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Old February 3rd, 2016, 05:25 PM   #201
william of waco
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Like Tolbert, I've missed the many large areas of dense neighborhoods filled with 19th/19th century buildings around major cities. Where?
Most do. Even Dresden has a few of them. If you do a gogle maps search you will find amazing neighborhoods surrounding the bombed out city centers.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 06:02 PM   #202
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There is no bigger city in Europe that was 100% destroyed and usually the surviving parts were specifically those huge historicist quarters since they were outside of the city center. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we connected those areas with reconstructed old towns? Some countries (esp. Germany and Poland) would really benefit from it, both culturally and economically.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:20 PM   #203
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Munich (München) comes to mind
Hamburg
Bremen
Frankfurt

und so weiter
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 08:56 PM   #204
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interesting. I've been to all of these and more and saw no "large and dense neighbourhoods surrounding the city where you find street after street filled with 18th/19th century buildings".

Large concentrations of 18th century buildings in dense, multi street neighborhoods were not in outlying areas from the main parts of the cities. Expansion occurred in the 19th century, such as Striesen in Dresden, and the destruction was heavy in such areas.

I assume the reference must be to suburban areas, as finding street after street of pre war intact buildings within city limits would be a search that would end up largely unfulfilled.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 09:29 PM   #205
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Not "street after street" or as dense as one would think, but still a considerable amount of those survived (what one considers as "considerable" is something for another topic). It's only logical that the buildings that survived were the ones that were built outside the city centre, or even near the city limits. Just look at Dresden, there are practically no civil buildings (town houses and such) in the Altstadt that survived the bombings, but Neustadt has a few streets with baroque and historicist era gems. Same thing here in Zadar, the main street, Kalelarga, was heavily damaged during and after the war, but the buildings that are distant from the core of the city (mostly) escaped the bombings.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:25 PM   #206
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Dresden has quiete some beautiful streets north of the river.

A very interisting exemple i found was Lübeck. The market and other streets right in the core of the city are destroyed. But a very large part of the old center (everything around the destroyed bit) is still completely intact.
It's something I haven't seen yet in other German cities.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:25 PM   #207
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interesting. I've been to all of these and more and saw no "large and dense neighbourhoods surrounding the city where you find street after street filled with 18th/19th century buildings".

Large concentrations of 18th century buildings in dense, multi street neighborhoods were not in outlying areas from the main parts of the cities. Expansion occurred in the 19th century, such as Striesen in Dresden, and the destruction was heavy in such areas.

I assume the reference must be to suburban areas, as finding street after street of pre war intact buildings within city limits would be a search that would end up largely unfulfilled.
You obviously have not been to Germany, then.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:43 PM   #208
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I know timber framed buildings are popular for their asymetrical and "shabby" shape, but the thing is that some of them were built +400 years before they were destroyed and they (usually) didn't get any renovation during that period, so you can't compare these reconstructions with buildings we've seen on photos taken in the first half of the 20th century. Of course, new buildings do look maybe too perfect, but I don't mind it at all since I don't believe they looked drastically different when they were first built few centuries ago.
Absolutely right! Although with some obvious differences, these reconstructions probably look more like the originals when they were new. Time will quickly "age" them well (unlike many but not all modernist buildings that just look shabby and dated). You only have to go to Warsaw old town which was largely rebuilt in the 1950's but you'd hardly know it now, it has a real feeling of a genuine old town again within a span of only 60 years!
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Old February 4th, 2016, 04:27 AM   #209
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You obviously have not been to Germany, then.
You're obviously eating too much spam and it's affected your thinking.
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Old February 4th, 2016, 10:37 PM   #210
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Are there any concrete plans for future old town reconstructions once the DomRomer project is finished?
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Old February 5th, 2016, 02:42 PM   #211
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Nothing definite yet, but it was suggested that there should be more reconstructions and I guess the talks will get more serious this year or in 2017.
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Old February 5th, 2016, 04:42 PM   #212
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Like Tolbert, I've missed the many large areas of dense neighborhoods filled with 19th/19th century buildings around major cities. Where?
Yeah, somehow i seemed to grew up and live in a different Germany...

Of cause, there are exeptions, but if you talk of extended neighbourhoods only a few cities come to my mind.
There are a lot of neighbourhoods with a considerably amount of historicist buildings but they are often heavily mixed with newer buildings an even the remaining old buildings are altered.

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Old February 7th, 2016, 02:20 AM   #213
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Like Tolbert, I've missed the many large areas of dense neighborhoods filled with 19th/19th century buildings around major cities. Where?
Take Berlin for example:

Charlottenburg




Prenzlauer Berg




Kreuzberg:
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Old February 8th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #214
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Spam King, i know those quarters well, and i know that there are a lot historicist building there, but if you take a closer look, you'll recognize, that most of those buildings got altered a lot during the 30s to 50s when they got "modernized" by deornamentation. Those buildings with plane facades didnt looked that way when their where finished...
Just take a look at Vienna an you'll find a lot of buildings with partly deornamented facades. Berlin and all of Germany was very eager in getting rid of ornamentation during the Nazi reign and the decades after.

If you want to see whole quarters of unaltered historocist buildings in Germany i recommend you to visit Leipzig or even better Görlitz.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 03:57 PM   #215
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But it is 19th century architecture no matter how much you alter their exterior. So basically, he was right about that.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 04:51 PM   #216
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Except Spam King's original point wasn't the date on the corner stone. Rather, he said the statement that Germany has many cities with 'large and dense neighborhoods with street after street of 18th and 19th century buildings' is true today. In the context of this threat and the conversation about historicist exteriors, it's just not the case, except for a very few excepts such as Gorlitz.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 08:04 PM   #217
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Except Spam King's original point wasn't the date on the corner stone.
Can you quote me on that? I never made that point.

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Rather, he said the statement that Germany has many cities with 'large and dense neighborhoods with street after street of 18th and 19th century buildings' is true today.
It is. I used Berlin as an example because I lived there for many years (and still have a house there, in a late 19th century building, for that matter)

As I've shown in the pictures above, there are many neighborhoods, even in a city so devastated by the destruction of WWII as Berlin, full of old buildings.

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In the context of this threat and the conversation about historicist exteriors, it's just not the case, except for a very few excepts such as Gorlitz.
I don't see where anyone has included that caveat in the claim that there are many neighborhoods within the central areas of Germany cities full of 19th century buildings.

The fact is, despite many of them having been stripped of their ornamentation, there are thousands upon thousands of 19th century buildings in central neighborhoods across German cities.

Many of these have had their facades de-ornamentized, but they are still 19th century buildings. The ornaments on their facades could quite easily be recreated.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 10:54 PM   #218
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So, if you look it that way, you could also say, that a lot of the old buildings that survived in the mediaval city centers, that where originally build in Romanesque or Gothic times, than got altered (modernized) in Renaissance and a second time in Baroque and afterwards in Classicism are still romanesque buildings?

If we talk about a building as a whole and not just of its structure, there are few left in their original state or even close. Despite the structure might still be from 19th century, their appeariance is not! And therefore you can not say that there are large intact neigbourhoods around german citiy centers, because they are not intact!
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Old February 8th, 2016, 11:34 PM   #219
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So, if you look it that way, you could also say, that a lot of the old buildings that survived in the mediaval city centers, that where originally build in Romanesque or Gothic times, than got altered (modernized) in Renaissance and a second time in Baroque and afterwards in Classicism are still romanesque buildings?

If we talk about a building as a whole and not just of its structure, there are few left in their original state or even close. Despite the structure might still be from 19th century, their appeariance is not! And therefore you can not say that there are large intact neigbourhoods around german citiy centers, because they are not intact!
Those historicist buildings are not intact BY WAR, that's what we are saying. Also, you can't compare de-ornamented buildings with Renaissance-to-Baroque buildings, the later usually had far more alterations to their exterior, and in many cases even the interior. It's like a whole different building. The historicist ones just lost their outer decoration, which can be restored easily, and to me they usually don't look early modernist, the differences between an early modernist (which plays with lines) and stripped historicist building (which is just plain) are very obvious.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 11:38 PM   #220
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So, if you look it that way, you could also say, that a lot of the old buildings that survived in the mediaval city centers, that where originally build in Romanesque or Gothic times, than got altered (modernized) in Renaissance and a second time in Baroque and afterwards in Classicism are still romanesque buildings?

If we talk about a building as a whole and not just of its structure, there are few left in their original state or even close.
Exactly.

it seems disingenuous in a forum that is focused on the exterior appearances of pre WWII buildings that anyone would claim that the exterior look and feel doesn't matter, as long as the cornerstone (synonym for construction date) is from an older time.

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Despite the structure might still be from 19th century, their appeariance is not! And therefore you can not say that there are large intact neigbourhoods around german citiy centers, because they are not intact!
Agree completely. And it's not even opinion, it's quantifiable. While there are a few buildings here and there and some rare, whole blocks that remain original which can be referenced, 'large and dense neighborhoods of street after street filled with 18th and 19th century buildings' are a mirage. I'd love it not to be the case, but alas, the carpet bombing did work and most of the immediate repairs did not.
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