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Old January 13th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #1101
QuantumX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
As long as buyers keep showing up with cash, the towers will go up. Many of the towers proposed are selling out as we speak...
It used to be New York and Chicago were the two American cities that saw continuous non-stop development, but with Miami, I think we might be seeing a paradigm shift here. As many of you have heard me say before, I've been a skyscraper enthusiast for nearly 40 years, and in the USA, I have never seen anything like what's happening in Miami now outside of New York and Chicago.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 03:07 AM   #1102
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Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
It used to be New York and Chicago were the two American cities that saw continuous non-stop development, but with Miami, I think we might be seeing a paradigm shift here. As many of you have heard me say before, I've been a skyscraper enthusiast for nearly 40 years, and in the USA, I have never seen anything like what's happening in Miami now outside of New York and Chicago.

Miami A Go-Go!

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Old January 13th, 2014, 05:40 AM   #1103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertpunk View Post
As long as buyers keep showing up with cash, the towers will go up. Many of the towers proposed are selling out as we speak....

exMiami just posted their list so I updated mine (how could I forget about Kauderer's 70 story post-land swap Brickell Flatiron tower? And I was away when the 600 ft. La Chanson Brickell tower was announced so I'll make a thread for that one)



While I'm at it, here's a NYC listing: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...19&postcount=1

Are you sitting comfortably?
You deserve a Nobel Prize for making that NYC listing
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Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:20 PM   #1104
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Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
Well, being exuberant and say 'Toronto iz the greatest skyline in the world eva!' are two completely different things in my book. There's nothing bad being excited by such a big change on your own city.
I wouldn't give those comments the time of day. Manitopiaa rarely has anything positive to say about Toronto (or Canada). His attempt to paint Torontonians as a bunch of idiots out of touch with reality is lame and few who've been on SSC for a while are going to fall for it.

Toronto's boom is massive by anyone's standards. We're in year 7 of the construction boom so it hasn't exactly been some brief 2-3 year phenomenon. Any one who bothered to check the numbers would quickly realize that it's not a bunch of cheerleaders talking it up into something it isn't. The only cities that built more than Toronto from 2012 to 2013 were Manila, Jakarta, and 4 Chinese cities.

This was a quantitative analysis that counted every metre over 90m built in cities around the world. So if a city built a 150m building it counted as '60' or 150-90. Toronto came 7th and built 1.461 km. This is the top 20:


Shenzhen 2663
Shenyang 2542
Manila 2453
Wuxi 1839
Jakarta 1814
Wuhan 1638
Toronto 1461
Tianjin 1460
Kuala Lumpur 1454
Chongqing 1379

Dubai 1281
Chengdu 1225
New York 961
Hangzhou 876
Shanghai 876
Moscow 863
Qingdao 804
Istanbul 744
Tokyo 743
Singapore 712


Btw, New York is experiencing a fantastic boom but it's hardly pulling away from Toronto like Manitopiaa seems to think. Just 10 years ago the New York skyline was easily 6 times the size of Toronto's skyline. Today it's still far bigger, but only 4 times larger. If the majority of the proposals on the table in New York and Toronto get built it will be 3 times bigger. How is the gap widening?

2013 List: http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html
2012 List: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1846725370
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #1105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
Awesome photo Quantum. That's one of my favourites so far.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:58 PM   #1106
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Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
Agree 100%. What's happening in Toronto (and to a lesser extent Miami) is very exciting. I believe Toronto has almost tripled its skyline in the last 20 years. I only wish there was more variety and creativity in what's coming out.
Agree as well. Btw, keep in mind that Manitopiaa based his entire argument on 200m buildings. A 200m+ building is what has far more visual impact but he's being awfully dismissive of Toronto and has an 'agenda'. He's not exactly going to post any data that would indicate that Toronto is gaining on Chicago, only data that suggests the opposite.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #1107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Awesome photo Quantum. That's one of my favourites so far.
Thanks, Isaidso! Posting that one was really an after thought because that perspective is so overdone, but then I realized that I actually got more into that shot than other photos from that perspective, so a photo I initially wasn't so pleased with, on closer inspection, became a photo I'm very pleased with.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 05:55 PM   #1108
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Cities seem to have their standard money shot. They can get over done, but they're popular vantage points for a reason. What stadium is that in the distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
That's a very impressive shot of Aventura looking towards Hollywood.

Have you done the count for all 500 footers completed and u/c for Miami metro? I am counting 49:

35 in Miami (per SSCenter)
11 in Sunny Isles
2 in Miami Beach
1 in Hallandale Beach

Anything else?

That's only one short of Toronto metro.
We've covered 300m+, 200m+, 150m+, but then there's 100m+ and also the all inclusive 'High Rises'. The picture changes drastically in north America for the latter two measures. I omitted proposals as you've mentioned you prefer to not look at those.

Number of 100m+ Buildings: Built and U/C
1. New York 734
2. Chicago 308
3. Toronto 260
4. Miami 110
5. Houston 86
6. San Francisco 82
7. Atlanta 70
8. Los Angeles 69
9. Calgary 65
10. Vancouver 52

Number of High Rises (35m or taller): Built and U/C
1. New York 5,823
2. Toronto 2,373
3. Chicago 1,156
4. Vancouver 768
5. Montreal 638
6. Miami 571
7. Los Angeles 548
8. Houston 467
9. San Francisco 442
10. Philadelphia 371


* Couldn't find data on Panama City on SSP.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 06:02 PM   #1109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
I think Miami has great growth potential, probably more than every city in North America minus New York. Latin America is booming, Miami is a Latin city and there's high demand for housing. That's a recipe for success.
Miami is not a Latin city. It is an American city with a very large Latin population, and it is becoming more cosmopolitan by the day, meaning it's gaining a healthy mix of all kinds of different people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
I love it when American cities build vertically and I hope Miami's skyscraper style is picked up by other places.
Really? So many people hate it!
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Old January 13th, 2014, 06:19 PM   #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
I'll check out the 200m+ (656ft) since 600ft is a very arbitrary number whereas 200m is the SSC standard.

Chicago
1. Willis Tower 1,451ft
2. Trump International Hotel and Tower 1,389ft
3. Aon Center 1,136ft
4. John Hancock Center 1,127ft
5. Franklin Center North Center 1,007ft
6. Two Prudential Plaza 995ft
7. 311 South Wacker Drive 961ft
8. 900 North Michigan 871ft
9. Water Tower Place 859ft
10. Aqua 859ft
11. Chase Tower 850ft
12. Park Tower 844ft
13. The Legacy at Millennium Park 822ft
14. 300 North LaSalle 784ft
15. Three First National Plaza 767ft
16. Chicago Title and Trust Center 755ft
17. Blue Cross Blue Shield Tower 743ft
18. One Museum Park 734ft
U/C #28. River Point 732ft
19. Olympia Centre 731ft
20. 330 North Wabash 695ft
21. Waldorf Astoria Chicago 686ft
22. 111 South Wacker Drive 681ft
23. 181 West Madison Street 680ft
24. Hyatt Center 679ft
25. One Magnificent Mile 673ft
26. 340 on the Park 672ft
27. 77 West Wacker Drive 668ft

So 28 Completed & U/C plus 13 proposals (outlined above) = 41 Skyscrapers.

Toronto
1. First Canadian Place 978ft
2. Trump International Hotel and Tower 908ft
3. Scotia Plaza 902ft
U/C #12 Aura at College Park 892ft
4. TD Canada Trust Tower 856ft
U/C #13 Number One Bloor East 844ft
5. Commerce Court West 784ft
U/C #14 Ice Condos at York Centre 2 768ft
U/C #15 Harbour Plaza Residences East 764ft
U/C #16 Harbour Plaza Residences West 735ft
6. Toronto-Dominin Tower 731ft
7. Bay Adelaide Centre West Tower 715ft
8. Shangri-La Toronto 702ft
9. Ritz-Carlton Toronto 684ft
10. Bay Wellington Tower 679ft
T/O #17 L Tower 673ft
11. Four Seasons Hotel and Residences West 669ft
U/C #18 88 Scott Centre 669ft
T/O #19 Ice Condos at York Centre 1 663ft

So 19 Completed & U/C plus 19 Proposals = 38 Skyscrapers
.
Chicago 28 completed & U/C plus 13 Proposed = 41 Skyscrapers (2000 = 17)
Toronto 19 completed & U/C plus 19 Proposed = 38 Skyscrapers (2000 = 6)
London 6 Completed & U/C plus 13 Proposed = 19 Skyscrapers (2000 = 1)

Growth since 2001

Chicago = 141.18 %
Toronto = 533.33 %
London = 1800.00 %
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Old January 13th, 2014, 06:49 PM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Here's what I get for North American metros for Skyscrapers over 500ft Completed, T/O or U/C:
Adding International:
Manila: 3 (seems low)
I am so positive that there is something wrong with this one.

just counting buildings with more than 200m height(roof) Manila already has more than 30+...
and you are only talking about 500 feet.. (152.4 feet)

just curious where you got the figure?



any ways, to have a better idea on the numbers.. it is more or less like this..
source: wiki (although I can't say how up to date the list is)
(only counted 153 meters and above)
completed + T/O: 50
U/C: 28
preparation/excavation: 5


proposals and planned not included.
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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #1112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Agree as well. Btw, keep in mind that Manitopiaa based his entire argument on 200m buildings. A 200m+ building is what has far more visual impact but he's being awfully dismissive of Toronto and has an 'agenda'. He's not exactly going to post any data that would indicate that Toronto is gaining on Chicago, only data that suggests the opposite.
Because you're such a paragon of neutrality, right?

Toronto beating New York, now? By next week, you'll be claiming Toronto is competing with Coruscant.
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Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
Portland (3,160,488) - San Diego (3,317,749) - San Francisco (8,751,807) - Seattle (4,684,516) - Tampa (3,032,171) - Washington (9,665,892)

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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:42 AM   #1113
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Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
Miami is not a Latin city. It is an American city with a very large Latin population, and it is becoming more cosmopolitan by the day, meaning it's gaining a healthy mix of all kinds of different people.



Really? So many people hate it!
Miami is very much a Latin city. Why are Latin and American mutually exclusive? San Antonio, Santa Fe, Los Angeles are all Latin and American imo.
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Atlanta (6,451,262) - Boston (8,176,376) - Chicago (9,882,634) - Cleveland (3,483,311) - Dallas (7,673,305) - Denver (3,470,235) - Detroit (5,318,653) - Houston (6,972,374)
Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
Portland (3,160,488) - San Diego (3,317,749) - San Francisco (8,751,807) - Seattle (4,684,516) - Tampa (3,032,171) - Washington (9,665,892)

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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:44 AM   #1114
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^
Santa Fe is Hispanic. It's a New Mexico thing.
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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:44 AM   #1115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wino View Post
I am so positive that there is something wrong with this one.

just counting buildings with more than 200m height(roof) Manila already has more than 30+...
and you are only talking about 500 feet.. (152.4 feet)

just curious where you got the figure?



any ways, to have a better idea on the numbers.. it is more or less like this..
source: wiki (although I can't say how up to date the list is)
(only counted 153 meters and above)
completed + T/O: 50
U/C: 28
preparation/excavation: 5


proposals and planned not included.
SkyscraperCenter and I figured out why it seemed low. Makati wasn't added. With Makati, the number is actually 42: http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/crea...=on&list_year=
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Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
Portland (3,160,488) - San Diego (3,317,749) - San Francisco (8,751,807) - Seattle (4,684,516) - Tampa (3,032,171) - Washington (9,665,892)

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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:48 AM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birmingham View Post
Chicago 28 completed & U/C plus 13 Proposed = 41 Skyscrapers (2000 = 17)
Toronto 19 completed & U/C plus 19 Proposed = 38 Skyscrapers (2000 = 6)
London 6 Completed & U/C plus 13 Proposed = 19 Skyscrapers (2000 = 1)

Growth since 2001

Chicago = 141.18 %
Toronto = 533.33 %
London = 1800.00 %
London's growth is very impressive. Not only that but London's skyscrapers make Toronto's and Chicago's look like the projects. There's not a single London project that isn't stunning imo.
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Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
Portland (3,160,488) - San Diego (3,317,749) - San Francisco (8,751,807) - Seattle (4,684,516) - Tampa (3,032,171) - Washington (9,665,892)

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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:53 AM   #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Cities seem to have their standard money shot. They can get over done, but they're popular vantage points for a reason. What stadium is that in the distance?



We've covered 300m+, 200m+, 150m+, but then there's 100m+ and also the all inclusive 'High Rises'. The picture changes drastically in north America for the latter two measures. I omitted proposals as you've mentioned you prefer to not look at those.

Number of 100m+ Buildings: Built and U/C
1. New York 734
2. Chicago 308
3. Toronto 260
4. Miami 110
5. Houston 86
6. San Francisco 82
7. Atlanta 70
8. Los Angeles 69
9. Calgary 65
10. Vancouver 52

Number of High Rises (35m or taller): Built and U/C
1. New York 5,823
2. Toronto 2,373
3. Chicago 1,156
4. Vancouver 768
5. Montreal 638
6. Miami 571
7. Los Angeles 548
8. Houston 467
9. San Francisco 442
10. Philadelphia 371


* Couldn't find data on Panama City on SSP.
35m? You're not serious. Why not just add light poles if you're going to be absurd about your comparisons. This is 35 meters:


Are you honestly, honestly, arguing 35 meter buildings have any visual impact on a skyline? And I'm the biased one lol
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Atlanta (6,451,262) - Boston (8,176,376) - Chicago (9,882,634) - Cleveland (3,483,311) - Dallas (7,673,305) - Denver (3,470,235) - Detroit (5,318,653) - Houston (6,972,374)
Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
Portland (3,160,488) - San Diego (3,317,749) - San Francisco (8,751,807) - Seattle (4,684,516) - Tampa (3,032,171) - Washington (9,665,892)

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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:58 AM   #1118
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Cities seem to have their standard money shot. They can get over done, but they're popular vantage points for a reason. What stadium is that in the distance?
That's Marlins Park, our new baseball stadium. We also need a new baseball team to go with it. I was really surprised at how often it shows up in so many of my skyline shots.
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Old January 14th, 2014, 01:59 AM   #1119
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Because you're such a paragon of neutrality, right?

Toronto beating New York, now? By next week, you'll be claiming Toronto is competing with Coruscant.
Uhm, where he said Toronto is beating NYC?
Again, beating? It's that a sort of competition for you? The National Skyscrapers League? Chill out dude
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Old January 14th, 2014, 02:01 AM   #1120
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Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
Uhm, where he said Toronto is beating NYC?
Again, beating? It's that a sort of competition for you? The National Skyscrapers League? Chill out dude
I don't see where people are making these claims about Toronto. I think Dubai actually does look something like Coruscant.
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