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Old September 17th, 2013, 10:49 PM   #741
QuantumX
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Boston dropped from 50 to 57 so I feel your pain. I think it only went up 1 point in the last year. That's what happens when the current "boom" is stuck around 70-90 meters. When the list started a few years back I think we were as high as 24. We are finally getting some nice new towers over here, (190-200m+) but I don't think that will be enough in this day and age, especially with Chinese cities exploding the way they are.
It's really hard to compete with that cheap Chinese labor, but I would prefer American workers be paid well. When the list started a few years back, Miami was actually as high as 18, which really kind of stunned me, but as you can see, we slowly slid down to 28. Still Miami has a lot under construction now and a lot more scheduled to start next year, so Miami will be gaining a lot more skyline. I just don't know how it will measure up with the other big skylines of the world.

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I think the most interesting one is Toronto. Most booming city in North America, and yet it didn't move. Also Istanbul, booming and fell a spot.
Toronto did at least move ahead of Panama City, which is what I was anticipating.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #742
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Is there away of accessing the old list? Regarding Toronto, the 'weakest' cities ahead of it seem to be Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, and Seoul... if you can call them weak at all. Jakarta will likely stay ahead of Toronto. There are 24 million people there.

In 2014, we might start to see the first significant drop for Chicago. It might fall 3 places down to 9th.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #743
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Manila was below Kuala Lumpur before (and Seoul I think....) now it's ahead.

next one to overtake is Singapore and Chongging. Can't wait for the updated list.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #744
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Manila jumped ahead of Seoul as well.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #745
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How is the development in Chongging?
Do you think Manila can catch up with it?

Growth in Chinese cities are just tough to catch up with..
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #746
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Is there away of accessing the old list?
Isaidso, if there is, I haven't figured it out yet. If the market holds up, with what's planned, Toronto has a shot at the top 10.

http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html

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In 2014, we might start to see the first significant drop for Chicago. It might fall 3 places down to 9th.
Unfortunately for Chicago, you could very well be right.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #747
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Isaidso, if there is, I haven't figured it out yet. If the markets holds up, with what's planned, Toronto has a shot at the top 10.
I won't be surprised if other dark horses (Chinese cities below the top 20) will compete in the top 10 in the next few years though...

top 10 will really be a tough one. Even for Manila which is booming more than Toronto... Bangkok's score at top 9 is waaay ahead at 16,000 points... lots of catching up to do... So the only battle will be for TOP 10.. which will really really be a close fight among booming cities.

I'd be happy and content if Toronto jumps its rank UP somewhere in the top 15.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:54 PM   #748
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I won't be surprised if other dark horses (Chinese cities below the top 20) will compete in the top 10 in the next few years though...

top 10 will really be a tough one. Even for Manila which is booming more than Toronto... Bangkok's score at top 9 is waaay ahead at 16,000 points... lots of catching up to do... So the only battle will be for TOP 10.. which will really really be a close fight among booming cities.

I'd be happy and content if Toronto jumps its rank UP somewhere in the top 15.
I see what you mean. I thought Miami had a shot at getting back into the top 20 (lower teens), but we still might not be able to do it even if all that is planned actually gets built.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #749
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Some of the new list is definitely wrong. For example, they forgot about Devon Tower in Oklahoma City! How do you miss something that large and prominent? Who knows what else they missed.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:03 AM   #750
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Isaidso, if there is, I haven't figured it out yet. If the market holds up, with what's planned, Toronto has a shot at the top 10.
Perhaps we should save the 2013 list so we're not in this position next year?

Toronto proposals represent a doubling of the current skyline, so a lot depends on them moving to construction. If only a quarter move to construction it will only be enough to maintain Toronto's current position or perhaps move to 15th.

All of them getting built should vault Toronto to about 19,000 pts, but the market has cooled down significantly here. I'm hoping they'll all still get built, but just take longer before shovels hit the ground.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:09 AM   #751
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Keep in mind the (beyond) booming cities that are just itching to burst into the top 15 themselves, and rain all over the parade of the Toronto's, Miami's, etc. (well actually, they just rained all over Miami's parade, Toronto is next) The biggest threats here are Tianjin and Mumbai, with Beijing, Nanjing, and Moscow also lurking. Toronto is going to have a hell of a tough time breaking into the top 15. Even if they can pass, say, Singapore, Seoul, or KL within a few years (surprisingly unlikely) by then Tianjin and Mumbai will most likely have blown right by them. We've got a dogfight for sure!
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #752
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Some of the new list is definitely wrong. For example, they forgot about Devon Tower in Oklahoma City! How do you miss something that large and prominent? Who knows what else they missed.
I'm not sure what you mean. Where are they listing one prominent building in one city?

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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Perhaps we should save the 2013 list so we're not in this position next year?

Toronto proposals represent a doubling of the current skyline, so a lot depends on them moving to construction. If only a quarter move to construction it will only be enough to maintain Toronto's current position or perhaps move to 15th.

All of them getting built should vault Toronto to about 19,000 pts, but the market has cooled down significantly here. I'm hoping they'll all still get built, but just take longer before shovels hit the ground.
It doesn't let me copy the page as a picture, so I copied at least the text, which doesn't look very pretty, but at least the information is there. Anyway, 2025 is lots of time for Toronto to have another boom. For instance, a lot of projects that didn't make it in the last decade here in Miami are being resurrected in this decade. Our parade might have gotten rained on DZH22, but the parade is not over and we don't know where it's going to end.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:17 AM   #753
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I'm not sure what you mean. Where are they listing one prominent building in one city?
They list the tallest building in each city. Devon was completed a year or 2 ago. It's something like 257 meters, yet they still list Chase as the tallest at 152 meters. That's almost 170 points missing from their tally. What I'm saying is, if they missed such a highly publicized building being completed, what else did they miss?
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #754
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I think this might help explain the omission of Devon Tower. Way to go Emporis!!!

http://www.emporis.com/building/devo...ma-city-ok-usa
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:24 AM   #755
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well it is already a given that the list isn't accurate.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #756
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Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
They list the tallest building in each city. Devon was completed a year or 2 ago. It's something like 257 meters, yet they still list Chase as the tallest at 152 meters. That's almost 170 points missing from their tally. What I'm saying is, if they missed such a highly publicized building being completed, what else did they miss?
Oh, I see what you mean. You have to click on "next 100" at the bottom to see that. I didn't even know there was a "next 100."
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Old September 18th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
It doesn't let me copy the page as a picture, so I copied at least the text, which doesn't look very pretty, but at least the information is there. Anyway, 2025 is lots of time for Toronto to have another boom. For instance, a lot of projects that didn't make it in the last decade here in Miami are being resurrected in this decade. Our parade might have gotten rained on DZH22, but the parade is not over and we don't know where it's going to end.
I'll try and remember that you have a copy. We'll need it this time next year.

It says a lot that some north American cities are building yet tread water or slip multiple spots in just one year. It's part of the global power re-alignment to Asia, but I suppose we should be glad that they're doing well. It means hundreds of millions of people are being lifted out of poverty there.

That said, we all have aspirations for the places we call home. Take solace in the fact that you Americans will always have New York. Canadians have long waited for a one of our cities to blossom into a world beater like that. Toronto is our best hope. We're adamant that we will get there although I'm quite pleased with the city it's turned into already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
Keep in mind the (beyond) booming cities that are just itching to burst into the top 15 themselves, and rain all over the parade of the Toronto's, Miami's, etc. (well actually, they just rained all over Miami's parade, Toronto is next) The biggest threats here are Tianjin and Mumbai, with Beijing, Nanjing, and Moscow also lurking. Toronto is going to have a hell of a tough time breaking into the top 15. Even if they can pass, say, Singapore, Seoul, or KL within a few years (surprisingly unlikely) by then Tianjin and Mumbai will most likely have blown right by them. We've got a dogfight for sure!
It's going to be interesting to watch unfold although I have a gut feeling that Toronto will have to pull something out of a hat to move into the top 15. Toronto is a relatively small city and I'm not sure if we'll have enough scale behind us to stay in the game long term. We're going up against cities that completely dwarf us.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 06:39 AM   #758
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I'll try and remember that you have a copy. We'll need it this time next year.

It says a lot that some north American cities are building yet tread water or slip multiple spots in just one year. It's part of the global power re-alignment to Asia, but I suppose we should be glad that they're doing well. It means hundreds of millions of people are being lifted out of poverty there.

That said, we all have aspirations for the places we call home. Take solace in the fact that you Americans will always have New York. Canadians have long waited for a one of our cities to blossom into a world beater like that. Toronto is our best hope. We're adamant that we will get there although I'm quite pleased with the city it's turned into already.

It's going to be interesting to watch unfold although I have a gut feeling that Toronto will have to pull something out of a hat to move into the top 15. Toronto is a relatively small city and I'm not sure if we'll have enough scale behind us to stay in the game long term. We're going up against cities that completely dwarf us.
Isaidso, the ranking for the previous year though is in the column just to the left of this year's ranking.

http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html

I have faith in what Toronto can do in the next 10 years though. The market might have slowed down there for now, but let's see what happens. I think a lot can happen.

With Miami, there is a lot planned and scheduled to start construction next year. It just has to get out of the ground to be counted, and here in Miami, we have lots of cheap property ripe for development and for whatever the market will bear. Lots of South American and European interest here right now. We don't have a lot of older history here in Miami that should be preserved. Just a lot a parking lots ready whenever the market is.
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Old September 18th, 2013, 06:45 AM   #759
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They list the tallest building in each city. Devon was completed a year or 2 ago. It's something like 257 meters, yet they still list Chase as the tallest at 152 meters. That's almost 170 points missing from their tally. What I'm saying is, if they missed such a highly publicized building being completed, what else did they miss?
They miss thousands of buildings of Chinese cities , I wonder is that many Chinese cities are no official statistics nor civil statistical data, where their data comes from?
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Old September 18th, 2013, 08:02 AM   #760
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The Chinese government is notoriously bad at collecting civil data.
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