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Old July 22nd, 2013, 09:06 PM   #21
Kanto
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Yup, that is what I call the Pluto phenomenon. Pluto was a planet for decades before being dethroned. I'm not an expert on astronomy and planetary characteristics, but I always admired the courage of the astronomers who did this change despite causing all old books to be essentially obsolete. Changing the rules of height measurement of skyscrapers would be a similar move in its effect on history as we know it, but in my opinion it would be worth it in the end. It would be difficult, but that usually is the price for progress

As to the differentiation what structure is a building and what isn't, I completely agree that guyed masts, chimneys and other unoccupiable structures aren't buildings, but I have mixed opinions about observation towers. On one hand they don't meet the 50% rule, but on the other hand, for example the Sky Tree has 32 floors, which approximately coresponds to a highrise. So the Sky Tree could be described as a highrise on a supertall pedestal. However, why should a highrise sitting on the ground be a building but a highrise on a supertall pedestal not?

Btw, no problem, I'll change my sig
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Old September 29th, 2013, 10:57 PM   #22
KillerZavatar
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pluto being dethroned was a matter of scientific research. a new system of measurement is just another personal opinion on an already complicated problem. try to explain a friend, who is not a nerd like us, that this building is taller than that building, because the spire counts, but that antenna doesn't. he will look confused. now imagine your system and tell them this building is so and so tall up to that count, the rest above doesn't count, because right at that setback you see there there its width becomes to thin to be recognized by Kanto standards. you see where i am going here, your system is really great for comparison, statistics and other sort of things we play with, but for a worldwide acceptance it is far too complicated. that said i would love to see according to your standards a ranking of the average height (or accumilated height for that matter) of the 10 tallest buildings of the major skyscraper cities in the world. it would be quite a good representation of the tallest non-cheaty skyline of the world
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #23
MattTheTubaGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
pluto being dethroned was a matter of scientific research.
It isn't quite that simple. At the moment, it is clear that Pluto is a dwarf planet while Mercury is a terrestrial planet, however, with more and more planets being discovered outside our solar system, it is only a matter of time (probably several decades actually, small planets are really hard to detect!) before some planets in between Pluto and Mercury are discovered that will make a more refined definition necessary.
The official definition is basically this: It orbits the sun, It is large enough to be round due to its own gravity, and it has 'cleared its neighbourhood'.
The first one technically excludes anything outside of our solar system from being planets, and the last one is fairly arbitrary, kind of like the distinction between a spire and an antenna.
Personally, I would just count anything round as planets, and add extra labels depending on what they are made of, and what they are orbiting (our moon would be a 'rocky moon planet')

For the height of skyscrapers, the only well defined height is the height to tip. anything else would be open to discussion.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #24
Kanto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
pluto being dethroned was a matter of scientific research. a new system of measurement is just another personal opinion on an already complicated problem. try to explain a friend, who is not a nerd like us, that this building is taller than that building, because the spire counts, but that antenna doesn't. he will look confused. now imagine your system and tell them this building is so and so tall up to that count, the rest above doesn't count, because right at that setback you see there there its width becomes to thin to be recognized by Kanto standards. you see where i am going here, your system is really great for comparison, statistics and other sort of things we play with, but for a worldwide acceptance it is far too complicated. that said i would love to see according to your standards a ranking of the average height (or accumilated height for that matter) of the 10 tallest buildings of the major skyscraper cities in the world. it would be quite a good representation of the tallest non-cheaty skyline of the world
I agree that my roof height measurement system is kinda complicated but I think that its fairness outweighs its complexity. In my opinion a measurement system that is both simple and fair doesn't exist. Pinnacle height is the only simple measurement method that exists and while being more fair than official height, it is still by far not as fair as roof height. I think in this matter we must choose between the simple unfair and the complicated fair and in my opinion fairness is more important than simplicity

I plan on going to a uni studying structural engineering next school year and once I become an engineer (at least I hope I do ) I plan on becoming a member of the CTBUH. Then I will officialy propose my roof height measurement method. I don't know if I'll succeed or not, but I will at least do everything I can to change the world of height measurement to a more fair form. If my roof height measurement method would one day make it into the CTBUH I would gladly dig through archives to get exact figures of it for all the buildings. It is too much work for one person of course, but I would volunteer since I'm very passionate about height measurement

Btw for fun, I once had a dream that I was on a trip to Nanjing and I visited the nanjing Greenland Tower. Right before its entrance I started lecturing to random people arround me about roof height. I told them that the building is shorter than the Willis Tower and shorter than Kingkey and that the official height is unfair and that roof height is the answer and so on. Was a very funny dream indeed
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