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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:25 PM   #21
Funkyskunk2
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This would be the greatest development ever, but I'm guessing it's a snowball's chance in hell of ever happening.

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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:28 PM   #22
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Look at the density of it. It looks like a 30 million sq ft+ development.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winoc View Post

I'm guessing MSG will be gone in less than 15 years and that we will witness a project on this scale being officially proposed in 5 years.
The complete renovation of MSG was finished just this year. There are blocks and blocks of relatively dinky buildings on each side of Penn Station. If they are going to build something like this in this area, they should leave MSG alone. It is one of the best arenas in the country.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:39 PM   #24
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Old May 31st, 2013, 06:41 PM   #25
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MSG is a dilapidated and poorly designed relic of the middle of the 19th century. It is in its 4th reincarnation, and theres no reason why it cant move to another part of the city again. Penn Station needs a groundbreaking redevelopment like this. In its current state its a sad series of old, dirty tunnels. Its the premier rail station of the US, and it should appear so.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:12 PM   #26
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That project is stunning and all, but I rather like to see the WTC area finnished first.
I wonder, is Mid town so much more attractive to office tenants than down town? There are dozens of office towers proposed or at least visioned for mid town but at the other end at WTC they struggling for years to find tenants (I know that the crisis has something to do with it). Is a major economy boost to be expected in the next years, so there is hope for the remaining wtc projects too?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:16 PM   #27
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Midtown is more attractive for multiple reasons. Better transit, better retail, and better dining to name a few. It will largely lose the transit edge once the WTC Path station is finished, so maybe Downtown will become more attractive in the coming years.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:31 PM   #28
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Looks like Beijing or Shenzhen... and I love it!
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
[IMG]http://oi39.************/34spll1.jpg[/IMG]
Is that One Penn I see peeking through there?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:34 PM   #30
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Looks like it. Maybe the render was done before it was cancelled
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:36 PM   #31
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Small steps ... in the right direction. Even if those projects are just visions for now, it clearly shows that New York is not afraid any longer to build tall. I think they city has finally put the painful last decade behind.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:36 PM   #32
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Vornado is acting as if the tower is on indefinite hold, rather then cancelled outright, so we'll have to wait and see.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:46 PM   #33
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The SHoP proposal, called the "Gotham Gateway":













Quote:
For the design for the MAS Design Challenge to rethink Penn Station and its environs, SHoP imagines an expanded main hall of Penn Station as a bright, airy and easily navigable space that defines a center of a new destination district, Gotham Gateway. In addition to striking public architecture, the project proposes significant security and rail capacity improvements that address major needs at the existing station. The team proposes new development, as well as new parks and amenities, around the station to help defray the required public investment, including an extension of the High Line that connects the new station to a glorious and financeable new Madison Square Garden.
I like it quite a bit. The Station is open and airy, the area around open and friendly to the common person. But I feel it has two shortcomings: it's big enough to surpass the "human scale", but not monumental enough to be impressive. The exterior design seems to lack an amount of "oomph", an impressiveness. It's a bit bland, to be honest, a pared-down Lincoln center almost. I'm a bit hesitant about all the mega blocks. But on the whole, I like it.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:52 PM   #34
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Definitely the best of the visions. Do you guys really like that first one? Besides the main tower it's just randomly cut blocks like in some of the earliest wtc proposals. Grass on top is cheesy too.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:54 PM   #35
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The station proposed by SOM is amazing.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:57 PM   #36
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The H3 proposal:



"Moynihan education center"

















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In pursuit of making rail the “mode of choice”, H3 Hardy Collaboration Architecture asserts that four inextricably linked interventions must be made to improve the City’s essential systems and better express its culture: 1) Public Space, Entertainment, and the Environment; 2) Transportation; 3) Education; and 4) Economic Development. A relocation of Madison Square Garden to a 16-acre site on the west side waterfront provides an enhanced venue with a singular new identity and expanded tourist, hospitality, and entertainment opportunities. The New Penn Station, including an eight-track high-speed rail expansion to the south, accommodates increased capacity and integrates community and traveler amenities, including a new 3 acre public park, retail complex, and 2 acre roof garden. Redevelopment of the Farley Post Office creates a centrally located Center for Education. And, perhaps most importantly, 24 million square feet of private development around Penn Station and up Seventh Avenue serves as an economic engine for improvements and a revived world-class commercial district.
The station here seems a lot more monumental, which is good. I see One Penn here, and a tower next to it that is taller but looks like it fails FAR requirements. I mean, it's not bad, and the avoidance of megablocks seems good, but it looks like it needs some further thought in the way of composition (and render quality). What is the seaside stadium, also?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:12 PM   #37
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The SOM proposal:

























Quote:
SOM’s vision plan dramatically expands the transit capacity at Penn Station to create a capstone to every major piece of transportation infrastructure serving New York City. The plan calls for the expansion of Penn Station’s footprint by two additional blocks to accommodate high-speed rail lines for the Northeast Corridor, expanded commuter rail service for the entire tri-state area, and direct rail connections to JFK, LaGuardia and Newark Airports. This last connection would allow a passenger to go straight from the curb of 7th Avenue, through security at Penn Station, onto a train, and directly to the airport gate.

The plan for the station itself is open and intuitive. A central, transparent Ticketing Hall is placed at the center of the site, with dedicated vehicular drop-off and radial, pedestrian connections to the city surrounding it. Below, two concourses running north-south seamlessly enable passengers to move from ground level to below grade. Retail lines these circulation spaces, integrating the station into the surrounding streetscape. At the lowest levels are the expanded platforms, where visitors arriving from an overnight flight from Hong Kong rub elbows with a commuter on her way to Morristown. With all of these networks intersecting at Penn Station, its central hall would become the iconic gateway for nearly every visitor around the world.
I like the inclusion of direct links to the airports, but that's far out of their control. But my biggest problem is the size, which usually would be in its favour. I'm deeply torn. I mean, it's four city blocks! But, it's four city blocks! It's on that monumental scale I desire- 20 acres! (but still smaller than the magnificent Wuhan Railway Station, which is almost twice the size), but it takes up a great deal of land. The inclusion of a park reduces the worry considerably- but I'm concerned how easily one could get to it from the street. I comment on this one so much because it's the one that could end up the best, by miles, but it could also turn out very badly. But that design! It's one of the most futuristic things I've ever seen. Mid-century modern- mid 21st century, that is. Future generations will be surprised that it was built in the 2020s rather than the 2060s- just as I "feel" the Prairie Style seems to belong more in the 1950s than the turn of the century. I'd lament the lack of surrounding development, but looking at the sheer size I'd see why they aren't there. I'd say we ban companies from the suburbs, that'd generate demand...
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:18 PM   #38
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I see one of the proposals include a King Kong on top of the ESB
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:20 PM   #39
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The DSR Proposal:

























Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorry for the painful lack of caps...
one of the proposals submitted and discussed during the municipal art society of new york's open critique for the new penn station and madison square garden design is that of local practice diller scofidio + renfro, which focuses on the key element that dictates human space and activity all stations: time. departure and arrival times are the most important factors in the use of space and is solved through a complex layering of program that organizes it into zones based on the time they require. fast traffic is kept on the ground level where the tracks are located, while the remainder of the program above represent gradually slower circulation until reaching the green rooftop garden, a place of repose and relaxation with views of the city.breaking from strictly transport-related functions, 'penn station 3.0' will serve a new variety of visitors including 'commuters, office workers, fabricators, shoppers, foodies, culture seekers and urban explorers'. the structural logic follows the conceptual layering; with folding interwoven planes interrupted by voids and crevices, a new monumentality is created which allows the flow of air and light to all parts of the building and the visual connection between programmatic elements, no longer individualizing each zone but instead layering what could be considered individual fibers within an integrated shell. the end result is something like a city within the city. focused on improved transportation for the millions of daily visitors, the structure is intended to become a public building with activities to suit any interest. in this scheme, madison square garden is relocated to the west end of the farley building accessed from eighth avenue.
Lots of cool graphics, it's obvious DSR is placing its emphasis on the station experience. And it shows in the design. It's compact, porous, yet imposing. That maze of ramps boggles the mind. The interior is just a delight. This is very much a station I'd be happy to travel from. Wonder how good those roaming vendors would look in person though... this is probably my favorite proposal in terms of the station.

I'm mildly put out by the lack of a half-dozen supertalls, though.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:24 PM   #40
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So, to sum it up, DSR wins for station, SOM wins for monumentality, SHoP wins for master planning, and H3 wins for tallness. But, to me, the real winner is MMW:



All plans would be improved by substituting this for whatever station they've proposed. If we're going to not build skyscrapers on the site, we should return to what is tried and tested: classicism. I never thought it possible because of wasted air rights. But clearly that's not a concern. Rebuilding Penn Station seems to be less of an impossibility now.
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