google.com/1065082...eat=directlink
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Old April 29th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #40
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The section of the old A4-motorway in Germany in Eisenach.

More pictures issued in spring 2008 at (former) Ramsberg service area:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1065082...nachAlteA42008

Nowadays the older motorway looks different.....
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