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Old January 20th, 2015, 11:12 PM   #161
Moravian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
No, it just eliminated this curve.
That was valuable improvement. The road No.447, former 10.yu, was very busy road and Trojane pass is quite hilly section. If I remember well, in summer 2001 was the junction Vransko (with toll gate in open system, with next gate in Tepanje) the provisional end of the motorway. No doubts the the route via Trojane pass is very old and important road connection for almost past 2000 years.
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Old January 20th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #162
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It's still the main toll-free alternative. The motorway isn't as short as this road because it had to avoid Kranj and Medvode (and it serves the Ljubljana airport). Anyway, when you reach Ljubljana, you might be surprised at pine trees on the left.
Thanks. At that time it was easy to avoid the onyou one toll gate and discover Slovenija better way. There was A2 motorway between the Karavanky tunnel and the junction Bled. Between Bled or Lesce and the junction Ljubelj it was mostly only national road, and the motorway was under construction between Ljubelj road and the bypass of Kranj. If you league A2 at the juction KJ-zahod, you had to pass the downtown, or you had to leave the A2 at KJ-vzhod at the latest if you want to avoid the toll. No trouble if you come from Avstrija from Jezersko pass. However if you come from Ljubelj pass or even Jesenice, it is not easy to follow the old road. But I have no experience from this after A2 is completed and the vigneta introduced.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 12:08 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moravian View Post
That was valuable improvement. The road No.447, former 10.yu, was very busy road and Trojane pass is quite hilly section. If I remember well, in summer 2001 was the junction Vransko (with toll gate in open system, with next gate in Tepanje) the provisional end of the motorway. No doubts the the route via Trojane pass is very old and important road connection for almost past 2000 years.
Yes, a Roman road passed over Trojane (Atrans) as well.

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Thanks. At that time it was easy to avoid the onyou one toll gate and discover Slovenija better way. There was A2 motorway between the Karavanky tunnel and the junction Bled. Between Bled or Lesce and the junction Ljubelj it was mostly only national road, and the motorway was under construction between Ljubelj road and the bypass of Kranj. If you league A2 at the juction KJ-zahod, you had to pass the downtown, or you had to leave the A2 at KJ-vzhod at the latest if you want to avoid the toll. No trouble if you come from Avstrija from Jezersko pass. However if you come from Ljubelj pass or even Jesenice, it is not easy to follow the old road. But I have no experience from this after A2 is completed and the vigneta introduced.
This was toll-free as well. I usually avoided the Torovo toll station when I went to the airport.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 12:34 AM   #164
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Yes, a Roman road passed over Trojane (Atrans) as well.

This was toll-free as well. I usually avoided the Torovo toll station when I went to the airport.
Thanks for your suggestion!

Yes, I heard about that Romans history at Trojane. Unfortunatelly no time to have a break here (restavracija na Trojanah).

http://www.dediscina.si/en/heritage/...ogical-site/86
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Old January 21st, 2015, 02:07 AM   #165
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Btw, there're actually two passes 1 km away from each other. The first one is Trojane (561 m) and the second one is Učak, which is actually somewhat higher (609 m).

http://goo.gl/maps/9lVuf
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Last edited by Verso; January 21st, 2015 at 03:16 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 03:39 AM   #166
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http://goo.gl/maps/w0FG4

Old road Ljubljana-Novo mesto-Zagreb (until 1958) and today the main toll-free road.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 03:59 AM   #167
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Old road Ljubljana-Novo mesto-Zagreb (until 1958):

http://goo.gl/maps/wvvdK
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Old January 21st, 2015, 10:47 AM   #168
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Was the Ljubljana - Zagreb motorway built already in 1958? I though it was built more recently, probably after independence of Slovenia and Croatia.
It's because I've a folding road map of Yugoslavia from around 1970-1980. I don't have it here to look, but I remember there were hardly any motorway. Of course that map is useless now, but I keep it just for the sake of it, together with maps of Spain and Poland from the same period, also almost motorways-free. But the best is a 1935 map of Italian East Africa, that was almost thrown in the trash by a colleague of my father.
And also a map of Austria from 1990 that shows also part of northern Italy, with A28 dashed and written "open in 1992". It opened in 2010.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old January 21st, 2015, 02:52 PM   #169
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Was the Ljubljana - Zagreb motorway built already in 1958? I though it was built more recently, probably after independence of Slovenia and Croatia.
That was just a 2-lane expressway (but everyone called it a motorway in the beginning). The first stretch of a real motorway between Ljubljana and Zagreb was opened in 1989 here. The section to Ljubljana was opened in 1992. Then nothing new opened until 2000 because A1 (then A10) became more important after independence and war in Croatia. I think the Croatian part was widened in 2000 as well. The last section in Slovenia was opened in 2010.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 04:55 PM   #170
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Quote:
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That was just a 2-lane expressway (but everyone called it a motorway in the beginning)
.That was part of a "Autoput bratstva i jedinstva" . And autoput=motorway on english.Maybe that's way they called it motorway.[/QUOTE]
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Old January 21st, 2015, 05:31 PM   #171
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They called it a motorway, because it was pretty good for those times.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 07:03 PM   #172
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That's what i was saying.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 07:20 PM   #173
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This was the main road between Ljubljana and Venice until 1972:

http://goo.gl/maps/u97Yp
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Old January 21st, 2015, 08:12 PM   #174
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The old road Bela Palanka-Niš in Serbia. It was the main road towards Pirot and Bulgaria up to 1968 (Sićevo Gorge road completion).
https://goo.gl/maps/wuMae
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Old January 21st, 2015, 09:36 PM   #175
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Old road N o .2 in Greece.Before construction of A2 this was the main road.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 08:23 PM   #176
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One of the former main roads leading to Marseille from the West, former RN113, now downgraded to D113:



There's a suicide lane and a four-lane mountain pass along the way -and many, many other 1960s road features. That road is like a time machine . The duplication of N568 in the early 1970s diverted most traffic to the southern route to Marseille, and the opening of A7 (1970) and A54 (1990s) created a thick motorway network that rendered this road useless for long-distance traffic. Part of it still has heavy commuter traffic, as tolls on A7 are expensive, and its southernmost section acts like a distributor of the motorway.
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Old January 27th, 2015, 04:20 PM   #177
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[QUOTE=verreme;120963606]One of the former main roads leading to Marseille from the West, former RN113, now downgraded to D113:

Thank you! Interesting. Lancon in Provence could be noted not as only one big toll gate and rest station on A7. With opportunity to enjoy the view of the lake Etang de Berre. The new A54-bypass in Arles will be new update on RN113 route. But the view of Ares downtown from the current bridge is quite nice.
What is also remarkable? Two different worlds. The urban and industrial area round Marseille*vs. Provence countryside with the Plaine de la Crau. It concerns N568 too.
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Old January 27th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #178
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N568 is one of my favourite roads in France
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Old January 27th, 2015, 08:09 PM   #179
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I drove N568 in September. It has an American feel, with the wide median, uncontrolled access and plains.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 12:49 AM   #180
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Italy - SS13 road - Udine - Coccau (Austrian border) - external link (this very impressing former trunk road has been already mentioned):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3suDi6Uxm0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FCFNEJWmFM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHeuJFPhPk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raMwQo69jVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSKEo6PQw_w
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