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Old December 21st, 2014, 11:42 AM   #2161
isaidso
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And Toronto. Both cities prove that you can have one of the best skylines in the world despite no super tall. That said, by 2025 I think a skyline will need buildings that tall to make the cut. Sub-300m in 2025 won't be enough.

Whether I'll still put Toronto in my top 10 in 2025 will likely come down to whether the city builds super talls, and how many of them. In every other area Toronto is very strong. Same goes for Singapore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
Rather than 953 feet, I don't know why they just don't go ahead and take it above 300 meters and give us another supertall.
Sounds like a classic case of Toronto-itis. Unfortunately, its a condition that takes decades to cure and even then there's no guarantee. We got to 298m in 1975 and we're still waiting to go over the 300m barrier despite the monumental building boom.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 11:46 AM   #2162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickellresidence View Post
The 2015 World Almanac is wrong in that term.... The 3rd with the most construction in tall buildings in north america should be Mexico City

Miami has 13 U/C +150m

Mexico City has 18 U/C +150m 4 of them are +200m and one supertall in PREP (not counted until it reaches above ground level)
It might have a lot to do with when the data was compiled. What was true 6 months ago might not be true today. The data was likely accurate on the day it was counted. QuantumX, does the list state what month the data was taken?
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Old December 21st, 2014, 12:53 PM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
I guess Shenzhenwill be no 1 in the future.
The chances are slim considering the height restriction and the economy which is cooling down. Shenzhen's per capita is already over $25000 in PPP, it will stop building once it becomes fully mature like Shanghai.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 05:27 PM   #2164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickellresidence View Post
The 2015 World Almanac is wrong in that term.... The 3rd with the most construction in tall buildings in north america should be Mexico City

Miami has 13 U/C +150m

Mexico City has 18 U/C +150m 4 of them are +200m and one supertall in PREP (not counted until it reaches above ground level)
Then, I guess this source is wrong as well. Maybe you can help keep them updated. There is a tab for submitting new data. We help keep them updated in the Miami forum with photos and links to websites. Maybe you can do that as well.

http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/inte...t=Show+Results

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyarch21 View Post
Quantum, you seem to be the expert on miami; where do you think the city will be in 10 years? From what ive been reading on Miami development, Ive taken that its very hard to get a building to be a supertall in Miami because of the flight paths that would be disturbed. Don't take this the wrong way, im not trying to bash Miami or anything. Im just curious. Do you think Miami can become a great skyline with buildings limited to 1000 feet?
Well, being the moderator of the Miami forum, I sort of have to be the expert there. If we can get enough buildings that actually do reach 1,000 feet or 305 meters, I think we can have a great skyline, but city planners here lack vision. They just don't understand things like that. I'm just hoping we can get into the top 20 again, which is where we were at the end of the last decade. As far as where the city will be in 10 years, we'll just have to wait and see what comes out in the wash.

We've had 5 supertalls planned thus far. We'll probably get two. Miami Central planned at 1,120 feet definitely won't be built to that height in the location that it's in. We'll be lucky to get 900 feet. One Brickell CityCentre which was originally planned at 1,102 feet has already been chopped down. Swire Properties is trying for 1,049 feet. We might get 1,010 feet. One Bayfront Plaza has already been approved 1,010 feet and it's roughly the same distance from the airport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingWing View Post
Miami shares the same fate as Singapore, without a supertall.

However a supertall doesnt guarantee best skyline


It all depends on the quality, density and planning of the skyline
We certainly do share the same fate. When members of the Miami forum lament about our height restrictions, I always tell them "Look at Singapore." We'll have the density for sure, but the quality remains to be seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
It might have a lot to do with when the data was compiled. What was true 6 months ago might not be true today. The data was likely accurate on the day it was counted. QuantumX, does the list state what month the data was taken?
I don't see where it says when the data was compiled, but the World Almanac has a cutoff of October. I think we also share the same fate as Toronto - city planners here just don't know what makes a great skyline. It is the few that had the vision that gave us the skyline that we have today like Mayor Manny Diaz and the city commissioner I quote in my signature line, Johnny Winton.

BTW, if I had made a World Almanac list for Toronto the way I did for Miami, it would have extended as long as the length of my signature line with all my photo thread links.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 06:32 PM   #2165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faisal Shourov View Post
The chances are slim considering the height restriction and the economy which is cooling down. Shenzhen's per capita is already over $25000 in PPP, it will stop building once it becomes fully mature like Shanghai.
Shanghai is definitely cooling down on the supertall front. Maybe Shenzhen can start buildings residential supertalls, same as New York. The demand should be there, maybe in ~ 10 years.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 06:55 PM   #2166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
Then, I guess this source is wrong as well. Maybe you can help keep them updated. There is a tab for submitting new data. We help keep them updated in the Miami forum with photos and links to website. Maybe you can do that as well. http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/inte...t=Show+Results
Yeah this page is missing a lot of buildings or projects of mexico city not a good source for mexico city I dont use websites as source because they never have the correct count, I make my own list with the help of mexico city forum and the project/construction updates
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Old December 21st, 2014, 07:10 PM   #2167
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Shenzhen's development is faster than ever in all areas. Multiple supertalls have just started (1 Shenzhen Bay, Shum Yip Upperhills 389m, CITIC Shenwan, OCT Tower, Chuntian Tower, at least 3 supertalls in Qianhai) and there's dozens of 200m+ and 150m+ under development too all throughout the city. Shenzhen is one of the most advanced and forward-thinking cities in China and the world, and is the epicenter of the new Chinese high-tech economy. I think what is happening now is just the beginning. Shenzhen will be home to many world-famous technology companies in the next few decades, and Shenzhen will become a global destination aspired to by millions, like Silicon Valley is now. We are witnessing the birth of something truly new and truly different with the new Shenzhen.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 07:16 PM   #2168
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OTOH, Tianjin's development definitely is slowing. I'm really disappointed with the speed of the Binhai CBD and there are only a few projects left in the development pipeline for downtown. Still, the results since 2010 have been extremely impressive and development hasn't totally stopped by any means. But aspirations to enter the world top 10 might have to end quietly now.
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Old December 21st, 2014, 07:39 PM   #2169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickellresidence View Post
Yeah this page is missing a lot of buildings or projects of mexico city not a good source for mexico city I dont use websites as source because they never have the correct count, I make my own list with the help of mexico city forum and the project/construction updates
So we just have to believe whatever you say? Okay. Maybe you missed part of what I was saying. Myself and another member of the Miami forum actually do work on keeping the Skyscraper Center section of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat updated by submitting photos and links to the websites of these projects to show that they are actually real projects. I'm saying you can do this just as we do in the Miami forum if you don't like what the Mexico City page looks like on that website.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:09 AM   #2170
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I don't think Miami can move their airport but they can move their skyline in a direction away from the airport.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:20 AM   #2171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itom 987 View Post
I don't think Miami can move their airport but they can move their skyline in a direction away from the airport.
For years, I've been saying it would be a good idea to establish another business district farther north out of the direction of the flight paths of MIA. Los Angeles has Century City. Houston has its Galleria district. We could do the same, but when you have city planners with no vision, what can you do?
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 11:49 AM   #2172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Shenzhen's development is faster than ever in all areas. Multiple supertalls have just started (1 Shenzhen Bay, Shum Yip Upperhills 389m, CITIC Shenwan, OCT Tower, Chuntian Tower, at least 3 supertalls in Qianhai) and there's dozens of 200m+ and 150m+ under development too all throughout the city. Shenzhen is one of the most advanced and forward-thinking cities in China and the world, and is the epicenter of the new Chinese high-tech economy. I think what is happening now is just the beginning. Shenzhen will be home to many world-famous technology companies in the next few decades, and Shenzhen will become a global destination aspired to by millions, like Silicon Valley is now. We are witnessing the birth of something truly new and truly different with the new Shenzhen.
It's really unfortunate that a vibrant megacity like Shenzhen is so little known outside East Asia. Shanghai and Beijing are popular all over the globe. I will be honest, I never heard Shenzhen's name before joining SSC. I'm truly glad that I learnt about this city because of this amazing website

Shenzhen, Guangzhou etc cities really need to make their cities famous in global context. Many people who don't know about Chinese cities have this preconceived idea that Chinese cities are poor and undeveloped. It's about time for these cities to self-promote their presence and build an image
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 03:18 PM   #2173
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It takes a long time for people's perceptions and knowledge to catch up to reality especially when there's drastic change over a short period of time. Shenzhen sits on what was largely undeveloped land just 30 years ago so it's not a surprise that its an enigma outside the region. Couple that with a stubborn (sometimes hostile) refusal to accept the new kid on the block by some and you get the present situation.
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 03:29 PM   #2174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faisal Shourov View Post
It's really unfortunate that a vibrant megacity like Shenzhen is so little known outside East Asia. Shanghai and Beijing are popular all over the globe. I will be honest, I never heard Shenzhen's name before joining SSC. I'm truly glad that I learnt about this city because of this amazing website

Shenzhen, Guangzhou etc cities really need to make their cities famous in global context. Many people who don't know about Chinese cities have this preconceived idea that Chinese cities are poor and undeveloped. It's about time for these cities to self-promote their presence and build an image


I just came back from shenzhen last month. I was really surprised by the transformation of the city. I went there before 8-9 years ago and I have to salute them for the vast improvement in the infrastructure. Shenzhen basically its like a satellite town of HK. Anyone who never heard of shenzhen before, I recommend them to pay a visit there
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Old December 22nd, 2014, 05:20 PM   #2175
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Isn't Shenzhen China's attempt to build a 21st century metropolis from scratch that will supplant Hong Kong eventually? Hong Kong's future is very cloudy. Much to the dismay of Hong Kongers, I think it will become the satellite city of Shenzhen. There's a lot of politics going on and China carries a heavy stick.
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Old December 23rd, 2014, 09:57 PM   #2176
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Paris 2025 :



Hermitage Plaza-2020 (right) : 320m
Tour Phare-2020(middle) : 297m
Hekla-2019(left) : 230m
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Old December 24th, 2014, 01:52 AM   #2177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faisal Shourov View Post
The chances are slim considering the height restriction and the economy which is cooling down. Shenzhen's per capita is already over $25000 in PPP, it will stop building once it becomes fully mature like Shanghai.
When everybody talks about engines for growth Shenzhen has the perfect storm. Take for example (chosen not for any particular strength or weakness just because I'm most familiar with it.) Toronto:

strong pull factors for international immigration
policy for intensification
low interest rates (not sure if that is applicable to Shenzhen)
demographic shift to urban living

Which are all valid phenomenon happening in Toronto but take that x10, add a San Francisco Tech Boom and sprinkle Hong Kong demand and geographic constraints and you get the Shenzhen picture:
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Old December 25th, 2014, 07:56 AM   #2178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
When everybody talks about engines for growth Shenzhen has the perfect storm. Take for example (chosen not for any particular strength or weakness just because I'm most familiar with it.) Toronto:

strong pull factors for international immigration
policy for intensification
low interest rates (not sure if that is applicable to Shenzhen)
demographic shift to urban living

Which are all valid phenomenon happening in Toronto but take that x10, add a San Francisco Tech Boom and sprinkle Hong Kong demand and geographic constraints and you get the Shenzhen picture:
That's very much on point. People tend to look at population and wealth alone to ascertain where a city is heading. It's more useful to analyze all the underlying conditions fostering the momentum. Cities like Toronto, Melbourne, Sao Paulo, Mexico City, Mumbai, Shenzhen, etc. will see tremendous growth for a long long time because they aren't undergoing normal building booms. They're cities transforming.

And agree that Shenzhen is in some ways a Toronto on steroids. Many of the factors underpinning the growth are the same, but they're magnified in Shenzhen's case. China has 1.4 billion people just for starters.
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Old December 25th, 2014, 08:01 AM   #2179
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A Toronto skyscraper enthusiast has been hard at work for a while to give us Torontonians a 2014 Christmas present. Here below is a depiction of what the downtown Toronto skyline will look like if all proposals currently on the table get built.

Toronto 2020?


Courtesy of koops65
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Old December 25th, 2014, 04:53 PM   #2180
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^ Pretty packed i.e. dense if you ask me. It really is time some nice supertalls.
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