daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 14th, 2014, 08:11 PM   #421
quashlo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,835
Likes (Received): 3215

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Shinkansen has greenfield stations, too. Shin-Yokohama, Shin-Osaka and Shin-Kobe.
In the 49 and 41 years since, have the surrounding of Shin-Yokohama, Shin-Osaka and Shin-Kobe been built up into city centres?
Does the difficulty of access and lack of neighbourhood encourage early arrival and loitering at Shin-Yokohama, Shin-Osaka and Shin-Kobe stations?
In the 40+ years, did Shinkansen´s choice to use central city stations serve Japan well?
Well, I think you already sort of know the answers to your questions... This topic has been debated here before. The only thing I've done is provide some actual numbers for people to help make their own decision. But here is my response:

Of the three stations, only Shin-Yokohama is a true "greenfield" station. Shin-Kōbe is tucked into the base of the mountains that surround Kōbe's downtown... It's one stop away on the subway from the legacy terminal (Sannomiya), and you can actually walk it in 15 minutes (although it would be uphill to get to Shin-Kōbe). The case is less clear-cut for Shin-Ōsaka, since it's a bit further away from the legacy terminal at Ōsaka, but still only one stop away on the legacy mainline.

Only Shin-Yokohama is really comparable to all the greenfield stations you see on the Beijing‒Shanghai line, like Guangzhou South, Nanjing South, Tianjin South, Suzhou North, etc. However, it's still far easier to get to Shin-Yokohama (two connecting urban rail lines, plus a third on the way) than it is to the counterparts on the Beijing‒Shanghai line. I think this, plus some highly concerted efforts to channel land use development to Shin-Yokohama (including high-profile venues like Nissan Stadium and Yokohama Arena), have made it mildly successful.

But in Yokohama's case, there really wasn't much land to work with at Yokohama Station, and the legacy mainline corridor was densely built-up... I would say the case is different for the Beijing‒Shanghai line, where I think there was definitely a viable option to serve many of the legacy stations without a significant loss in time except on the very long-distance journeys, particularly considering time lost in getting to and from the greenfield stations.
__________________
San Francisco
Japan 2013; Japan 2011
: Tōkyō I, II, III (Kamakura), IV (Yokohama), V; Ōsaka I (+Kyōto +Kōbe), II (Kyōto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikkō
quashlo no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 14th, 2014, 08:35 PM   #422
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post

Of the three stations, only Shin-Yokohama is a true "greenfield" station. Shin-Kōbe is tucked into the base of the mountains that surround Kōbe's downtown... It's one stop away on the subway from the legacy terminal (Sannomiya), and you can actually walk it in 15 minutes (although it would be uphill to get to Shin-Kōbe).
And off-centre.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
The case is less clear-cut for Shin-Ōsaka, since it's a bit further away from the legacy terminal at Ōsaka, but still only one stop away on the legacy mainline.
And 700 m from Higashi-Yodogawa station... kept open thanks to protests of locals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Only Shin-Yokohama is really comparable to all the greenfield stations you see on the Beijing‒Shanghai line, like Guangzhou South, Nanjing South, Tianjin South, Suzhou North, etc. However, it's still far easier to get to Shin-Yokohama (two connecting urban rail lines, plus a third on the way)
One of which, Yokohama line, was original. Shin-Yokohama was 1300 m from Kikuna (a junction as well) and 1700 m from Kozukue Station.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
than it is to the counterparts on the Beijing‒Shanghai line. I think this, plus some highly concerted efforts to channel land use development to Shin-Yokohama (including high-profile venues like Nissan Stadium and Yokohama Arena), have made it mildly successful.
So concerted efforts were needed? Central city did not spring up spontaneously because Shinkansen was there?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 05:31 AM   #423
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
You can easily judge for yourself whether you think all the "space" is really necessary:
http://news.gaotie.cn/chunyun/2014-01-26/134446.html

Ridership on 2014.01.25 (new record):
Shanghai Station: 129,000
Shanghai South Station: 79,000
Hongqiao Station: 165,800
Total (3 stations): 365,000

Japan does not release these types of figures for single-day records, but you can compare to average daily ridership at Tōkyō Station:
Tōkaidō Shinkansen: ~180,000
Tōhoku Shinkansen: ~140,000
Total (1 station): 320,000

This doesn't include the regional / intercity limited expresses (Sōbu Line / Keiyō Line / Chūō Line), and is only average daily, but basically, we can say that Tōkyō Station handles, on a regular day, the equivalent of all three of the Shanghai stations during their peak.

The argument that the space is needed because of all the ridership during Chunyun isn’t entirely correct or justified… It has more to do with things like railway practice (security queues, ticketing queues, limited train frequency, controlled access to platforms, etc.) and ridership behavior (loitering in the station for hours, trying to take too many belongings with you). The first can change without huge infrastructure investments through improved scheduling and more sensible operating practices, the second will likely naturally change over time.

For a greenfield station built in the middle of nowhere, there's also nowhere to be other than at the station... There's nothing in the surrounding neighborhood of interest (if you can even access it easily), and most likely, connecting transit will be time-consuming and potentially infrequent (compared to a central-city location), so you will want to arrive early to make sure you don't miss your train.
Yes, the space is necessary. Also, locations of the train stations are perfectly fine, too.
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 06:17 AM   #424
quashlo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,835
Likes (Received): 3215

Wonderful "frog in a well" response.

Anyways, I wasn't trying to convince you (would be a fruitless endeavour, no doubt). I'm only shedding some light on some perfectly legitimate questions that have consistently been raised. If you don't like my post, you can always close your eyes and scroll past it... But if you want to respond, then at least put a little more substance and thought into it.
__________________
San Francisco
Japan 2013; Japan 2011
: Tōkyō I, II, III (Kamakura), IV (Yokohama), V; Ōsaka I (+Kyōto +Kōbe), II (Kyōto), III (Nara); Hiroshima; Fukuoka; Nagasaki; Kita-Kyushu + Shimonoseki; Nikkō
quashlo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 07:22 AM   #425
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Wonderful "frog in a well" response.

Anyways, I wasn't trying to convince you (would be a fruitless endeavour, no doubt). I'm only shedding some light on some perfectly legitimate questions that have consistently been raised. If you don't like my post, you can always close your eyes and scroll past it... But if you want to respond, then at least put a little more substance and thought into it.
lol. Just read my previous post.

You are the one who is turning a blind eye on what China is trying to achieve, what China's demographic changes will bring in the future, rate of Chinese urbanization and also assuming people prefer metro station look-alike train stations.
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 02:22 PM   #426
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
This doesn't include the regional / intercity limited expresses (Sōbu Line / Keiyō Line / Chūō Line), and is only average daily, but basically, we can say that Tōkyō Station handles, on a regular day, the equivalent of all three of the Shanghai stations during their peak.

The argument that the space is needed because of all the ridership during Chunyun isn’t entirely correct or justified… It has more to do with things like railway practice (security queues, ticketing queues, limited train frequency, controlled access to platforms, etc.) and ridership behavior (loitering in the station for hours, trying to take too many belongings with you). The first can change without huge infrastructure investments through improved scheduling and more sensible operating practices, the second will likely naturally change over time.

For a greenfield station built in the middle of nowhere, there's also nowhere to be other than at the station... There's nothing in the surrounding neighborhood of interest (if you can even access it easily), and most likely, connecting transit will be time-consuming and potentially infrequent (compared to a central-city location), so you will want to arrive early to make sure you don't miss your train.
During Chunyun I have never experienced lines at the security queues, it normally takes about two minutes from the door to the waiting hall, ticketing is mostly through automated gates so no queue there neither. I think the main issue is with rider behavior, and practices such as limited access to the platform is a direct result of such behavior. This is unlikely to change anytime soon as it did not change a bit in the last seven years. Sure the stations are farther from downtown but they are hardly in the middle of nowhere, stations such as Hongqiao and Nanjing South are very close to hard residential areas and are served by multiple metro, bus, and taxi services located inside the station. Sure Shanghai Station is much closer to central city but it's just way too crowded to travel with a reasonable level of comfort, I'd much rather take the extra 20 minute of metro ride to get to Hongqiao. The mix of HSR and conventional train is a huge issue in those legacy stations because passengers behave differently, Nanjing Station is currently undergoing a project to separate the passenger flow by building a separate waiting hall for people traveling on HSR, but that was years in the making and extremely expensive due to land acquisition cost. The reality is simply that there is no way to build stations meeting Chinese passenger demand in the city central as the cost will be prohibitively high, the greenfield stations now are as good as they can possibly get.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2014, 04:30 PM   #427
skyridgeline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,525
Likes (Received): 1217

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Well, I think you already sort of know the answers to your questions... This topic has been debated here before. The only thing I've done is provide some actual numbers for people to help make their own decison. But here is my response:...
Within 200km of Tokyo center is just high speed commuting .
skyridgeline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2014, 11:22 AM   #428
luhai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 647
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
Within 200km of Tokyo center is just high speed commuting .
Indeed, the closest analog to Japanese Rail system is actually the Chinese intercity C trains (Use of metro cards, frequent trains, passenger with no luggage, no wait rooms, access to platforms etc), rather than the regular long haul trains we typically discuss here. However, it does points to the need to separate station experience for the commuters/businessmen(typical Japanese passenger) and migrants/long haul visitors (typical Chinese passenger). The current HSR system is getting flak from both sides, crowded stations for the commuter and lack of luggage space from the migrant.
__________________

particlez liked this post

Last edited by luhai; February 16th, 2014 at 11:29 AM.
luhai no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2014, 11:30 AM   #429
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
Within 200km of Tokyo center is just high speed commuting .
Yes, but Nozomis are nonstop between Shin-Yokohama (25 km from Tokyo) and Nagoya (342 km from Tokyo).

How many passengers are picked up or dropped off at Shanghai West Station, and how good is that station to catch trains?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 03:17 AM   #430
big-dog
Registered User
 
big-dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,080
Likes (Received): 6840

Shanghai West is a small station only serving Shanghai-Nanjing HSR route. It's located in downtown and easy to access (metro Line 11 connects it too).







--baidu
big-dog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 04:00 AM   #431
luhai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 647
Likes (Received): 423

Perhaps he meant the relatively close distance between west and the main station. That station actually was closed in 2006 and turned into a cargo station before been converted back to passenger service recently. Probably cause the Shanghai station overflowed. West Station seems to be mainly serving intercity C trains with very few G train and conventional train service.

Last edited by luhai; February 17th, 2014 at 04:06 AM.
luhai no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 10:02 AM   #432
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
Perhaps he meant the relatively close distance between west and the main station. That station actually was closed in 2006 and turned into a cargo station before been converted back to passenger service recently. Probably cause the Shanghai station overflowed. West Station seems to be mainly serving intercity C trains with very few G train and conventional train service.
Where do C trains go from Shanghai West?

Shinagawa Station is 6,8 km from Tokyo, and all Tokaido Shinkansen trains stop at both. Omiya Station is 3,6 km from Tokyo, and lots of trains stop at both.
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 02:26 PM   #433
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

It's more like Chinese HSR stations are built with a domestic airport mentality than anything else. There are the security queues, the distance out of the city, huge waiting areas - development in the coming years around the stations is expected, but the moving of a CBD of a city of 15 million people several tens of kilometres away from its current location isn't going to happen. Much of the city-centre to city-centre benefit of HSR is lost in this scenario. It's still far more reliable than flying in China, and can handle many many more passengers - it certainly could have been planned better though.
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #434
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,077
Likes (Received): 8832

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Where do C trains go from Shanghai West?

Shinagawa Station is 6,8 km from Tokyo, and all Tokaido Shinkansen trains stop at both. Omiya Station is 3,6 km from Tokyo, and lots of trains stop at both.
Omiya is 31.3km from Tokyo. Ueno is 3.6km and that's where a number of trains on the Tohoku Shinkansen stop.

I agree with Sopomon, it is better to have the stations closer to the centre, however, I can see that many HSR stations in China do indeed have plenty of development around them - particularly in Beijing and Shanghai. Given the metro connections to these stations I still think they are effective enough to be competitive.
Svartmetall está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #435
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Omiya is 31.3km from Tokyo. Ueno is 3.6km and that's where a number of trains on the Tohoku Shinkansen stop.
Sorry - mixed up the station names.
My point is that on both Tokaido and Tohoku Shinkansens, large numbers of passengers are picked up and dropped off in the suburban stations of Shinagawa and Ueno. Actually all trains stop at Shinagawa. So Shinkansen trains use both central-city and suburban station.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
I agree with Sopomon, it is better to have the stations closer to the centre, however, I can see that many HSR stations in China do indeed have plenty of development around them - particularly in Beijing and Shanghai. Given the metro connections to these stations I still think they are effective enough to be competitive.
Does Stockholm Södra compete effectively with Stockholm Central?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #436
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,077
Likes (Received): 8832

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Sorry - mixed up the station names.
My point is that on both Tokaido and Tohoku Shinkansens, large numbers of passengers are picked up and dropped off in the suburban stations of Shinagawa and Ueno. Actually all trains stop at Shinagawa. So Shinkansen trains use both central-city and suburban station.
We can take this discussion to another thread rather than clog the Chinese Stations thread. How about creating a thread about intracity high speed rail and HSR network design. Would be quite an interesting topic I'm sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Does Stockholm Södra compete effectively with Stockholm Central?
They're different and long distance trains are less important at Södra (plus Södra is a dank hole of a station compared to Centralstation). Not only that, but Centralstation is the hub for the tunnelbana with all lines passing through there, whereas only the pendeltåg stops at Södra.
Svartmetall está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2014, 11:08 PM   #437
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

So, how are the shapes of the major Chinese HSR network nodes - like Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen? Where were the old railway lines and old railway stations, where were the new HSR lines and stations built, and where should the new lines and stations have been built instead?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2014, 01:26 AM   #438
hmmwv
Registered User
 
hmmwv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,391
Likes (Received): 420

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post
It's more like Chinese HSR stations are built with a domestic airport mentality than anything else. There are the security queues, the distance out of the city, huge waiting areas - development in the coming years around the stations is expected, but the moving of a CBD of a city of 15 million people several tens of kilometres away from its current location isn't going to happen. Much of the city-centre to city-centre benefit of HSR is lost in this scenario. It's still far more reliable than flying in China, and can handle many many more passengers - it certainly could have been planned better though.
Well to be fair the new stations are not really considered "out of the city." They are just outside the traditional city central, but not that far out. For example, Nanjing South is only 7km from the very core of the city, and only a couple of kilometers from one of the city's busiest shopping/tourist area. Hongqiao Station is just over 10km from Xujiahui. Beijing South is less than 5km from Tiananmen Square.

Keep in mind all those cities also have the old station with HSR service that are located right at the center of the city. For example the busy Shanghai-Nanjing ICL are linked by Nanjing Station and Shanghai Station. What I'd like to see happen, though, is that moving conventional / long haul train to newer greenfield stations, and dedicate the downtown stations to HSR service. This way you get a more efficient operation at the downtown area which is convenient for the daily commuters, and the migrant workers / long distance travelers can also enjoy a much larger waiting room, especially considering many of them can't afford to live in the city core anyway, so the outskirt stations may be closer for them.
__________________
The building under construction next to Shanghai Tower is Oriental Financial Center. The "plot" next to Jinmao is reserved green belt and no skyscraper will be built there.
hmmwv no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #439
luhai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 647
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Where do C trains go from Shanghai West?
Shanghai Station and eventually Nanjing. Though they are listed as 4 digit G trains rather than C train (as in the case of Beijing Tianjin Intercity). Right now there are only very few trains that stops at Shanghai West. (way below it's capacity, compared to 62 pairs that run the Beijing-Tianjin Intercity) I'm not familiar enough with Shanghai to know their eventual plans, but I would imagine probably small and medium sized city in the Yangtze river delta not currently served by HSR. Some of them probably will turn into bedroom communities, factory towns or tourism/leisure destinations for Shanghai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
So, how are the shapes of the major Chinese HSR network nodes - like Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen? Where were the old railway lines and old railway stations, where were the new HSR lines and stations built, and where should the new lines and stations have been built instead?
I don't know about Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, however for my hometown of Changsha, Hunan (which I have an interest in digging through gaoloumi and other chinese forums), I do have some idea for their plans up to 2030. The plan is to route HSR regular G trains to the South Station, which is a new hub (Tianxin District) of the city linking the industrial city of Zhuzhou. While have the intercity HSR (C trains of 4 digit G train, whatever they end up naming them) run through a New train station in the new development area as well as the old train station right smack in the city centre. Another station will be constructed to route conventional trains (K, Number only) there. All these stations will be connected via a Metro network. So the old central station and new district will only run D (200-250 kmh), T (140-160 kmh) and intercity HSR (spokes to Areas of the province with no HSR. See map), the south station will run HSR (>300 kmh) Mainline (connection provincial hubs like Changsha to other provincial hubs (Wuhan, Zhengzhou, Kunming etc) and major coastal cities(Guangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai etc), while a new west station will run the slow trains (goes to small towns and villages. Might a fright station as well). At least this is the plan so far for 2030, things will change of course.

Metro and station planning for Changha, the orange block are the three train stations. As you can see, even though they are near the edge of the city, it's only 5 km (Changsha South, Main Line HSR) and 10km (Changsha West, planned slow train only station) away from city center. New district station is still TBD, probably depende on success or fail of Meixi lake and Wangcheng (where Sky City planned to be) development projects.


The Eventual Intercity HSR Network in Hunan Province. Line connecting Changsha, Xiangtan and Zhuzhou is U/C, the line going to Yueyang, Liuyang is undergoing design and planning, the line going to Yiyang, Changde, Loudi, Hengyang is undergoing preliminary study.

Last edited by luhai; February 18th, 2014 at 10:57 AM.
luhai no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2014, 11:19 AM   #440
chornedsnorkack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,980
Likes (Received): 388

Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
I don't know about Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, however for my hometown of Changsha, Hunan (which I have an interest in digging through gaoloumi and other chinese forums), I do have some idea for their plans up to 2030.
Thanks a lot!
Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
The plan is to route HSR regular G trains to the South Station, which is a new hub (Tianxin District) of the city linking the industrial city of Zhuzhou. While have the intercity HSR (C trains of 4 digit G train, whatever they end up naming them) run through a New train station in the new development area as well as the old train station right smack in the city centre. Another station will be constructed to route conventional trains (K, Number only) there. All these stations will be connected via a Metro network. So the old central station and new district will only run D (200-250 kmh), T (140-160 kmh) and intercity HSR (spokes to Areas of the province with no HSR. See map),
But that´s a problem. See below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai View Post
the south station will run HSR (>300 kmh) Mainline (connection provincial hubs like Changsha to other provincial hubs (Wuhan, Zhengzhou, Kunming etc) and major coastal cities(Guangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai etc), while a new west station will run the slow trains (goes to small towns and villages. Might a fright station as well). At least this is the plan so far for 2030, things will change of course.

The Eventual Intercity HSR Network in Hunan Province. Line connecting Changsha, Xiangtan and Zhuzhou is U/C, the line going to Yueyang, Liuyang is undergoing design and planning, the line going to Yiyang, Changde, Loudi, Hengyang is undergoing preliminary study.
But you said intercity network is supposed to go to places where HSR does not?

Zhuzhou already IS on HSR (the Changsha-Guangzhou one), Yueyang likewise (the Changsha-Wuhan one) and so is Hengyang (Changsha-Guangzhou one again).

If a HSR Changsha-Zhuzhou is under construction, how many stations shall it have between Changsha and Zhuzhou (52 km)? And what shall be the distance from Changsha "terminus" to nearest station in Changsha?
chornedsnorkack no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium