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Old August 24th, 2015, 06:38 PM   #141
cloud32
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Some really nice images & discussions here! I as a rule support reconstructions although there are some issues - I think the reason the whole of this development cannot immediately match the old medieval houses is because of costs - hiring highly skilled carpenters (of which i cant imagine there are many left now) to reconstruct every single plot would be expensive & time consuming. Also you then have to get the dimensions of every building exactly right - its not possible for all of them to have such intense photos taken pre-war that a faithful reconstruction can take place. No body wants something that kind of looks right but isn't - that's insulting the original building in that its original beauty would be forgotten. So instead of creating weird, almost-clones I think the architects of this development have settled for weird post modern buildings which are similar in spirit to what was there without trying too hard to copy them completely. Although I find these buildings ugly, I think they are suitable in this context.
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Old August 29th, 2015, 03:53 PM   #142
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There are buildings which are declared faithful reconstructions and they are.
Others are indeed postmodern and they don't shy away from being clear about this.

Anyway. Additional recent photos of the Dom-Römer project and adjacent Frankfurt old town areas:

http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/bilder/album/ss
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Old August 30th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #143
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In the meantime, Georg Zastrau, an architect, has proposed an idea to tear down the 50s building south of the city hall, and rebuild following historical layout. The project is called Reanimation Altstadt 2.0. He could imagine reconstructions of historical buildings (mostly timberframed) at the squares of Römerberg and Leonhards church.
Would love to see this coming. Now all depends on our politicians.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 11:22 PM   #144
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It's interesting how fast this project is compared to the reconstruction of Dresden's Neumarkt. The number of buildings in both projects is quite similar, both include reconstructions and postmodern buildings, but something is obviously slowing Dresden's project. Frankfurt's Altstadt will be finished in few years, but the fate of Dresden's Altstadt remains unknown. And yet, Frankfurt's citizens want the enlargement of their project while Dresden's can only hope based on treatment of their project by city's politicians. I'm surprised it's not the opposite since Frankfurt doesn't actually "need" old buildings because it's famous for its skyscrapers (although I'm more than thrilled that they are reconstructing them) and Dresden was called "Elbflorenz" so few old buildings would do only good to its reputation. The only word I can say is: politics...
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Old August 31st, 2015, 11:47 AM   #145
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It's interesting how fast this project is compared to the reconstruction of Dresden's Neumarkt. The number of buildings in both projects is quite similar, both include reconstructions and postmodern buildings, but something is obviously slowing Dresden's project. Frankfurt's Altstadt will be finished in few years, but the fate of Dresden's Altstadt remains unknown. And yet, Frankfurt's citizens want the enlargement of their project while Dresden's can only hope based on treatment of their project by city's politicians. I'm surprised it's not the opposite since Frankfurt doesn't actually "need" old buildings because it's famous for its skyscrapers (although I'm more than thrilled taht they are reconstructing them) and Dresden was called "Elbflorenz" so few old buildings would do only good to its reputation. The only word I can say is: politics...
I believe the citizens of Frankfurt would like an altstadt as much as they will in Dresden. Just 400-500 metres times 400-500 metres entirely with old buildings and a piazza/square would do wonders in Frankfurt. Frankfurt was famous for beautiful buildings like Dresden before WW2.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q_WGHXnqn-...5B6merberg.jpg

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Old August 31st, 2015, 10:16 PM   #146
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I believe the citizens of Frankfurt would like an altstadt as much as they will in Dresden. Just 400-500 metres times 400-500 metres entirely with old buildings and a piazza/square would do wonders in Frankfurt. Frankfurt was famous for beautiful buildings like Dresden before WW2.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q_WGHXnqn-...5B6merberg.jpg
Of course they would, I mean, who wouldn't. But what I wanted to say is that the city itself doesn't need it, since the area could've been covered with skyscrapers and office buildings, which Frankfurt probably needs since it's European financial center. Dresden doesn't need office buildings and it should rely on tourism, so it's only logical to reconstruct lost buildings. Yet Frankfurt is the one that wants bigger and better and Dresden is the one that is indecisive and slow.

P.S. I think that Frankfurt should reconstruct the whole Altstadt. The area is not that big, it isn't covered with skyscrapers and it only contains cheap, modernist blocks from 50s and 60s. It would be spectacular to have a medieval old town next to 21st-century skyscraper city.
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Old September 5th, 2015, 01:56 AM   #147
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Some really nice images & discussions here! I as a rule support reconstructions although there are some issues - I think the reason the whole of this development cannot immediately match the old medieval houses is because of costs - hiring highly skilled carpenters (of which i cant imagine there are many left now) to reconstruct every single plot would be expensive & time consuming.
What has gone wrong? Our societies are a lot wealthier than in former times when these old towns have been constructed. And nowadays it's not possible to reconstruct them because of costs? I guess it's a lack of will, not of money.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 05:50 PM   #148
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What has gone wrong? Our societies are a lot wealthier than in former times when these old towns have been constructed. And nowadays it's not possible to reconstruct them because of costs? I guess it's a lack of will, not of money.
Hundreds of years ago when labor was paid almost nothing and maybe provided with "three squares" of food per day in order to maintain their stamina, things got built for much less cost. Today with labor unions and skilled craftsmen earning very high wages, of course money (and lack of it) is a major factor. Having "will" an limited or non-existing funds is called dreaming. I'm all for dreaming of what can be, but when reality sets in, the workers want big bucks.
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Old September 6th, 2015, 08:33 PM   #149
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Hundreds of years ago when labor was paid almost nothing and maybe provided with "three squares" of food per day in order to maintain their stamina, things got built for much less cost. Today with labor unions and skilled craftsmen earning very high wages, of course money (and lack of it) is a major factor. Having "will" an limited or non-existing funds is called dreaming. I'm all for dreaming of what can be, but when reality sets in, the workers want big bucks.
I don't agree that this is the main issue. It is mostly an issue of ideology, politics and will. Advocates of boxy or discordant styles have often found vast fortunes to blow on them, especially if they were spending public money. We could easily have had a Gothic-revival or Baroque Scottish Partliament for the cost of the hideous 'postmodern' thing that was built, I dare say. Also, skilled artists and craftsmen were always expensive to employ, and labour organisation is not a modern phenomenon. Trade guilds were very powerful in ancient and medieval times.
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Old September 7th, 2015, 08:49 PM   #150
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Money is not so much the issue, because they had to put up a lottery for the properties to be reconstructed. There where very though rules to participate in the lottery. At the end there where 10 participants for every plot. The people had to have money, ideas, being local, willing to live there and do no franchise. Also had a very short time to come forward.

The political correctness is against re-construction. The idea of Germany being diferent then France or England is not honoured in an EU that want's to get away with national states.
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Old September 7th, 2015, 08:57 PM   #151
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Zu den drei Roemer




approved by Heimdall, thanks
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Old November 8th, 2015, 05:55 PM   #152
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I wish we had a Ludi or Halifax in Frankfurt keeping us updated. It seems new photos are few and far between.
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Old November 8th, 2015, 09:07 PM   #153
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You got that one right! We miss out on a lot of picks
Address: Offener Markt 28 House name "Wuerzgarten"


House name: Goldene Schachtel

from user Heimdall, Thanks
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Old November 8th, 2015, 09:13 PM   #154
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House name "Zu den drei Roemern" Before 1780 no street address. Therefore every house in Germany had It's own name.




The round thing is the Schirn. Part of a large museum.


View from the Braubach Strasse


This will be house "Rebstock"


This house will be "Goldene Waage"


The new office and museum building owned by Frankfurt is being clad in red, common in Frankfurt




The old/new Bendergasse street between Schirn and city offices


Well, 50 houses under construction, plus subway and underground basements plus underground delivery and parking under that. That is what it looks like. Feels Medieval narrow already!-)


house "Wuerzgarten" on the right house "Schlegel" Markt 26


This is a picture taken from a graphic. That is below the Stadthaus. Free to the public. The walls are the founding walls of Frankfurt


This is close by. On the right rebuild, on the left new. Build in the 80's

Photos from Heimdall, thanks
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Old November 10th, 2015, 05:55 PM   #155
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Part of me envies how Germany undertakes reconstruction of historic buildings, but part of me also thinks its perhaps a bit fake and backwards too. It'll be interesting to see what the end result is like. The plans look good. It'll come down to the attention to detail whether it is a sucess or not in my opinion.
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Old November 10th, 2015, 10:11 PM   #156
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Part of me envies how Germany undertakes reconstruction of historic buildings, but part of me also thinks its perhaps a bit fake and backwards too. It'll be interesting to see what the end result is like. The plans look good. It'll come down to the attention to detail whether it is a sucess or not in my opinion.
People still play jazz, paint graffiti, go to theatre and dance lambada, so what is wrong with old architecture? Fake is, if it is only the facades which is old and made of e.g. plastic, like in an amusement park, and there is nothing real inside. Gdansk and Dresden are examples of real beauties.
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Old November 10th, 2015, 10:19 PM   #157
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It also seemed a little backwards to me, but when you take into consideration that Germany is a country that almost completely rebuilt itself in modern style, which turned out to be failure, you have to agree that reconstruction is now the only real way for German cities. Reconstruction can bring back life to German cities, they could be able to show their architectural uniqueness (German cities had plenty of it before WW2) and it can also boost tourism which would bring only good to Germany. That's why all my doubts about reconstruction quickly faded away with all those ugly modernist buildings.
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Old November 10th, 2015, 11:05 PM   #158
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Its interesting the different philosophies of England and Germany when it comes to old buildings. In university we were taught by English Heritage that to rebuild historic buildings only detracts from the integrity of real old buildings in the area. They encouraged us to mark a clear line between old and new. Restoration of dilapidated old buildings was considered fine though, which always puzzled me somewhat i have to admit.
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Old November 11th, 2015, 12:05 AM   #159
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Looks like a great "excuse" for architects to pollute with their "modernist" crap...
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Old November 11th, 2015, 04:13 AM   #160
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Its interesting the different philosophies of England and Germany when it comes to old buildings. In university we were taught by English Heritage that to rebuild historic buildings only detracts from the integrity of real old buildings in the area. They encouraged us to mark a clear line between old and new. Restoration of dilapidated old buildings was considered fine though, which always puzzled me somewhat i have to admit.
Oh, they teach the same at German universities. That's why ever reconstruction is a fight against windmills in Germany. Most star architects are strictly against reconstructions.
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