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Old December 13th, 2016, 12:39 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
Out of interest, how much does it cost to re-build one of these buildings, or how much is the whole city centre scheme costing?
Good question. The demolition of the commie block owned by the city, witch needed renovation anyway, the attachment to the "Schirn" Gallery next to it add up. There is also the build of the two underground levels for technical appliances, underground parking for owners and shoppers as well as private basements. Another price is for the pavement and city furniture (lamps for example). All this plus the city owned Stadthaus come the public hand to a total of 185 Million. The money is being regained by selling the plots and by charging water, power and media hook up fees.
Private houses and the basements are private business. The government loses nothing and could have saved by skipping the Stadthaus for shows, expeditions and room rentals. There are 25 reconstructions and 20 newly builds. The demand was 10 times that much. Most people have a private garden with small cottage out of town.
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Old December 13th, 2016, 12:55 AM   #302
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B.t.w. The underground parking is already in usage by the contractors. Let`s have a look at the grand opening and the "Parking Fest" celebrations. (Serious. They had a underground fest) Germans need no excuse to get some beer and wine it seems!
This happened already back in June 2013!














A little bit of color does a lot!


We are happy to announce to have done everything to protect what we Germans like most: Our cars!!!!







pictures from Dom Roemer Frankfurt, thanks!
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Old December 13th, 2016, 01:17 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
Out of interest, how much does it cost to re-build one of these buildings, or how much is the whole city centre scheme costing?
This is totally doable in Great Britain, too. Ask the Dom Roemer association for info and help. They are interconnected with the other projects in Germany.

We will now visit a stone masonry shop in Bamberg (town)
Many parts for Frankfurt coming from here.








The name of the company is on the shirt














After robots do the groundwork for money and time reasons, people work by hand:

source by Dom Roemer Frankfurt, thanks
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Old December 18th, 2016, 12:38 AM   #304
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And now a overview!


The red colored gothic cathedral is where coronations took place


The round church on the right was used for the first elected parliament on the 18th of March1848. It needs some partial reconstruction, too!


In the background the demolished concrete monster, where the build is now.

Wikipedia

Still two houses missing in the lower left corner:







source Dom Roemer Frankfurt!


One more subject. Between the Paulus church tower and the mini tower on the white ornamented gable, that is the city hall, there is a tower in the distance. That tower (there are two towers, the second is smaller in front) has to be reconstructed. Both towers used to be much more beautiful and way higher! Also the reddish low building with greenish roof between the old tower and the church needs a roof reconstruction. The building in front of the yellow crane in the distance. That build is connected via bridge to the city hall block. It used to have a beautiful baroque mansard roof with two onion tower cones on top. Todays roof is an emergency from WW2 and because of too flat leaks! Much to do!
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Old December 18th, 2016, 01:19 AM   #305
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We had the house "Klein Nurnberg" introduced here before. Here now for our fans here in the forum some pictures for the original reconstruction inside of it!:

Official address: "Hinter dem Laemmchen #8"






During a media showing on the construction site










And this is what it is for!





Just the same way as in the early days. Used to be wood back then.


This owner uses too much concrete, I think. But I can`t complain with the rest.
[/img]
source Dom Roemer Frankfurt, thanks.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 01:32 AM   #306
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City Hall reconstructions
Used to be like this:




Today like this:

source Franz von Hoven & Ludwig Neher and wiki
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Old December 20th, 2016, 08:52 PM   #307
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Well at least it wasn't fully demolished and more of it can be reconstructed in the future.
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Old December 27th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eagle View Post
City Hall reconstructions
Used to be like this:




Today like this:

source Franz von Hoven & Ludwig Neher and wiki
Any real chance for this to be reconstructed properly???
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Old December 28th, 2016, 12:54 AM   #309
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This is really fascinating, isn't it? The City Hall as it stands today is very, very beautiful, yet it could be so much better...
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Old December 29th, 2016, 01:59 AM   #310
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Wow is all I can say. Really amazing project, Im so happpy for the people of Frankfurt. I hope some day that in my city Dublin we will reconstruct some of our architectural gems llost to modernism , which were replaced by generally unremarkable concrete cubes that blight the historic fabric.

Also, is this the first of multiple phases of reconstruction of the old town? Or is this it, no further plans for reconstruction after this?
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Old December 29th, 2016, 05:43 PM   #311
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The new Old Quarter consists of a total of 35 old houses, of which 15 are reconstructions and 20 are new buildings (so-called "interpretations"). The whole project will be done early 2018. No further reconstructions are currently planned thereafter.

You can find more details on the website of the project:
http://www.domroemer.de/english-information
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Old December 30th, 2016, 12:28 AM   #312
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Well, they plan to reconstruct the old towers of the City Hall (Langer Franz and Kleiner Cohn) at least. Shown in the comparison pics above. There also were some talks to extend the old town reconstruction, but indeed nothing definite yet.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 02:23 AM   #313
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Also, is this the first of multiple phases of reconstruction of the old town? Or is this it, no further plans for reconstruction after this?
That is something that will be of much interest in this forum. I could get very, very interesting pictures, I hope. This project is a project for it self. However this is the third big project in this part of town. The city hall complex towards "dem Romer" was the first one. Some parts where already finished 1947. The new government after the war, put in by the allies, stopped all reconstruction because the previous government had promised a complete reconstruction of all of downtown. They wanted to do the opposite. So new builds where put down. The second big wave came in the 80`s. This is the third wave in this area. Frankfurt has had tons of reconstructions throughout the last years. A little street tower watch here, a monument of some knight there and some houses here and there. Or historical streetlights, towers on public buildings and so on.
They also put down some hybrids of old and new. Or new looking old. But that could not diminish the demand. And the government tried to stop some projects. The city hall towers where on the radar of some big bank in the 1980`s to get sponsored. But it did not happened. The association planning the city hall now is busy right now with some bridge alterations and putting some medieval Kaiser monument back. They are almost finished. The towers come next.

Anyhow, there are talks of a fourth wave.
The remains and parts of at least 100 more houses are kept in basements, gardens or by the city and wasting rent money!

I like to post some pictures of the 50`s and 60`s and later. Because some squares where already occupied by modern stuff and barley recognizable.
If others like to post pictures, please do.
It is really difficult to get pictures of this massive project.

B.t.w: There is not much noise from this and other re-construction projects throughout the country because of little opposition. The opposition in Dresden and a little bit in Potsdam caused the story to go mainstream and to end up on Skyscrapercity. So funny enough, from outside it looks like Dresden and Potsdam where a smooth ride, all doe it was the opposide!
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Old January 1st, 2017, 10:27 PM   #314
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Anyhow, there are talks of a fourth wave. The remains and parts of at least 100 more houses are kept in basements, gardens or by the city and wasting rent money!
Once the Dom Roemer Project is done (as well as the "Historische Museum") in around 15 months the city will have lots free capacity again as well as lots of know-how for getting such a vast reconstruction project done. Should refinancing continue to be possible at such favorable conditions, then there may yet be a fourth wave.

If I may speculate, the new focus for reconstruction could possibly shift to the area between the Roemer square and the new Maintor Project (the so-called Western Old Town). There was even an article from August 2015, speculating that one of Frankfurt's city cabinets (e.g. official building housing the "Amt für Personal und Organisation (POA)") may make room. I would, however, rate the chances for realizing such a project at 20% the highest, due to the costs involved and the need for carrying out infrastructure programs elsewhere in the city (schools, roads, living quarters).
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 11:11 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Age View Post
The new Old Quarter consists of a total of 35 old houses, of which 15 are reconstructions and 20 are new buildings (so-called "interpretations"). The whole project will be done early 2018. No further reconstructions are currently planned thereafter.

You can find more details on the website of the project:
http://www.domroemer.de/english-information
How extensive was the original old town? How much of it will have been reconstructed by 2018?
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 04:36 PM   #316
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How extensive was the original old town? How much of it will have been reconstructed by 2018?
The original Old Town was very extensive and used to consist of approx. 2000 buildings at the start of the early 20th century. They consisted mostly of wooden half-timbered houses, which were built very closely together forming narrow alleys. It used to be Germany's biggest medieval city center with plenty of ornate Gothic buildings. To get a feeling of what Frankfurt must have looked like, today's Old Towns of Strasbourg or Colmar in France offer a good basis for comparison, as they have plenty of half-timbered buildings there.

My best guess is that by the year 2018 about 2-3% of this Old Town will be restored, which does not mean that all of these buildings are 100% reconstructions, but are approximations of what they used to look like. This is no small feat, as it took lots of political capital and funding to get this done.

By European, and even by German standards, Frankfurt is a "late-comer" to the reconstruction effort. In the 50's it rebuilt its city center more in terms of functionality (e.g. car-centricity, one-size-fits-all concrete buildings), while other cities in Southern Germany rebuilt more according to historical precedence (e.g. Munich, Freiburg, Nuremberg, Wuerzburg, Ulm).
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 04:55 PM   #317
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Here you can see most of the old town of Frankfurt. The area that is being reconstructed right now is from the left of the large church to to the square further left. The reconstructed part will only represent a fraction of what was there before.



If you're interested, you can see some photos of a 3d model of the old town here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...ain?uselang=de
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 08:03 PM   #318
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Thanks for the info! What happened to Germany during WWII was such a huge loss for Europe. Glad to see some reconstruction taking place.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 08:54 PM   #319
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City planners in Frankfurt actually had a real window of opportunity following WWII to rebuild somewhat similarly to the picture posted by TM_Germany (e.g. at least preserving the cityscape meaning the grid of many tiny streets, market squares, pedestrian areas, etc.).

Many old buildings in Frankfurt, which could have been easily saved and were only partially damaged, were torn down, as they were considered symbols of the past (this was also due to the ideology of those specific city planners; this really varied in Germany from city to city).

What's really made it hard for Frankfurt to rebuild "organically" is that it is a rather small city in proportion to the huge amount of commuters coming to the city each day (airport, fair grounds, ECB, etc.).

Instead of expanding the city, it was made much more commuter-friendly (speak vehicle friendly), which is also due to Germany's strong love affair with the car.

Since then there has been some strong rethinking on this front though and a new generation of planners is much more willing to strengthen the core city centers with contemporary old town projects as seen in Frankfurt, Dresden or Potsdam.

Last edited by Golden Age; January 2nd, 2017 at 09:35 PM.
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Old January 2nd, 2017, 09:45 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Age View Post
City planners in Frankfurt actually had a real window of opportunity following WWII to rebuild somewhat similarly to the picture posted by TM_Germany (e.g. at least preserving the cityscape meaning the grid of many tiny streets, market squares, pedestrian areas, etc.).

Many old buildings in Frankfurt, which could have been easily saved and were only partially damaged, were torn down, as they were considered symbols of the past (this was also due to the ideology of those specific city planners; this really varied in Germany from city to city).

What's really made it hard for Frankfurt to rebuild "organically" is that it is a rather small city in proportion to the huge amount of commuters coming to the city each day (airport, fair grounds, ECB, etc.).

Instead of expanding the city, it was made much more commuter-friendly (speak vehicle friendly), which is also due to Germany's strong love affair with the car.

Since then there has been some strong rethinking on this front though and a new generation of planners is much more willing to strengthen the core city centers with contemporary old town projects as seen in Frankfurt, Dresden or Potsdam.
And those city planners were not allowed to do whatever they wanted anyway. Germany was completely occupied and essentially ruled by the occupying forces. The governments that were set up were puppet governments, basically, intended to govern by the terms of the occupiers. The terms included what and how was to be built in large part, especially when the financing was coming from the Allies. The two biggest barriers to true rebuilding after the war were desire to shed the past on all levels and expediency.
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