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Old February 1st, 2016, 01:50 PM   #2801
ChiCityAtty11
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New York has a nice skyline but New Yorkers are funny people. If you have ever met them, most are like most of the New York posters on this forum -- they all want to believe they are number 1 in EVERYTHING! It is almost as if they are insecure that someone or some city is passing them by so they are very loud and aggressive about touting the merits of their city as #1. They very aggressively shove that down your throat.

Pretty obnoxious if you ask me. A little dose of reality here -- New York can build as many supertalls as it wants, that does not, by definition, mean that New York has the best skyline. That determination will change person to person, year to year and country by country -- that determination is SUBJECTIVE.

I would be able to stomach New York's perspective much better if it was not all about New York. A little objectivity goes a long way... a virtue New Yorkers tend to lack.

Personally, I think New York's skyline lacks symmetry and cohesion. There is a big valley right in the heart of their skyline. That big valley is not going anywhere for a long a long time -- and it will most certainly be there in year 2025. That said, I would still put it in the top 5 for sure... probably top 3. Top 3 is a high compliment but you can bet most New Yorkers wont take it that way.

New Yorkers must realize that other cities have great skylines too and that other cities wont quit. Other countries wont quit. Numbers 1, 2, and 3, etc. will be forever changing... ever evolving. San Francisco is building, Seattle, Chicago, Miami, Toronto are all building and some of the Asian cities are taking skyscrapers to the next level.

My personal number 1 for today at this date and time? Hong Kong. By 2025? Who truly knows... your guess is as good as mine. But there is one thing you can be certain of in 2025 and that is that there will be no unanimous #1.


...
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Old February 1st, 2016, 08:15 PM   #2802
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I think, in my opinion, even objectively speaking, new york has the best skyline by a big margin.
There are other big skylines in asia but the majority of their skylines is made up by commie blocks with a few office towers in between.

Shanghai has Pudong, a small area compared to midtown or downtown, and then the rest is mostly commie blocks, it's the same with most of the Asian skylines, but that is understandable and not a bad thing, it's just that their skylines were created in a different way, from a different environment and a different development level.
There is nowhere else on earth that has the ocean of office towers that new york has, office towers is what makes a real skyline, tbh, commie blocks not so much.
Manhattan is one giant CBD, while other cities have a small CBD surrounded by commieblocks, much less impressive. New york IS a CBD.
Dubai doesn't have the commies but also doesn't have the huge size that new york does. Midtown alone is more impressive than other big skylines and downtown alone would also be in top 5
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Old February 1st, 2016, 10:14 PM   #2803
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Once and future buildings by Eric Fidler, on Flickr
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:11 AM   #2804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stop that View Post
I think, in my opinion, even objectively speaking, new york has the best skyline by a big margin.
There are other big skylines in asia but the majority of their skylines is made up by commie blocks with a few office towers in between.

Shanghai has Pudong, a small area compared to midtown or downtown, and then the rest is mostly commie blocks, it's the same with most of the Asian skylines, but that is understandable and not a bad thing, it's just that their skylines were created in a different way, from a different environment and a different development level.
There is nowhere else on earth that has the ocean of office towers that new york has, office towers is what makes a real skyline, tbh, commie blocks not so much.
Manhattan is one giant CBD, while other cities have a small CBD surrounded by commieblocks, much less impressive. New york IS a CBD.
Dubai doesn't have the commies but also doesn't have the huge size that new york does. Midtown alone is more impressive than other big skylines and downtown alone would also be in top 5
This is a good objective opinion. I like how you put criteria that skylines with more office buildings generally look better than skyline with commie blocks, which is usually true given that residential buildings often have similar and simplistic architecture to minimize cost. No controversial words like classy either. Those who use words like classy intentionally/unintentionally are looking down upon other skylines
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:32 AM   #2805
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The tallest buildings in Toronto (taller than 250 m/820 ft) by 2020.

TO, hopefully, would get a few more supertalls by 2025.


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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:45 AM   #2806
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One Yonge Street 1 and 'The One' should trade places. One Yonge is a gorgeous tower with a classy design. The One is hideous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiCityAtty11 View Post
New York has a nice skyline but New Yorkers are funny people. If you have ever met them, most are like most of the New York posters on this forum -- they all want to believe they are number 1 in EVERYTHING! It is almost as if they are insecure that someone or some city is passing them by so they are very loud and aggressive about touting the merits of their city as #1. They very aggressively shove that down your throat.

Pretty obnoxious if you ask me. A little dose of reality here -- New York can build as many supertalls as it wants, that does not, by definition, mean that New York has the best skyline. That determination will change person to person, year to year and country by country -- that determination is SUBJECTIVE.

I would be able to stomach New York's perspective much better if it was not all about New York. A little objectivity goes a long way... a virtue New Yorkers tend to lack.

Personally, I think New York's skyline lacks symmetry and cohesion. There is a big valley right in the heart of their skyline. That big valley is not going anywhere for a long a long time -- and it will most certainly be there in year 2025. That said, I would still put it in the top 5 for sure... probably top 3. Top 3 is a high compliment but you can bet most New Yorkers wont take it that way.

New Yorkers must realize that other cities have great skylines too and that other cities wont quit. Other countries wont quit. Numbers 1, 2, and 3, etc. will be forever changing... ever evolving. San Francisco is building, Seattle, Chicago, Miami, Toronto are all building and some of the Asian cities are taking skyscrapers to the next level.

My personal number 1 for today at this date and time? Hong Kong. By 2025? Who truly knows... your guess is as good as mine. But there is one thing you can be certain of in 2025 and that is that there will be no unanimous #1.


...
Hong Kong is my #1 as well. And New York is #2 and Chicago #3. But let's be real: none of the cities you listed (San Francisco, Seattle, Miami, Chicago, Toronto) are ever going to pose a threat to New York's dominance. New York is going to face competition from Dubai, Guangzhou, Shanghai and Shenzhen. And that's about it.

Hypothetically in the long-term you can add Bangkok, Jakarta, KL, Manila, Mumbai, etc. But New York is the undisputed #1 in the West and will likely retain that title for the next 50 years, at least. No European city competes on the skyline front and New York's biggest Western rivals - London and Paris - are far behind on skyline. Chicago is not building. San Francisco and Seattle are many leagues below New York (as in they'd have to quintuple their skylines, something neither city has the potential to do given NIMBYs.) So I do see Hong Kong and New York as #1 in their respective poles (East and West), with Hong Kong as a better, more cohesive skyline overall (having visited both places).

And I say that as someone from Alexandria, VA who has visited both Chicago and New York, has never lived in either place but would enjoy both if given the opportunity.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 07:54 AM   #2807
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The diagram doesn't do 'The One' justice imo. Koop does a great job but it's difficult to translate that design into the format above. It's a Foster building and the renderings look great. It promises to be one of the most luxe buildings to go up on this continent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ainvan View Post
The tallest buildings in Toronto by 2020.

TO, hopefully, would get a few more supertalls by 2025.
Toronto is an extremely pragmatic city. That we're now seeing 300m+ buildings proposed/approved is an accurate indication of the economics of high rise construction downtown. Rather than these 3 super talls being an aberration, it's almost certainly the new ceiling. We'll certainly start seeing a slew of proposals 300m+.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 10-15 super talls built by 2025.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 08:03 AM   #2808
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 06:27 PM   #2809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post

Hypothetically in the long-term you can add Bangkok, Jakarta, KL, Manila, Mumbai, etc.
to put things in context..

These cities you mentioned are only in the middle class economies.. imagine if they grow into high income economies (KL already close)...
we could see Skyline growths of these respective cities skyrocket!!
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 06:42 PM   #2810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wino View Post
to put things in context..

These cities you mentioned are only in the middle class economies.. imagine if they grow into high income economies (KL already close)...
we could see Skyline growths of these respective cities skyrocket!!
Is there a correlation between wealth and skyscraper construction? It seems that the fastest growing skylines are in middle income nations with lower construction costs and high population growth, no?
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 08:14 PM   #2811
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income is proportional to Quality of projects.

and yes it does. In the case of Manila, majority of people can't afford housing still.. more wealth can definitely boost real estate.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 10:45 PM   #2812
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Quote:
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income is proportional to Quality of projects.

and yes it does. In the case of Manila, majority of people can't afford housing still.. more wealth can definitely boost real estate.
Quality and quantity are different, however. I agree that wealth means more expensive projects. But I also think that increasing wealth also typically parallels more stringent environmental regulations, longer approval processes and NIMBYism. Not to mention higher labor costs and union/welfare laws that also increase the cost of construction.
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Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:04 PM   #2813
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it depends on how wealthy you are talking about.. I agree costs is a major issue.

but if you look at the capita per income of these mentioned cities.. they are in the average of only $4,000 (excluding KL ) .... even if they reach the minimum income of $10,000 (to be included in high income bracket) that is still way far from the current income of say USA ($53,000)...
Costs will still be significantly lower compared to more advanced nations..

get my drift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
But I also think that increasing wealth also typically parallels more stringent environmental regulations, longer approval processes and NIMBYism. Not to mention higher labor costs and union/welfare laws that also increase the cost of construction.
I understand this.. but again.. it depends on how wealthy the country gets..
these scenarios are more likely when they reach $20,000 or more... (less than half of the current USA)

LOOONG WAY TO GO...
For Manila, it has to grow FOUR TIMES.. just to reach 10,000 income.. which by the way America still considers POOR..

IMO - a "few more" dollars wouldn't hurt these emerging economies "BOOMING skylines".. rather it will serve as a BOOST.
They are very very very far from PEAKING as your theory suggest.. putting income into context..
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Old February 4th, 2016, 05:54 PM   #2814
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Melbourne's Southbank skyline

- The tall green building in the centre of the image is the 317m Australia 108.
- The 317m Crown Plaza tower is also missing from these renders.
- Green = U/C, Blue = Approved, Red = Proposed.





https://urban.melbourne/development/...d-model-update
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Old February 5th, 2016, 12:48 AM   #2815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
The diagram doesn't do 'The One' justice imo. Koop does a great job but it's difficult to translate that design into the format above. It's a Foster building and the renderings look great. It promises to be one of the most luxe buildings to go up on this continent.



Toronto is an extremely pragmatic city. That we're now seeing 300m+ buildings proposed/approved is an accurate indication of the economics of high rise construction downtown. Rather than these 3 super talls being an aberration, it's almost certainly the new ceiling. We'll certainly start seeing a slew of proposals 300m+.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 10-15 super talls built by 2025.
If toronto gers 4 or 5 supertalls it could be in top 3
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Old February 5th, 2016, 03:59 PM   #2816
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Quote:
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If toronto gers 4 or 5 supertalls it could be in top 3
I don't know. Toronto might need close to 10 super talls by 2025 just to stay in the top 10. There will be lots of cities with 400m+, 500m+, even 600m+ by then. New York, Shenzhen, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Dubai, and Guangzhou will make the top 10 then you'll have about 15 skylines on roughly an even keel duking it out for the last 3 spots. A city will need a monster sized skyline just to make the top 20.

Here's Toronto with 1 of the 3 super talls super imposed on the skyline. Construction is slated to start this April/May. Over the next 9 years it will fill in quite a bit (another 100-150 towers in the 150 and 350m range) between this super tall and the CBD in the distance. Will it be enough? I'm not sure.

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Old February 5th, 2016, 05:01 PM   #2817
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Metropolitan Manila
Makati and Bonifacio Global City CBD

Makati

BCG


Photo By: Juvyrose Santos
Photo By: dailyoverview
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Old February 5th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #2818
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Twin Skylines?
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Old February 5th, 2016, 07:32 PM   #2819
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Twin Skylines?
We could say that. But BGC needs a lot more to equal that of Makati's. Don't forget Ortigas Center.
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Old February 5th, 2016, 10:43 PM   #2820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stop that View Post
I think, in my opinion, even objectively speaking, new york has the best skyline by a big margin.
There are other big skylines in asia but the majority of their skylines is made up by commie blocks with a few office towers in between.

Shanghai has Pudong, a small area compared to midtown or downtown, and then the rest is mostly commie blocks, it's the same with most of the
Asian skylines, but that is understandable and not a bad thing, it's just that their skylines were created in a different way, from a different
environment and a different development level.
There is nowhere else on earth that has the ocean of office towers that new york has, office towers is what makes a real skyline, tbh, commie
blocks not so much.
Manhattan is one giant CBD, while other cities have a small CBD surrounded by commieblocks, much less impressive. New york IS a CBD.
Dubai doesn't have the commies but also doesn't have the huge size that new york does. Midtown alone is more impressive than other big skylines
and downtown alone would also be in top 5
Asian downtowns are NOT just 'small' downtowns and the rest 'commie blocks' ( and even if you were to regard the Lujiazui district in Pudong as
the sole office downtown area, it's still more than half of Manhattan in area, let alone 'small compared to downtown or midtown'). It's not
Shenzhen 1996, it's not Sao Paulo. You may well level that sweeping statement at cities like Seoul, or Beijing (though actually are huge ceremonial
centres, and like protected European cities, their office districts are well outside), but not the rest. -There are indeed vast swathes of highrise
residential districts, but one has to remember those are akin to the 'suburbs', replacing what would be the typical lowrise sprawl with highrise
oceans - and their actual city centres are just as vast and diverse, and office-block happy as North America, if not more so. Furthermore they will
often include several Old Towns (Shanghai for example has 5). Both Shanghai and Tokyo, famous for oceans of suburban highrises/ midrises, also
vie for the title of world's biggest city centres.


Shanghai outside Pudong













Shenzhen Futian (just one of several multi-nodal CBDs)












some of its new rising CBDs are 20km apart










A good indication of nightlife / city centres and offices are the neon that delineate the commercial buildings and streets from the residential:








Nanjing




Hong Kong




Guangzhou - old and new city centres










Tianjin

CBD no 2 centre




the controversial CBD no 3 being built at Yujiapu is no less than 40km from the traditional centre





Singapore







Tokyo has the world's largest office buildings (by average floorspace), but are kept to the 700-900ft limit due to the earthquake zone.
Plenty of residential blocks - but the city centre and multi-nodal CBDs are vast, the largest in the world in effect:







Please look at this page:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...732814&page=11
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