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Old January 28th, 2016, 12:05 AM   #2781
KavirajG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stop that View Post
"Futuristic".. maybe you meant distopian, to which I agree. Towers that look like they they were designed from the pages of 1950s American comics, i wouldn't exactly call futuristic. They're more 'retro' to my eyes. A mid century american vision of what the 'future' could look like, adopted by Asia 60 years later.
Of course there are exceptions, shanghai tower, Jao ming, Petronas are amazing, hong kong has the best and most modern designed office towers in asia, they're more like developed world skyscrapers and will be what most asian cities look like in a few decades
I don't think I would call Shanghai-Pudong, Singapore, Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar 'retro' even if, as you put it, someone might have imagined this type of urban development in 1950/60s comics.
I guess what he meant by 'futuristic' is that the skyline is a complete set of modern skyscrapers that really stand out with respect to shape and design and not a mish-mash of old grey facade buildings with some glossy towers dropped in between.

But then again, we have to put things in context here. Some cities like NYC already had a major skyline by the 1930s whereas others went on a building spree just 20-30 years back at a time when most of their citizens were still trying to figure out how to use an elevator.
Throwing in disproportionate comparison between cities of different eras would be just out of place.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 01:00 AM   #2782
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"Mish mash of old grey buildings" seriously. Different tastes I suppose. The words parody, old money/new money come to mind but even shanghai is becoming a more developed/refined skyline now, similar to hong kong
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Old January 28th, 2016, 02:04 AM   #2783
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Singapore looks fascinating ! ♥
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Old January 28th, 2016, 02:10 AM   #2784
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Quote:
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It seems unreachable, doesn't it? That said, no city stays #1 forever. New York will remain at or near the top for a very long time but cities can catch it by slowly closing the gap each passing decade.

I won't see Toronto rival the New York skyline in my life time but that's not to say that it can't be done. Rome wasn't built in one day... so they say.
The problem is closing the gap. How many cities are closing the gap with a skyline currently constructing 9 supertalls and 25 buildings over 200m? I can only think of maybe Dubai and Shenzhen, and neither of those will have the layered history that makes New York special. Imo New York is putting space between itself and its rivals.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 05:46 PM   #2785
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The problem is closing the gap. How many cities are closing the gap with a skyline currently constructing 9 supertalls and 25 buildings over 200m?
Agree. Not only one must keep pace with the target city, which is often much larger, but one must build more. For Toronto to build as much as New York is a feat unto itself.

Like I mentioned in another post, I won't see Toronto close the gap in my life time. That's not to say it can't be done. In 1980 if someone had said that KL would have a better skyline than Chicago by 2025 people would have laughed at them. Today it seems quite plausible and many have it neck and neck (or ahead of Chicago) in the 'Best Skyline in 2025' thread.

And this is from a developing nation of 30 million people.

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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Imo New York is putting space between itself and its rivals.
Agree with that as well. New York is increasing its lead right now. However, it's also true that if there's one constant in the world it's change. Nothing stays the same forever. We're moving towards a polycentric world from one where just a handful of cities dominated. The evidence is all around.

New York has managed to be the world's dominant city (Londoners will no doubt disagree) for a good 80+ years... and by a considerable margin. Those days are over. 50 years from now there will be 20-30 global cities on pretty much an even keel. If a dominant world city does emerge, it will almost certainly be an Asian one.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 06:41 PM   #2786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Agree. Not only one must keep pace with the target city, which is often much larger, but one must build more. For Toronto to build as much as New York is a feat unto itself.

Like I mentioned in another post, I won't see Toronto close the gap in my life time. That's not to say it can't be done. In 1980 if someone had said that KL would have a better skyline than Chicago by 2025 people would have laughed at them. Today it seems quite plausible and many have it neck and neck (or ahead of Chicago) in the 'Best Skyline in 2025' thread.
I know it's my opinion and I mean no offense but I have to say there is no way in hell KL has a better skyline than Chicago. I wouldn't even put it in the top 20 whereas Chicago breezes into the top 5!
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Old January 28th, 2016, 08:08 PM   #2787
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Originally Posted by Greedy Sheedy View Post
I know it's my opinion and I mean no offense but I have to say there is no way in hell KL has a better skyline than Chicago. I wouldn't even put it in the top 20 whereas Chicago breezes into the top 5!
Maybe not now but by 2025, it could well be. Irrespective of what are your characteristics for a better skyline, if you compare both, it's a close contest.

Chicago in the Top 5 is tough...NYC, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Shenzhen...these 4 spots are almost guaranteed...
For 5th place, Chicago will have to fight against other Chinese cities like Guangzhou, Chongqing, South East Asian cities, Mumbai, the big names from the Middle East and even its continental counterpart; Toronto.

Herculean task.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 10:27 PM   #2788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KavirajG View Post
Maybe not now but by 2025, it could well be. Irrespective of what are your characteristics for a better skyline, if you compare both, it's a close contest.

Chicago in the Top 5 is tough...NYC, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Shenzhen...these 4 spots are almost guaranteed...
For 5th place, Chicago will have to fight against other Chinese cities like Guangzhou, Chongqing, South East Asian cities, Mumbai, the big names from the Middle East and even its continental counterpart; Toronto.

Herculean task.
Not really. None of those skylines you listed, not even T
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Old January 28th, 2016, 10:27 PM   #2789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KavirajG View Post
Maybe not now but by 2025, it could well be. Irrespective of what are your characteristics for a better skyline, if you compare both, it's a close contest.

Chicago in the Top 5 is tough...NYC, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Shenzhen...these 4 spots are almost guaranteed...
For 5th place, Chicago will have to fight against other Chinese cities like Guangzhou, Chongqing, South East Asian cities, Mumbai, the big names from the Middle East and even its continental counterpart; Toronto.

Herculean task.
Not really. None of those skylines you listed, not even Toronto, has the architectural diversity of the Chicago skyline.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 10:53 PM   #2790
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Not really. None of those skylines you listed, not even Toronto, has the architectural diversity of the Chicago skyline.
Sincerely, I don't think diversity is the first and foremost criteria most people look for when determining what's the best skyline.

And if you seriously think the others I mentioned lack diversity, I rest my case.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 11:34 PM   #2791
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I think Chicago's skyline is currently superior to many other cities with up and coming skylines. Even if by 2025 Chicago does not have any new supertalls, its architectural diversity and skyscraper heritage will still give a top 5 in the world spot. You have to be more than a skyscraper fan to really admire the skyline of Chicago.... you have to be an architecture fan. That is Chicago's strength. And when you see the Chicago skyline in person, there is no way you would think it does not deserve a top 5 spot.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 12:17 AM   #2792
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Chicago has a great skyline, no doubt and will remain an archetype of a skyscraper city for long, however there's too much going on to find it a spot in the Top 5. But then again, that's me.

Now with the addition of other variables like architectural diversity and heritage to quantity, quality and maybe 'futuristic bearing', we have an even longer list of cities to take into account but the race also get a bit more skewed at the same time!
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Old January 29th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #2793
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Brooklyn, NYC, USA


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Brooklyn’s skyline is being transformed as developers add tens of thousands of new rental and condominium apartments to the borough. While Brooklyn has historically been known for its single-family houses, there is a crush of buildings with 20 or more units under construction, many of them rising 10 or more stories and dramatically changing the built environment.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 07:32 PM   #2794
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Originally Posted by Greedy Sheedy View Post
I know it's my opinion and I mean no offense but I have to say there is no way in hell KL has a better skyline than Chicago. I wouldn't even put it in the top 20 whereas Chicago breezes into the top 5!
Opposing opinions are welcome. We don't need to agree. As long as people are respectful of differing view points... and you have been.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 07:38 PM   #2795
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Originally Posted by JuanPaulo View Post
I think Chicago's skyline is currently superior to many other cities with up and coming skylines. Even if by 2025 Chicago does not have any new supertalls, its architectural diversity and skyscraper heritage will still give a top 5 in the world spot. You have to be more than a skyscraper fan to really admire the skyline of Chicago.... you have to be an architecture fan. That is Chicago's strength. And when you see the Chicago skyline in person, there is no way you would think it does not deserve a top 5 spot.
There's an entrenched view that Chicago's architecture is head and shoulders above everyone else (NYC excluded). My foremost passion is architecture and almost all of my close friends are architects. I do value it highly.

Chicago's trump card is architecture but there's been an increased emphasis on design and architecture everywhere. Perceptions are the hardest to change but people just aren't paying attention if they think the gap isn't also being closed on the architecture front. From Foster to Gehry, cities are investing in architectural excellence. It's not like some of these places weren't already home to Mies and IM Pei masterpieces. Some also have a large stock of pre-WW2 architecture; it's just mostly below 100m so not evident in skyline shots.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 08:20 PM   #2796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KavirajG View Post
Maybe not now but by 2025, it could well be. Irrespective of what are your characteristics for a better skyline, if you compare both, it's a close contest.

Chicago in the Top 5 is tough...NYC, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Shenzhen...these 4 spots are almost guaranteed...
For 5th place, Chicago will have to fight against other Chinese cities like Guangzhou, Chongqing, South East Asian cities, Mumbai, the big names from the Middle East and even its continental counterpart; Toronto.

Herculean task.
This is the beauty of this forum, it allows us to discuss and present our opinions in a friendly manner, thanks for not biting my head off

I appreciate your opinion and it has some fair reasoning to it, but for me not enough to push Chicago out. As JuanPaulo pointed out, Chicago has a really rich diversity in it's skyline, supertalls, spires, different colours and architectural styles, a nice balance of 'standard boxy' towers and then the real eye catchers, a nice build up of density from the edge inwards.

Unfortunately I don't see that with many of the other cities you mentioned. To me they seem to be awash with commie-esque blocks and too many ostentatious towers all vying for the observer's attention. Personally I am more a fan of a more understated, classy skyline which is why I prefer the US, Canadian, Australian skylines (that's not to say I don't appreciate the Asian skylines, I think some of the architecture is awe-inspiring but I just don't like them as much).

My top 5 (it's contentious but just my humble opinion ) would be;
1. New York
2. Chicago
3. Sydney
4. Toronto
5. Melbourne

Then Shanghai, Hong Kong, San Francisco, Seattle and Singapore.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 10:27 PM   #2797
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Another NYC 2025 render:

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Old January 30th, 2016, 04:42 AM   #2798
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Originally Posted by Greedy Sheedy View Post

Personally I am more a fan of a more understated, classy skyline which is why I prefer the US, Canadian, Australian skylines
Sorry to say but classy is a subjective opinion, many people may find the old, gray/brownish skylines of the regions you mentioned as outdated. Objective way to measure skyline quality is height, density and volume.

Having discussion about class is a fruitless debate, no single answer is perfect for everybody.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 07:17 AM   #2799
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Originally Posted by Faisal Shourov View Post
Sorry to say but classy is a subjective opinion, many people may find the old, gray/brownish skylines of the regions you mentioned as outdated. Objective way to measure skyline quality is height, density and volume.

Having discussion about class is a fruitless debate, no single answer is perfect for everybody.
I agree that taste is subjective. By logic, I would assume that the people that find stone and brick clad buildings "outdated" would find glassy buildings as "modern" and "in trend".

I personally like sleek glass buildings, but some of the new skylines that have exploded in the last decade or so have too much of it. Take for example Shanghai's Pudong or Moscow's IBC. There is just too much blue glass to the point that all the buildings blend and only height and extreme geometry become identifiable characteristics. While most of the buildings are exceptional on their own, they disappear in a blue lake of glass. I personally find these skylines very boring on their own:

Shanghai's Pudong

Shanghai2 (251) by CARLOS MORALES, on Flickr


Moscow's IBC

L1006586f by Zinovi Seniak, on Flickr

I like Shanghai's skyline more when it is viewed in contrast to the beautiful stone clad buildings of the Bund across the river. Or when I see the Pudong supertall trio in the background of the gritty concrete jungle of the old city. I like layering, texture, and variety. Same with Moscow's skyline. I am usually more impressed when I see it with the beautiful classical buildings [like the sisters] in the foreground or in the background.

This is why I think Chicago has one of the best skylines in the world and will continue to hold its top 5 place for a good time to come. Chicago has an impeccable menage of stone and glass with the right splashes of color. There is richness of texture and details. Some buildings are embellished without looking tacky while others rejoice on their clean minimalist lines. No nouveau rich in the Windy City.

In all, buildings in Chicago excel as individual musicians but also effortlessly come together to orchestrate a cohesive skyline with an iconic heart beat profile that looks different from every cardinal point. Chicago is the quintessential skyscraper city.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 06:42 PM   #2800
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Your views echo my own. Texture, layering, diversity, quality, and juxtaposition are what I find most pleasing visually. I do admire minimalist glass structures, but like most things they're best in moderation. Too much of it and it becomes soul sucking and sterile. Toronto has far too much of it in sections of the downtown but is thankfully starting to move away from all glass buildings. There's enough architectural diversity and layering that the current glass boom hasn't been detrimental. I don't think it could withstand another 15 years of it though. Downtown would become a depressing sea of glass.

That said, I think it's best to use the word 'classic' in describing those old skylines in Canada/US/Australia rather than 'classy'. Classic or traditional is what I prefer as they've stood the test of time. It's those 'look at me' pretentious designs that fail to impress. They may be all the rage at that moment in time but being trendy is best left to interior design or clothing. Buildings last decades (some times centuries) so need to have a timeless quality to them.
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