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Old June 3rd, 2013, 05:25 PM   #121
Kanto
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Nope, it isn't that simple. Realism of a project is important as well and this is still far more realistic than the Azerbaijan Tower. But I agree that because of the absence of a developer on this one, it is not a fully fledged proposal. I would call both of the projects we're talking about (MS and AT) uncertain proposals. Something between a vision and a proposal. Something about which I'm strongly skeptical, but still something that deserves to be in this section
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:46 PM   #122
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It's not you to decide which proposal is realistic or not. Some people even few months ago called Kingdom Tower a pipe dream and now it's u/c. As long as it is technically feasible (and AT is - it's not like they are proposing a 10km tower) it has right to be in this section. But it has to be proposed by someone to be proposal - obviously

And something you apparently didn't get. Khazar Islands were mentioned to show you that the developer is able to pull of huge projects like 1km tower because maybe you don't realize that, but reclamation projects are insanely expensive. It's enough to say Palm Jumeirah costed over US$50billion in total to make.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:54 PM   #123
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This project is proposed by somebody as well, the only thing is, it is unrealistic to assume that the people proposing this could get the money to build it. Again I'm gonna say that I am skeptical of this proposal. I only think that it deserves to be in this section of the forum, nothing more

And yes, I know about reclamation projects, however unlike skyscrapers, you can always downsize reclaimed land if you run out of money, however capping off a skyscraper would mean that all the strong reinforcement for the additional height has been built for nothing. That's quite a loss. Take the Pentominium for example, or the Metlife North Building.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:56 PM   #124
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^The FAA has approved 700m skyscrapers before, in Chicago. I don't see why they wouldn't approve ones in Manhattan.
Oh really O.o, and what happened?
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 09:00 PM   #125
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Oh really O.o, and what happened?
i guess they're just gonna have to ax the River Visual Approach...

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Old June 3rd, 2013, 09:02 PM   #126
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Oh really O.o, and what happened?
They got cancelled. They were planned in the 80s-90s and were to be called the Chicago World Trade Center. One was 762 meters tall and the other one was 701 meters. here you can see them on SSP:

http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=59622854
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 09:12 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
This project is proposed by somebody as well, the only thing is, it is unrealistic to assume that the people proposing this could get the money to build it. Again I'm gonna say that I am skeptical of this proposal. I only think that it deserves to be in this section of the forum, nothing more
Again and again Kanto. Absolute minimum to call something a project is that it has to have a developer with intention to build it behind. It doesn't even have to have a design. If there is a developer saying that he will build 600m tower in ny it is a proposal. The design alone - isn't. I'm sure som and others have impressive concepts for most major us cities. Should we now start threads for those projects too? And I don't even have big problem with having this thread in this section. But lets be consequent. Either we allow all visions officially or none. It's irritating to see that somehow ny is treated based on different rules than all the rest of the world.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 09:24 PM   #128
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i guess they're just gonna have to ax the River Visual Approach...
at least we wouldn't have airplanes flying overhead Yankee Stadium at low altitude
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 10:54 PM   #129
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i guess they're just gonna have to ax the River Visual Approach...
I don't see that happen.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 10:59 PM   #130
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I don't see that happen.
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Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:32 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Again and again Kanto. Absolute minimum to call something a project is that it has to have a developer with intention to build it behind. It doesn't even have to have a design. If there is a developer saying that he will build 600m tower in ny it is a proposal. The design alone - isn't. I'm sure som and others have impressive concepts for most major us cities. Should we now start threads for those projects too? And I don't even have big problem with having this thread in this section. But lets be consequent. Either we allow all visions officially or none. It's irritating to see that somehow ny is treated based on different rules than all the rest of the world.
Everybody can be a developer and propose a building. It is actually getting the money to build it that is the trick, yet still buildings don't get into here only after all the money to build them was found. Look at the Pentominium, that dude didn't have the money to build that building yet it still got off the ground and has a solid spot in this section

And I completely disagree that NYC buildings are treated like something more. In my opinion they follow the same rule as all the other buildings and I already excplained above that in my opinion this thread belongs over here
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Old June 4th, 2013, 12:04 AM   #132
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700m? in new york city?! whaaaaaat?!
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Everybody can be a developer and propose a building. It is actually getting the money to build it that is the trick, yet still buildings don't get into here only after all the money to build them was found. Look at the Pentominium, that dude didn't have the money to build that building yet it still got off the ground and has a solid spot in this section
Pentominium went through these phases: Proposed -> approved -> under/construction -> on hold. It's still may be restarted and finished. It's not a vision. Even if it's canceled it's not a vision because it was u/c once. So what's your point?

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And I completely disagree that NYC buildings are treated like something more. In my opinion they follow the same rule as all the other buildings
Really? Then show me another thread with no design and no developer made for a plot with no announced plans for. There is/was thread like that made for a plot in Manhattan.

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and I already excplained above that in my opinion this thread belongs over here
all you explained is that you believe one thing is more realistic than another. But that doesn't change the fact that AT meets requirements to be called proposal and this one doesn't.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:11 AM   #134
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I agree that the Pentominium isn't a vision, it failed to get financing. This is to disprove your assumption that just because a developer says something he must automatically have the money to back his/her claims up. Also, there are actually many buildings in the proposed section that don't have a public design yet. Renders often get released far later than the info that something tall is to be built at a certain spot.

And no, there is no fact, as you like to call it, there is only your and mine opinion and I told you mine, namely that this thread belongs to this section just as much as the AT thread does
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:32 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
I agree that the Pentominium isn't a vision, it failed to get financing. This is to disprove your assumption that just because a developer says something he must automatically have the money to back his/her claims up. Also, there are actually many buildings in the proposed section that don't have a public design yet. Renders often get released far later than the info that something tall is to be built at a certain spot.
All projects without any conceptual design have developers or governments with plans to build something on them. Only new york is privileged to have threads for plots of which owners have no plans to build anything new on them.

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And no, there is no fact, as you like to call it, there is only your and mine opinion and I told you mine, namely that this thread belongs to this section just as much as the AT thread does
It's not an opinion. Projects are proposed by those who intends to build them - developers or governments, Not by architects.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #136
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I agree, this thread should not be here at all. All other vision thread had been closed so this one should. All we have are some conceptual designs that aren't going anywhere because we all know it would include billions of dollars as well as years of legal actions to push this through. AT is a part of a project well underway and we have no signs of them lying. This one, on the other hand, is just a design, nothing more. A year ago there was a PR stunt in Krakow, Poland, when a developer (Capital High) wanted to invest money into the development of their plot on the outskirts of Krakow. It all turned out to be wishful thinking (they even copied Paris twins as their design!) but it was the developer that announced it, not the architect. That is why it stuck in the proposed section for a month then died naturally. This one is a simple spam by a daydreamer.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #137
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Agree, this thread isn't neccessary at the moment
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:42 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
All projects without any conceptual design have developers or governments with plans to build something on them. Only new york is privileged to have threads for plots of which owners have no plans to build anything new on them.



It's not an opinion. Projects are proposed by those who intends to build them - developers or governments, Not by architects.
Well, I guess we just have to agree on disagreeing

As to whether this project will be built, I higly doubt it. I'm just as skeptical about it as you are, but I do think it should remain in this section
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #139
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I'm just as skeptical about it as you are, but I do think it should remain in this section
then all visions should be allowed. Not just ny ones.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 03:23 PM   #140
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Not every vision is the same. If a dude just shows a drawing of a building, that's a classic vision, but if top architectural firms make serious designs it is more than a vision. Less than a classic proposal but more than a vision
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