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Old April 24th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #21
bilby
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Supertalls in Melbourne

Bronteboy, your "... counterpoint to the 'loss of amenity and character' argument" is not really relevant to this building. 108 is a residential building, but this one is an office tower, so it won't do anything for urban sprawl. Besides which, it's well understood that high rise towers aren't the only way to achieve density. Take Vienna as an example - it's super dense, but is mostly around 6 storeys.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opin...-1225897744461
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilby View Post
Bronteboy, your "... counterpoint to the 'loss of amenity and character' argument" is not really relevant to this building. 108 is a residential building, but this one is an office tower, so it won't do anything for urban sprawl. Besides which, it's well understood that high rise towers aren't the only way to achieve density. Take Vienna as an example - it's super dense, but is mostly around 6 storeys.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opin...-1225897744461
Yes, thanks, point taken about this being an office tower but I was speaking more generally about the media debate taking place here led by the city's main newspaper, which is overwhelmingly about residential skyscrapers [since there have been few office towers built in Melbourne for some years although several big ones, including this one, are now proposed].

I don't quite take your comparison with Venice, as its metro population is [according to Wiki] 1.6 m, while Melbourne's is 4.3m. Paris, also overwhelmingly a 6-storey city, might be a more valid comparison, but
the reality is that the context - historically, culturally and socially - between Melbourne and these time honoured European cities is very different. Melbourne is still a young city [est. 1835], and apartment living has only been more broadly accepted over the past 20 years.


When seeking consolidation or density there is very little room to move here between the commercial arteries and transport hubs before you meet the fiercely-guarded suburban ideal of every family's right to a single home and garden on a quarter acre block. As I said, there is almost 1000 sq kms of them.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 02:17 PM   #23
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So the tower looks nice enough, but let one off the hook for overshadowing river and southbank and then 10 more will follow.

It's one of the few 'mandatory' controls left in the CBD, designed to ensure that the soutbank promenade and river itself remains pleasant even in winter when the sun is shining - and it does sometimes ! Sunshine in the winter months is an essential part of ensuring Melbourne's public places remain 'livable'. Lok at the slopy roofd thing on Flinders Street in front of it in the image, and you can see the line created by the rule. Not that it should be seen as responsible for the not so great design of that particular development.

I predict if this goes through, then in 10 years time, there will be a dozen tall buildings lining up along Flinders Street (where they cant be built out) making it, and the river, and Southbank, not pleasant in the colder months, just when sunshine is most needed.

Plenty of room for new office buildings in the CBD, but just not to tall, or so close to the river - and then there's mention Docklands, Southbank and the new Fisherman's Bend precinct, which dont have these controls.
Looks like we better build over all our laneways...cold, dark, sunless, dastardly evil sewers and depravity of the ill at ease ( Have I gone too far ? )
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #24
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So the tower looks nice enough, but let one off the hook for overshadowing river and southbank and then 10 more will follow.

It's one of the few 'mandatory' controls left in the CBD, designed to ensure that the soutbank promenade and river itself remains pleasant even in winter when the sun is shining - and it does sometimes ! Sunshine in the winter months is an essential part of ensuring Melbourne's public places remain 'livable'. Lok at the slopy roofd thing on Flinders Street in front of it in the image, and you can see the line created by the rule. Not that it should be seen as responsible for the not so great design of that particular development.

I predict if this goes through, then in 10 years time, there will be a dozen tall buildings lining up along Flinders Street (where they cant be built out) making it, and the river, and Southbank, not pleasant in the colder months, just when sunshine is most needed.

Plenty of room for new office buildings in the CBD, but just not to tall, or so close to the river - and then there's mention Docklands, Southbank and the new Fisherman's Bend precinct, which dont have these controls.
Why are you Aussies so scared of losing sunshine? Has there been an apocalypse like "I am legend" there to keep the zombies out? You get plenty of sunshine all year round, it's time to get real and build some kick ass cities and stop being pansies.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #25
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I don't quite take your comparison with Venice,
Probably because he said "Vienna."
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Old April 25th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #26
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i don't think it will be one of the world tallest when finished, it reminds me of 1WTC but a bit different.
Obviously it won't be near a worlds tallest, it's just scare mongering by the newspapers.

If this even has a chance of going up, it's probably as a shorter tower, propose it tall and as a 'safe compromise' chop 80m off of it and make opponents seem like they won a little battle.

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Why are you Aussies so scared of losing sunshine? Has there been an apocalypse like "I am legend" there to keep the zombies out? You get plenty of sunshine all year round, it's time to get real and build some kick ass cities and stop being pansies.
Melbourne can still get quite chilly in winter, sure no snow, but we do have quite a number of overcast days during the winter times. Sunshine, especially on Southbank because it is exposed, is a great thing. Southbank is a pretty busy pedestrian promenade running the length of the city along the river. If it's an overcast day it's nice to walk south across the river to eat lunch instead of being in the existing shadows on the north side, just to catch some warmth.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #27
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Wow, Melbourne is booming...I'm waiting for a bigger rendering but this tower seems very promising.
Even the small render looks pretty cool already. I would like to see some details as well.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 06:58 AM   #28
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hopeful also that this goes ahead. Good god Melbourne is out of control!
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Old April 26th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by redbaron_012 View Post
Looks like we better build over all our laneways...cold, dark, sunless, dastardly evil sewers and depravity of the ill at ease ( Have I gone too far ? )
yes ! dens of depravity, destroy them now !
oh, actually, thats why we like them.
but we can have sunlight for the coffe drinking families, and darkness for the bar crawlers - Melbourne has it all !
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Old April 26th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #30
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We need more info on this proposal before we get too emotional..
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Old April 27th, 2013, 02:45 AM   #31
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Melbourne can still get quite chilly in winter, sure no snow, but we do have quite a number of overcast days during the winter times.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... no it doesn't.

I come from Winnipeg and now live in Changchun. Melbourne's coldest recorded temperature is positively tropical by comparison.

That said , I really hope that this goes through. Melbourne is beginning to take over from Sydney as Australia's premier city in the minds of many people.
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Old April 27th, 2013, 04:47 AM   #32
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^Don't say that out aloud lol
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Old April 27th, 2013, 10:28 PM   #33
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i like this tower alot more than the fugly australia 108 tower.

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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... no it doesn't.

I come from Winnipeg and now live in Changchun. Melbourne's coldest recorded temperature is positively tropical by comparison.

That said , I really hope that this goes through. Melbourne is beginning to take over from Sydney as Australia's premier city in the minds of many people.
arent most of australia's inhabited areas situated in the temperate maritime regions, while the rest in the mediterranean regions? sure it wouldnt get "siberia cold" in melbourne/sydney/canberra but its not tropical at all. its the same kind of cold you can get in england, which isnt as cold as other places on earth but still cold enough to make you put on winter clothes.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 01:01 PM   #34
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i like this tower alot more than the fugly australia 108 tower.


arent most of australia's inhabited areas situated in the temperate maritime regions, while the rest in the mediterranean regions? sure it wouldnt get "siberia cold" in melbourne/sydney/canberra but its not tropical at all. its the same kind of cold you can get in england, which isnt as cold as other places on earth but still cold enough to make you put on winter clothes.
You don't know much about geography. A third of Australia is tropical and we have areas that are on par with where you are. It's a continent so it's huge. The closest we have to an English climate would be Tasmania and even that's very mild when a direct comparison is done.
image hosted on flickr


This is how hot it can get in summer. Not exactly Britain.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #35
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I know this is a bit OT but that warm climate is one reason why I'm considering moving to Australia if my plan to move into the US would fail. But I'm interested in north Australia, because that are the places with truly tropical climate. I've been thinking about Townsville or Darwin
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Old April 28th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #36
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I know this is a bit OT but that warm climate is one reason why I'm considering moving to Australia if my plan to move into the US would fail. But I'm interested in north Australia, because that are the places with truly tropical climate. I've been thinking about Townsville or Darwin
Have fun with that hahah, you can't swim in the sea in Darwin because of the Crocodiles, Jellyfish and numerous venomous fish. Anyway back to the point I really hope this one goes up! It's really put Adelaide in its place
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Old April 28th, 2013, 10:18 PM   #37
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You don't know much about geography. A third of Australia is tropical and we have areas that are on par with where you are. It's a continent so it's huge. The closest we have to an English climate would be Tasmania and even that's very mild when a direct comparison is done.
image hosted on flickr


This is how hot it can get in summer. Not exactly Britain.
Melbourneguy, if you want to insult someobody's knowledge of geography, you might aswell make sure you read his comment properly before embarrassing yourself. Ill stop speaking in 3rd person now

Did i say that most of Australia wasnt tropical or desert? No thats not what i said, please read again and this time carefully. I ASKED if most of australia's INHABITED areas were located within the temperate maritime and mediterranean regions.

everyone knows that a huge desert covers almost 70% of australia's geography. the other 30% of non-desert areas are in the extremities of the country (coastal regions). and i also know that northern australia is tropical.

but most of human life is found in southern australia, near the coast. melbourne, sydney, canberra and adelaide are all located in one quadrant of the country. 3 of these cities have a temperate maritime / oceanic climate: melbourne, canberra and syndey. for adelaide, the climate is meditteranean. perth is the only major city in southwest australia and its got mediterranean climate. hobart is temperate, like melbourne, canberra and sydney.

thus all of these cities are either located in temperate/oceanic regions or mediterranean regions. the only major city that is not oceanic or mediterranean is brisbane, which is located in a subtropical region.

so where is my wrongness here?

and for your chart, its misleading. you are showing us the hottest time in melbourne and only a few days are above 40 degrees celsius , which im sure is only at noon time ,because if you look at the low temp for that day, it goes all the way down to 18 degrees rofl. the rest of the days have temperatures that are no different than london's midsummer temperatures. you call that a summer? this is spring around here

so wheres your point? all i said was it gets cold in melbourne but obviously not siberia cold. for most of the worlds population, your city is not a destination for drinking lemonade and going to the beach. most of australia's inhabited areas have european-like weather, which is why they were settled. hardly anyone lives in the desert and northern regions.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 01:40 AM   #38
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Temperate is also divided into sub groups. Therefore Australia has a 'Warm Temperate' climate while the UK has a Cold Temperate climate. There is a big difference. To compare the UK's climate with Australia is ludicrous.
The fact that Melbourne even reaches the 40's should indicate that it's nothing like London's climate where 23c is regarded as a hot day.
Come to think of it, there are hotter places in Australia than even Kuwait City.
Have a look at the Annual Mean Temperatures. Kuwait City has 34.34c while there are quite a few places in Australia that are hotter.
Mind you, hot means that nothing grows and you're welcome to your climate.


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Old April 29th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Khaleejian View Post
i like this tower alot more than the fugly australia 108 tower.


arent most of australia's inhabited areas situated in the temperate maritime regions, while the rest in the mediterranean regions? sure it wouldnt get "siberia cold" in melbourne/sydney/canberra but its not tropical at all. its the same kind of cold you can get in england, which isnt as cold as other places on earth but still cold enough to make you put on winter clothes.
Quite accurate and wise Khaleejian,

Melbourneguy, have you ever heard the saying lies, damn lies and statistics..using the 2009 black saturday heatwave,- a freak occurrence that last occurred in 1939 -to prove your point is a bit rich.

Anyway whats the argument, it gets hot in Melbourne in the summer , from the hot north winds( can have quite cool days too, when the winds from the south) and it can get quite cold and windy in the winter, not cold enough to snow, but cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey

If there's a financial case for it, build the tower. The overshadowing argument sounds naff, Melbourne's a forest of skyscrappers already, the tower's not going up in Camberwell for christ's sake
The tower looks pretty good, would like to see some more renders of it to form a better opinion.
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Old April 29th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #40
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i think this will be a beautiful addition to the city
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