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Old February 9th, 2014, 04:44 PM   #401
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Easier said than done it's forums such as these which fulfill that very purpose and in real time as well.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #402
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For some reason, Chinese railways do not manage to send large numbers of people through relatively small stations, like Shinjuku or Shin-Osaka. Chinese queue up in and around stations, instead of showing up just in time to embark like Japanese.
Certainly these roomy stations are better for passenger experience than the cattle chutes they have in Japan.

The only ones I wonder about are the stations in smaller cities that only have conventional speed railway lines leading to them, especially long-distance one. In the future more affordable air travel and better highways would seem to threaten this type of travel.
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Old February 11th, 2014, 10:51 AM   #403
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How do major Chinese railway stations look at the rush hour of returning from New Year
baidu search result

Shanghai Hongqiao


Shijiazhuang
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Old February 11th, 2014, 11:23 AM   #404
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The only ones I wonder about are the stations in smaller cities that only have conventional speed railway lines leading to them, especially long-distance one. In the future more affordable air travel and better highways would seem to threaten this type of travel.
The question is - should the slow speed railways (and their stations) also be improved?
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Old February 12th, 2014, 01:43 AM   #405
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I'm surprised Hongqiao looked that "organized," when I was there last week it's packed full of people and I'm having trouble making it to my gate.
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Old February 12th, 2014, 02:07 AM   #406
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I'm surprised Hongqiao looked that "organized," when I was there last week it's packed full of people and I'm having trouble making it to my gate.
It's baidu searched photo and it may be taken before the peak. Did you take any picture yourself?
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Old February 12th, 2014, 09:29 AM   #407
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Certainly these roomy stations are better for passenger experience than the cattle chutes they have in Japan.
The stations in empty countryside far from existing homes, jobs and public transport are worse than the Shinkansen stations in long established central city stations.
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Old February 12th, 2014, 07:40 PM   #408
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The stations in empty countryside far from existing homes, jobs and public transport are worse than the Shinkansen stations in long established central city stations.
Most Chinese HSR stations have decent public transportation access, so it's not really an issue. Also Chinese HSR stations are quickly surrounded by new developments so it's hardly "empty countryside." No other countries in the world has to deal with situations like Chunyun, so their experience and station design simply don't apply.
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Old February 12th, 2014, 07:45 PM   #409
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It's baidu searched photo and it may be taken before the peak. Did you take any picture yourself?
No, I was busy dragging my luggage and making sure my wallet doesn't get stolen.
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Old February 13th, 2014, 01:37 PM   #410
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Most Chinese HSR stations have decent public transportation access, so it's not really an issue. Also Chinese HSR stations are quickly surrounded by new developments so it's hardly "empty countryside." No other countries in the world has to deal with situations like Chunyun, so their experience and station design simply don't apply.
Yes, but non-New Year situation applies 11 months per year.
Shanghai station is unusual in being an old station that does have significant high speed service - though mostly as far as Nanjing, both Nanjing and Nanjing South.

What is the point of train D618, originating at Shanghai Station at 2:06, sic!

How is Shanghai Station handling the New Year loads (lots of L trains!) and how convenient is Shanghai station at normal times?
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Old February 13th, 2014, 05:43 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
The stations in empty countryside far from existing homes, jobs and public transport are worse than the Shinkansen stations in long established central city stations.

Which is a good thing. You are thinking for yesterday's conditions not tomorrow's. Infrastructure projects has to provide some level of future proofing. China is building a new high speed network for future, it is not upgrading current lines for yesterday's needs.
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Old February 13th, 2014, 08:56 PM   #412
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What is the point of train D618, originating at Shanghai Station at 2:06, sic!
Maybe they put it on to satisfy those complaining about no overnight D trains It arrives in time to connect with onwards G trains to Xi'an G2003 and Guangzhou G98, which the first, faster train of the morning D622 cannot.
And shows they can break their system of train "pairs" in the other direction with D632 departing Zhengzhou 03.30, D654 at 03.50 for no apparent reason.
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Old February 14th, 2014, 12:15 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Yes, but non-New Year situation applies 11 months per year.
Shanghai station is unusual in being an old station that does have significant high speed service - though mostly as far as Nanjing, both Nanjing and Nanjing South.

What is the point of train D618, originating at Shanghai Station at 2:06, sic!

How is Shanghai Station handling the New Year loads (lots of L trains!) and how convenient is Shanghai station at normal times?
I guess you have limited experience with those stations, sure Hongqiao looks big but in reality it's size is just big enough to handle the normal load, during Chunyun the station is completely overwhelmed by the load. They will have to come up with something otherwise the station won't be able to cope with Chunyun in a few years.

Shanghai Station is always packed, during normal times it's more crowded compare to Hongqiao for obvious reasons. Also it suffers from a much smaller lobby and a choke point caused by the escalators leading to the waiting rooms. It's also way less convenient for passenger drop off while Hongqiao has an airport style passenger drop off area that's directly outside the waiting room. And don't get me started on the horrid passage connecting the station and the metro.
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Old February 14th, 2014, 01:19 AM   #414
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crowd hongqiao...
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Old February 14th, 2014, 02:35 AM   #415
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Actually, it's not as bad as it looks like~ from distance it looks like a riot, but when you find yourself in the center it's not that bad. Just the effect of a zoom lens.
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Old February 14th, 2014, 04:04 AM   #416
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Actually, it's not as bad as it looks like~ from distance it looks like a riot, but when you find yourself in the center it's not that bad. Just the effect of a zoom lens.
Yes it is that bad. Like I said before, when I was there during Chunyun it felt worse than what the picture shows, which I believe was not taken at the peak of the Chunyun travel season. A large portion of the travelers are migrant workers who are not used to HSR travel, so they arrive at the station hours before their departure time, taking up valuable space. The line to get free bottled water is like 100m long so I didn't even bother. It was so crowded that it's difficult to walk.
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Old February 14th, 2014, 04:41 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
How is Shanghai Station handling the New Year loads (lots of L trains!) and how convenient is Shanghai station at normal times?
You can easily judge for yourself whether you think all the "space" is really necessary:
http://news.gaotie.cn/chunyun/2014-01-26/134446.html

Ridership on 2014.01.25 (new record):
Shanghai Station: 129,000
Shanghai South Station: 79,000
Hongqiao Station: 165,800
Total (3 stations): 365,000

Japan does not release these types of figures for single-day records, but you can compare to average daily ridership at Tōkyō Station:
Tōkaidō Shinkansen: ~180,000
Tōhoku Shinkansen: ~140,000
Total (1 station): 320,000

This doesn't include the regional / intercity limited expresses (Sōbu Line / Keiyō Line / Chūō Line), and is only average daily, but basically, we can say that Tōkyō Station handles, on a regular day, the equivalent of all three of the Shanghai stations during their peak.

The argument that the space is needed because of all the ridership during Chunyun isn’t entirely correct or justified… It has more to do with things like railway practice (security queues, ticketing queues, limited train frequency, controlled access to platforms, etc.) and ridership behavior (loitering in the station for hours, trying to take too many belongings with you). The first can change without huge infrastructure investments through improved scheduling and more sensible operating practices, the second will likely naturally change over time.

For a greenfield station built in the middle of nowhere, there's also nowhere to be other than at the station... There's nothing in the surrounding neighborhood of interest (if you can even access it easily), and most likely, connecting transit will be time-consuming and potentially infrequent (compared to a central-city location), so you will want to arrive early to make sure you don't miss your train.
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Old February 14th, 2014, 09:20 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by quashlo View Post

Ridership on 2014.01.25 (new record):
Shanghai Station: 129,000
Shanghai South Station: 79,000
Hongqiao Station: 165,800
Total (3 stations): 365,000

Japan does not release these types of figures for single-day records, but you can compare to average daily ridership at Tōkyō Station:
Tōkaidō Shinkansen: ~180,000
Tōhoku Shinkansen: ~140,000
Total (1 station): 320,000

This doesn't include the regional / intercity limited expresses (Sōbu Line / Keiyō Line / Chūō Line),
Precisely. Tokyo is also the terminus of Tokaido Main Line.
Shanghai South is entirely slow speed trains, right? And is Hongqiao a station of high speed trains alone?
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Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
For a greenfield station built in the middle of nowhere, there's also nowhere to be other than at the station... There's nothing in the surrounding neighborhood of interest (if you can even access it easily), and most likely, connecting transit will be time-consuming and potentially infrequent (compared to a central-city location), so you will want to arrive early to make sure you don't miss your train.
Shinkansen has greenfield stations, too. Shin-Yokohama, Shin-Osaka and Shin-Kobe.
In the 49 and 41 years since, have the surrounding of Shin-Yokohama, Shin-Osaka and Shin-Kobe been built up into city centres?
Does the difficulty of access and lack of neighbourhood encourage early arrival and loitering at Shin-Yokohama, Shin-Osaka and Shin-Kobe stations?
In the 40+ years, did Shinkansen´s choice to use central city stations serve Japan well?
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Old February 14th, 2014, 01:10 PM   #419
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Shanghai South is entirely slow speed trains, right? And is Hongqiao a station of high speed trains alone?
No it has a branch line to the Shanghai-Hangzhou HSR and use that to connect to the Shanghai-Kunming line, it has ~20 D trains per day. Also it's the terminus of Jinshan Railway which isn't HSR but the C trains use CRH2. Hongqiao is entirely HSR.
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Old February 14th, 2014, 08:10 PM   #420
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You can easily judge for yourself whether you think all the "space" is really necessary:
http://news.gaotie.cn/chunyun/2014-01-26/134446.html
See also the movie Last Train Home. Altho' mostly about the social conditions of migrant workers, no extras were hired for the scenes at Guangzhou station.
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