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Old July 19th, 2014, 06:51 AM   #1841
ChiSkyline
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Originally Posted by WingWing View Post
Yes more doesnt mean good. No offense Just like sao paulo which has many skyscrapers and highrises but doesnt look attracting. One more probably dubai, even though has world most supertall but do u like dubai skyline? Based one number of supertalls dubai should be ranked 1
Exactly my point. Dubai's skyline ISNT the most attractive skyline but they do have a high number of supertalls. Same for shenzhen. They have a sea of highrises but not a flowing skyline. This thread should be named which city will have the biggest growth in skyscrapers rather than which city will have the best skyline. A skyline to me is all about a beauty and flow along with each skyscraper complimenting each other.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 09:35 AM   #1842
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The real question here is; Does more skyscrapers actually mean a better skyline? And the answer, honestly, to that question is simply no imo. The skyline is not based on individual skyscrapers and the amount but each and everyone of them creating the skyline. And some skyscrapers ruin the skyline rather than help it. It really depends on what is being built and where it's being built that can help enhance any skyline.
I agree with everything you're saying, but I also believe that a skyline needs a certain level of scale and height to become part of the conversation. I love skylines like Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Warsaw, etc. but none of them are big enough to enter a 'World's Best' list. For me scale and height is a starting point. Then I start sorting based on architectural diversity, quality, layering, arrangement, beauty, etc.

In the end 'best' is subjective and if someone thought Yellowknife has the world's best skyline, they'd be entitled to that opinion. Beauty (or Best) is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #1843
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Some interesting projects in Melbourne. One thing i have noticed that Australian skyscrapers/supertalls have very low ceiling height. Why is that?
Most of the projects on the go at the moment are residential projects. Residential towers generally have lower ceiling heights than office towers.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #1844
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Guangzhou isn't dominating skyscraper section from what I see, in fact it has very few 200m building in prep. Guangzhou has already reached its peak
Yes, but this will probably change in the next years. Guangzhou city is still growing rapidly and it has two completely new CBDs in the works, namely the International Financial City just a few km from the current main CBD and the Baitan CBD that will help to enable a complete fuse of Guangzhou and Foshan.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 07:48 PM   #1845
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I agree with everything you're saying, but I also believe that a skyline needs a certain level of scale and height to become part of the conversation. I love skylines like Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Warsaw, etc. but none of them are big enough to enter a 'World's Best' list. For me scale and height is a starting point. Then I start sorting based on architectural diversity, quality, layering, arrangement, beauty, etc.

In the end 'best' is subjective and if someone thought Yellowknife has the world's best skyline, they'd be entitled to that opinion. Beauty (or Best) is in the eye of the beholder.
You're 100% right. Skylines need a wow factor and height does that. I just feel basing the worlds best skylines in the future by how many supertalls/skyscrapers/highrises they have under u/c is kind of weird, I guess you can say, because they can only make our break the skyline, big or small. A great flowing skyline with a variety of sizes of skyscrapers along with architectural diversity creates a great skyline.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 08:11 PM   #1846
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Even if they have many projects and supertalls but if their design doesnt blend well then I don't think it will look appealing.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 10:23 PM   #1847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSkyline View Post
Exactly my point. Dubai's skyline ISNT the most attractive skyline but they do have a high number of supertalls. Same for shenzhen. They have a sea of highrises but not a flowing skyline. This thread should be named which city will have the biggest growth in skyscrapers rather than which city will have the best skyline. A skyline to me is all about a beauty and flow along with each skyscraper complimenting each other.
Chicago-highrise to highrise
I disagree about Shenzhen part. Shenzhen has lots of spectacular skyline shots from multiple angles. You shouldn't count the highrise residential buildings outside the CBD as part of the skyline, otherwise anybody can shoot photos of suburban houses in Chicago and say Chicago skyline is short and tiny. All cities with population 10 million and above have multiple core areas (like New York for ex). We don't look at photos of Brooklyn and say NYC doesn't have a flowing skyline.

And this thread is about 2025, Shenzhen has more than 60 buildings above 200m U/C right now. We should save our criticism for later
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Old July 20th, 2014, 01:27 AM   #1848
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Originally Posted by ChiSkyline View Post
You're 100% right. Skylines need a wow factor and height does that. I just feel basing the worlds best skylines in the future by how many supertalls/skyscrapers/highrises they have under u/c is kind of weird, I guess you can say, because they can only make our break the skyline, big or small. A great flowing skyline with a variety of sizes of skyscrapers along with architectural diversity creates a great skyline.
Yes, quantitative measures like # of supertalls/skyscrapers/highrses is important, but shouldn't be the only factor. It's why I rank Chicago ahead of Dubai and Shenzhen. At some point however, size does count for something. Dubai is just too big too leave out of a top 10 despite having lots of weaknesses.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #1849
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Originally Posted by Faisal Shourov View Post
I disagree about Shenzhen part. Shenzhen has lots of spectacular skyline shots from multiple angles. You shouldn't count the highrise residential buildings outside the CBD as part of the skyline, otherwise anybody can shoot photos of suburban houses in Chicago and say Chicago skyline is short and tiny. All cities with population 10 million and above have multiple core areas (like New York for ex). We don't look at photos of Brooklyn and say NYC doesn't have a flowing skyline.

And this thread is about 2025, Shenzhen has more than 60 buildings above 200m U/C right now. We should save our criticism for later
When I look at Shenzhen, I see a sea of high rises. Not really appealing AS OF NOW. Who knows how it'll look by 2025. As I said, the 60+ 200m buildings u/c can only make or break it's skyline or it wont even make a difference. The skyline is similar to Miami or Panama City but much more dense. I for one am going to count the high rises as part of the skyline, if those areas were much more dense, so would many other people, but since it isnt many people pay no mind to the outer buildings because it isnt as jaw dropping the downtown skyline. It's in the city boundaries, doesnt touch Evanston, why not count it? If you were to take those highrises and put them into the downtown area, then would it count? Or if downtown moved outward, then would it count?
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Old July 20th, 2014, 08:21 AM   #1850
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My Top 10 in 2025

01. New York
02. Shenzhen
03. Shanghai
04. Hong Kong
05. Guangzhou

06. Mumbai
07. Chongqing
08. Tianjin
09. Toronto
10. Dubai
Toronto or Mumbai passing Chicago?
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:27 AM   #1851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSkyline View Post
The real question here is; Does more skyscrapers actually mean a better skyline? And the answer, honestly, to that question is simply no imo. The skyline is not based on individual skyscrapers and the amount but each and everyone of them creating the skyline. And some skyscrapers ruin the skyline rather than help it. It really depends on what is being built and where it's being built that can help enhance any skyline.
I totally agree with your. And I will give you an example. The lower Manhattan skyline was MUCH more appealing, in my opinion, before the 1960's boom of ugly boxy towers. Nowadays the once dominating pinnacles of a beautiful skyline are completely lost amidst an inundation of buildings that all flat out about the same height. Thank God now that WTC1, despite no being an icon like the original twins, has brought back a peak so we can actually call this a skyline. Buildings make or break a skyline because of location, quality, fit, etc. and not because of shear numbers.









Even the midtown skyline was better I think before the current "plateau". Again, luckily the super skinny residential towers are about to save the day.

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Old July 20th, 2014, 10:18 AM   #1852
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Even the midtown skyline was better I think before the current "plateau". Again, luckily the super skinny residential towers are about to save the day.
You mean such as in these renderings?

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Old July 20th, 2014, 10:41 AM   #1853
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Mumbai's stock exchanges and equity markets are actually the best performing in the entire Asia - Pacific region, and among the best in the world for 2014!
I've posted some references below with reference to this.
Also, Mumbai's stock exchanges (BSE including Sensex + NSE) are the sixth largest in the world by market capitalization (nearly US$ 3 trillion).
Only New York City (NYSE + NASDAQ), Tokyo, Amsterdam-based Euronext, London (LSE) and Hong Kong are bigger.


Financially, Mumbai is booming.

As of May 31, 2014, these are the world's top 10 stock markets by market capitalization:

1. NYSE
2. NASDAQ
3. Tokyo Stock Ex
4. London Stock Ex
5. Euronext
6. Hong Kong Stock Ex
7. Shanghai Stock Ex
8. Toronto Stock Ex
9. Frankfurt Stock Ex
10. Six Swiss Ex


Mumbai is not on the top 10 list nor is its market cap 3 trillion USD (it's just under 1.4 trillion actually).
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Old July 20th, 2014, 11:24 AM   #1854
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Toronto or Mumbai passing Chicago?
Check out the Mumbai development thread. That city is going to come out of nowhere and rocket right to the top. It's the New York or Toronto of a rapidly developing nation of 1.4 billion people. It's just a matter of time before the Mumbai skyline hits the big leagues. A mind boggling number of buildings are going up there and there's a ton of money in that city.

Toronto? I crunched the numbers for Toronto and Chicago back in March and it suggests Toronto could pass Chicago well before 2025. Extracted from the SSP database, this is for completed and under construction only. I'm honestly surprised how close it's getting. I've included the CN Tower as it has visual impact despite not being a 'building'.

In 2-3 Years

Built, U/C

# of Buildings 400m+
Chicago 1
Toronto 1

# of Buildings 300-399m
Chicago 3
Toronto 0

# of Buildings 200-299m
Chicago 24
Toronto 19

# of Buildings 100-199m
Chicago 278
Toronto 235

# of Buildings 50-99m
Chicago 636
Toronto 1028

_________________________________________________________________


A snap shot to 2020?

Proposals aren't a sure thing, but if they get built this is how it will pan out. It's only in super tall buildings where Toronto would still trail.

Toronto will likely be ahead in 3 of the 5 categories. In the 2 categories where Chicago is ahead we're really just talking about 6 buildings. 6 monumental buildings for sure, but overall this is getting close to a dead heat. 5 years later? My money is on Toronto.

Built, U/C, Proposed

# of Buildings 400m+
Chicago 2
Toronto 1

# of Buildings 300-399m
Chicago 6
Toronto 1

# of Buildings 200-299m
Chicago 32
Toronto 36

# of Buildings 100-199m
Chicago 301
Toronto 329

# of Buildings 50-99m
Chicago 651
Toronto 1105
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:09 PM   #1855
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Originally Posted by xtraxxl View Post
As of May 31, 2014, these are the world's top 10 stock markets by market capitalization:

1. NYSE
2. NASDAQ
3. Tokyo Stock Ex
4. London Stock Ex
5. Euronext
6. Hong Kong Stock Ex
7. Shanghai Stock Ex
8. Toronto Stock Ex
9. Frankfurt Stock Ex
10. Six Swiss Ex


Mumbai is not on the top 10 list nor is its market cap 3 trillion USD (it's just under 1.4 trillion actually).
No, xtraxxl, Mumbai today is close to 3 trillion USD total market capitalization.

Here are the numbers as of May 31, 2014:-

1. New York City (NYSE $18917 billion + NASDAQ $6456 billion): $25373 billion
2. Tokyo: $4373 billion
3. London: $3396 billion
4. Amsterdam (Euronext): $3802 billion
5. Hong Kong: $3046 billion
6. Mumbai (BSE $1399 billion + NSE $1396 billion): $2795 billion
7. Shanghai: $2379 billion
8. Toronto: $2218 billion
9. Frankfurt: $1985 billion
10. Sydney: $1465 billion
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:33 PM   #1856
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Check out the Mumbai development thread. That city is going to come out of nowhere and rocket right to the top. It's the New York or Toronto of a rapidly developing nation of 1.4 billion people. It's just a matter of time before the Mumbai skyline hits the big leagues. A mind boggling number of buildings are going up there and there's a ton of money in that city.
Thanks, isaidso. Cities like New York, Shanghai, Chicago, Toronto and Hong Kong - Guangzhou have phenomenal scale as well aesthetically very beautiful skylines. They also have a massive head-start and IMO they will continue being ranked higher than Mumbai even in 2025. Mumbai already has lots of architectural diversity. However, it definitely looks like Mumbai should hit somewhere in the big leagues by 2025. Let's see.

Quote:
Toronto? I crunched the numbers for Toronto and Chicago back in March and it suggests Toronto could pass Chicago well before 2025. Extracted from the SSP database, this is for completed and under construction only. I'm honestly surprised how close it's getting. I've included the CN Tower as it has visual impact despite not being a 'building'.
Toronto's skyline is already very impressive along both directions: Downtown - North York as well as Downtown - Etobicoke lakeshore - Mississauga.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:34 PM   #1857
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I'm having a hard time ranking Toronto above Chicago, be that now or by 2020. Even if all those projects in Toronto get built, the city still lacks in 1. supertalls, 2. aesthetics and 3. quality compared to Chitown which btw is pickung up speed.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:55 PM   #1858
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When I look at Shenzhen, I see a sea of high rises. Not really appealing AS OF NOW. Who knows how it'll look by 2025. As I said, the 60+ 200m buildings u/c can only make or break it's skyline or it wont even make a difference. The skyline is similar to Miami or Panama City but much more dense. I for one am going to count the high rises as part of the skyline, if those areas were much more dense, so would many other people, but since it isnt many people pay no mind to the outer buildings because it isnt as jaw dropping the downtown skyline. It's in the city boundaries, doesnt touch Evanston, why not count it? If you were to take those highrises and put them into the downtown area, then would it count? Or if downtown moved outward, then would it count?
There are many lowrise houses within Chicago city boundary, should those count as part of the skyline? Chicago outside its core area has very few tall buildings because it's population is very, very small compared to other megacities. Even Toronto has more highrise buildings (>100m) than Chicago. So we shouldn't look at suburban photos of Chicago and say the skyline is unappealing. Shanghai has it's particular spots to shoot its best skyline photos, so does Shenzhen, New York and other big cities which have multiple core areas. (Shanghai has Pudong and Puxi, New York has midtown and downtown, Shenzhen has Futian and Nanshan). Rest of the city is irrelevant
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Old July 20th, 2014, 09:58 PM   #1859
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Not really, since when are low rise buildings and suburban homes part of a skyline? Never. Since when have highrises (skyscrapers) been part of a skyline. Always.
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Old July 20th, 2014, 11:19 PM   #1860
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I'm having a hard time ranking Toronto above Chicago, be that now or by 2020. Even if all those projects in Toronto get built, the city still lacks in 1. supertalls, 2. aesthetics and 3. quality compared to Chitown which btw is pickung up speed.
I have Chicago squarely ahead of Toronto too. In 5-6 years I'll likely have to reassess that. A lot can happen by 2019-20. Toronto will have super talls by then, almost certainly a slew of them. Aesthetics is subjective while the quality gap is closing rapidly. I wouldn't count on any of those 3 things being a weakness for Toronto by 2020.

The big question imo isn't whether Toronto can match Chicago by 2020, but whether construction activity can significantly pick up in Chicago. It looks like it is, but in the end it's probably just delaying the inevitable. 20+ years from now I doubt it will be close at all; Toronto's simply on a different trajectory than Chicago.
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