daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 11th, 2015, 11:41 AM   #161
cyril sneer
Registered User
 
cyril sneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Exeter / Plymouth / Birmingham
Posts: 3,548
Likes (Received): 840

I think it was quite symbolic to do rebuilds straight after the war. I don't quite understand the thinking of doing rebuilds some 70 years after the war though. The generation who witnessed the original buildings have pretty much passed on now and the original buildings are now of little if any relevance to the current generation. I do find it interesting though to see mock period buildings going up though as its interesting to observe the different techniques used.
cyril sneer no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 11th, 2015, 02:29 PM   #162
Tolbert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,101
Likes (Received): 1612

With that in mind, you could demolish any building older than 100 years....
Tolbert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 02:45 PM   #163
cyril sneer
Registered User
 
cyril sneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Exeter / Plymouth / Birmingham
Posts: 3,548
Likes (Received): 840

No really because the existing historic buildings are still relevant to the people today because they have grown up with them just as much as someone who lived 100 years ago did.
cyril sneer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 02:47 PM   #164
cyril sneer
Registered User
 
cyril sneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Exeter / Plymouth / Birmingham
Posts: 3,548
Likes (Received): 840

Anyway i don't want to detract away from this project with conversation diverting away from topic. As i say i look forward to seeing the techniques used to build this scheme and the detail they go to finish the buildings off.
cyril sneer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 03:11 PM   #165
joe aranjo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 14
Likes (Received): 0

Not really impressed
joe aranjo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 03:23 PM   #166
joe aranjo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 14
Likes (Received): 0

impressive
joe aranjo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 03:50 PM   #167
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
No really because the existing historic buildings are still relevant to the people today because they have grown up with them just as much as someone who lived 100 years ago did.
One does not have to personally see or physically touch and utilize a building to understand and appreciate its relevance. Vastly the opposite. Most people "grew up with" important architecture from photographs, histories, and stories which created a timeless relevancy that reconstructions bring back to life, thankfully.
__________________

erbse, Pod°, Wiederschönmachung liked this post
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 04:02 PM   #168
Titan Man
Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-nana
 
Titan Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Zadar
Posts: 593
Likes (Received): 719

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
Anyway i don't want to detract away from this project with conversation diverting away from topic. As i say i look forward to seeing the techniques used to build this scheme and the detail they go to finish the buildings off.
I think this discussion is not off topic since we're talking about reconstruction and we had an update from the construction site earlier this week, so why leaving the thread dead for another two months...

Anyway, I don't understand the logic that says it has been 70 years from the WW2 and we don't remember those buildings. I mean, who cares about time?! It is all about whether people would like having old, beautiful buildings in their city, and, in this case, the answer is YES! The apartments were sold in no time, there is even some talk about enlarging the project and they are restoring the urban fabric that had grown for centuries. There just can't be any serious argument against all that. Buildings MUST be designed for people, not architects and their egos.
__________________
Titan Man no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 11:41 PM   #169
MikkelAndersen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Likes (Received): 259

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
I think this discussion is not off topic since we're talking about reconstruction and we had an update from the construction site earlier this week, so why leaving the thread dead for another two months...

Anyway, I don't understand the logic that says it has been 70 years from the WW2 and we don't remember those buildings. I mean, who cares about time?! It is all about whether people would like having old, beautiful buildings in their city, and, in this case, the answer is YES! The apartments were sold in no time, there is even some talk about enlarging the project and they are restoring the urban fabric that had grown for centuries. There just can't be any serious argument against all that. Buildings MUST be designed for people, not architects and their egos.
Spot on. I adore old buildings and hate modern glass squares with no ornaments. Of course you should be able to build architecture like 100 years ago. Tell me any other art where you are restricted? People play jazz, paint graffiti, and go to ballet. I believe cities like e.g. Dresden will benefit greatly from rebuilding - tourists and locals alike. The same will hopefully happen to Frankfurt.
__________________
MikkelAndersen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2015, 11:17 AM   #170
Hertog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 39
Likes (Received): 47

I do agree that there can be a moment when it is 'too late' to reconstruct something. A discussion like this can be helpful and valid. But there will always be people on both 'edges'. Close to where I live, there is talk of restoring a castle tower that has been gone since the 18th century. On the other hand, a castle that was partially damaged in 1945 has been given a very ugly modernist top that should 'honour' the original appearance but looks like someone dropped an office on top of it. I know that last bit sounded a bit more judgemental but in fact I personally disapprove of both extremes.

But in this case, I think the case for restoration is a valid one. Most points in favour have already been mentioned, but I just think this 'feels right' for the Frankfurter Altstadt .
__________________

keepthepast, Mruczek liked this post
Hertog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #171
ELH
Registered User
 
ELH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo / Hannover
Posts: 389
Likes (Received): 581

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
I think it was quite symbolic to do rebuilds straight after the war. I don't quite understand the thinking of doing rebuilds some 70 years after the war though. The generation who witnessed the original buildings have pretty much passed on now and the original buildings are now of little if any relevance to the current generation. I do find it interesting though to see mock period buildings going up though as its interesting to observe the different techniques used.
I don´t understand why one has the need to found the reason to rebuild or not rebuild in some philosophy og thought system.

There is a market for the re-building for commercial reasons (even if some reconstructions are decided at a city-political level).

I agree with one other member here, saying that the degree of success relies on the "attention to detail". An exterion reconstruction should be an exact replica at all exterior levels.

Personally, I find premodern and Gründerzeit architecture more aethetically pleasing than anzthing that has come afterwards. For me, it is simply a pleasure to follow for all but philosophical reasons.
__________________

keepthepast, Rohne, erbse, Galro liked this post
ELH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 27th, 2015, 03:18 PM   #172
robertwood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 228
Likes (Received): 273

I live near St. Augustine, Florida which is said to be the oldest city in the U.S. I can tell you there are not all that many surviving old buildings but tourists come from all over the U.S. and from Central and South America to see the place, mostly because it is beautiful. I would estimate that at least half of what people see in St. Augustine was built in the 20th century to look old. Still, its beautiful and a great place to visit.
__________________

erbse, Wiederschönmachung liked this post
robertwood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2015, 06:03 PM   #173
cameronpaul
Paris-the city beautiful
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 921
Likes (Received): 461

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
Part of me envies how Germany undertakes reconstruction of historic buildings, but part of me also thinks its perhaps a bit fake and backwards too. It'll be interesting to see what the end result is like. The plans look good. It'll come down to the attention to detail whether it is a sucess or not in my opinion.
There is nothing fake about reconstructing buildings from the past that have been destroyed or using historical elements in new buildings. If for instance you build a copy of say, the Palace of Westminster in London, in a theme park in Florida then that is obviously a fake. Would you call St.Paul's Cathedral in London a fake? It uses classical design elements from ancient Greece and Rome but was built some 1,600 years after that time.
__________________
cameronpaul no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:11 AM   #174
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril sneer View Post
No really because the existing historic buildings are still relevant to the people today because they have grown up with them just as much as someone who lived 100 years ago did.
History and tradition are more important to some people than others - I think it's a matter of temperament and perspective. I love to see the restoration and recovery of a beautiful building, any place in the world. Bringing beauty back to life is always worthwhile.
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis

erbse liked this post
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 1st, 2015, 12:26 PM   #175
cyril sneer
Registered User
 
cyril sneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Exeter / Plymouth / Birmingham
Posts: 3,548
Likes (Received): 840

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronpaul View Post
There is nothing fake about reconstructing buildings from the past that have been destroyed or using historical elements in new buildings. If for instance you build a copy of say, the Palace of Westminster in London, in a theme park in Florida then that is obviously a fake. Would you call St.Paul's Cathedral in London a fake? It uses classical design elements from ancient Greece and Rome but was built some 1,600 years after that time.
Thats a fair point, but I'd say St Paul's was more influenced by ancient Greek architecture than a straight up mock copy. There is quite a difference between carrying architectural influences in a design and a mock like for like top to bottom copy .

As I say i like to see restoration of run down historic buildings, and one off rebuilds such as the Dresden Cathedral are also quite symbolic, but a large scale rebuild of an historic area does not sit comfortably with me. I find it very interesting how Germany and the UK have differing philosophys for restorations. This sort of project would never happen in the UK, it didn't even happen in the UK in the post war period, let alone 70 odd years later. But for that same reason it'll be interesting to see this project develop as i have never seen a large scale rebuild of historic buildings. Timber frame Tudor houses happen to be my favourite architecture style along with Georgian architecture
__________________

Jasper90 liked this post

Last edited by cyril sneer; December 1st, 2015 at 12:34 PM.
cyril sneer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2015, 07:24 PM   #176
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,433
Likes (Received): 13459

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikkelAndersen View Post
Spot on. I adore old buildings and hate modern glass squares with no ornaments. Of course you should be able to build architecture like 100 years ago. Tell me any other art where you are restricted? People play jazz, paint graffiti, and go to ballet. I believe cities like e.g. Dresden will benefit greatly from rebuilding - tourists and locals alike. The same will hopefully happen to Frankfurt.
In Frankfurt Altstadt I'd suggest 300 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
Anyway, I don't understand the logic that says it has been 70 years from the WW2 and we don't remember those buildings. I mean, who cares about time?! It is all about whether people would like having old, beautiful buildings in their city, and, in this case, the answer is YES!
They might be beautiful, but they are not old, that's the whole point!

On the other hand, time passes quickly. In 50 to 70 years from now on, this small historical falsification will be, how to put it, lost in time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
The apartments were sold in no time, there is even some talk about enlarging the project and they are restoring the urban fabric that had grown for centuries.
I agree that's a great success indeed, but frankly speaking I doubt it was reconstruction effect. In such economy like Frankfurt every high standard residential buildings 500-1000 metres from Mainhattan will be sold on the spot. Urban fabric can be created with reconstructions, but it can be equally easy created with modern (and often quite repetitive and if I may: ugly) buildings - see Spain and its architecture of the 2nd half of 20th century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
There just can't be any serious argument against all that. Buildings MUST be designed for people, not architects and their egos.
Not just people. Specific people. People, who can afford to pay

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronpaul View Post
There is nothing fake about reconstructing buildings from the past that have been destroyed or using historical elements in new buildings. If for instance you build a copy of say, the Palace of Westminster in London, in a theme park in Florida then that is obviously a fake. Would you call St.Paul's Cathedral in London a fake? It uses classical design elements from ancient Greece and Rome but was built some 1,600 years after that time.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but IIRC what was burnt in 1666, was actually English Gothical cathedral. And it was rebuild in barocco/classicism. For people living at that time Christopher Wren's project must have been cutting edge, super-modern building.

It would be reconstruction, if they build the original Gothic structure anew.

This is the greatest paradox of architecture that with modern society and later modern architecture in 19th and 20th century the monument protection and re-creation movement was created.
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Last edited by Mruczek; December 2nd, 2015 at 07:33 PM.
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2015, 01:05 AM   #177
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post

They might be beautiful, but they are not old, that's the whole point!
No. You missed the point...again.
__________________

Wiederschönmachung liked this post
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2015, 12:30 PM   #178
[email protected]
Global Citizen
 
R@ptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Frankfurt
Posts: 4,295
Likes (Received): 6366

Seen from the 50th floor of the Commerzbank Tower

R@ptor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2015, 03:03 AM   #179
AleksLazarevic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 761
Likes (Received): 356

Has anyone got a good picture of the whole Frankfurt old Town before WW2?
AleksLazarevic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2015, 03:18 PM   #180
Tolbert
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,101
Likes (Received): 1612

Google ?
Tolbert no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
frankfurt, old town, reconstruction

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu