daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 22nd, 2013, 08:05 AM   #61
Gordolfo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 124
Likes (Received): 98

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoser_barcelona View Post
Ok no tram through Barri Gotic but apart from the rest, I would actually say Barcelona is more suited for trams than for instance Amsterdam is. I have lived in both cities now for over 8 years so I have seen what I am talking about and think that we could easily create a bus/tram lane on main thoroughfares and create a grid of trams. More pedestrianized areas, huge parkings at Espanya, Glories and Sarria and create a Tramxample with a London-style Access Tax for Cars..... Sorry, had to retroll.
To be honest, I've never understood the "not enough space" argument when considering trams to supplement surface transportation, seeing how a tram doesn't really take up more space than a pair of bus lanes, but has way more capacity. In the long run tram lines that are heavily used are very economical to operate, even compared to buses, and they're better dealing with heavy usage. Trams evidently can't replace the subways, which are quite necessary in Barcelona, but they could supplement them quite well, seeing how many bus lines have already enough ridership to justify conversion to tram operation. Trams have between 2-3 times the capacity of a bus, and twice that if MUing trams, so if a bus line is at capacity, as is the case with quite a few, a tram line would expand that capacity up to five-fold, if there were the need.

I think one of the main problems to expanding the tram system is that many people in Barcelona have a cultural aversion to trams, they see them as no better than buses, but much more dangerous and disruptive to traffic, or as subways that are slow, small and on the surface. This is also the reason why the trams never run in mixed traffic, not even shared with buses. Being considered a "light subway" can be fine in the suburbs, where there's no demand for a "real" subway, but as "light subway" it could seem out of place in a city as cramped as Barcelona. Once we stop considering the tram line to be less than a subway and instead to be more than a bus then the tram starts to make sense downtown as well as in the perifery. There's no point in considering the tram a "surface subway", even less when running within the city center, but instead it should instead be considered (accepted?) as fulfilling the function of a tram. Evidently you couldn't use a light subway to fulfill a need for a full subway line. Yet, seeing how the city center already has quite a few subway lines (and one more under way), a few tram lines to top it off would seem reasonable. I've never understood this complete aversion to all surface transportation beyond the bus. In a cramped city you'd want to have the means of transport that crams the most people in the least space. There's such a vast difference in what subways and buses offer that it would seem sensible for a medium-sized city like Barcelona to bet on an intermediate step as well, for whenever a bus is not enough and a subway is too much.

Last edited by Gordolfo; August 22nd, 2013 at 08:14 AM.
Gordolfo no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 22nd, 2013, 05:15 PM   #62
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21257

What I think is that, with more subways, the need for either bus lanes or tram ROWs disappear or is greatly reduced, thus you can have more lanes for regular traffic (cars, small trucks etc).
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2013, 04:08 PM   #63
Gordolfo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 124
Likes (Received): 98

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What I think is that, with more subways, the need for either bus lanes or tram ROWs disappear or is greatly reduced, thus you can have more lanes for regular traffic (cars, small trucks etc).
I agree 100%, more subways means less road space needed for public transit. But how are you going to replace all heavily used bus lines with subways? Or better yet: How are you going to pay for that?
Subways are used as trunk lines for urban transportation, the main lines that carry most passengers, along the main corridors. But you can't have a subway for every transport route, you couldn't pay for it. So if you're going to need buses anyway, it would be smarter to replace the most important lines with trams as to offer more capacity on those lines, while taking up the same space (or less) than the bus did, while at the same time being much more attractive to use (the tram is the transport best valued by users, ahead of the subway).
Gordolfo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2013, 04:39 AM   #64
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Pont d┤Esplugues stop.
Served by lines T1, T2 and T3, this is the most central stop at Esplugues de Llobregat.
It is planned that metro L3 will be extended till Pont d┤Esplugues.



Photo by Josep Maria 15 @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)

geometarkv liked this post
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 03:37 AM   #65
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Bon Viatge stop.
Terminus of line T1. Line T2 goes beyond.
Located in Sant Joan DespÝ, not very far from the railway station.
This is the end of the double-tracked section.




Photo by Josep Maria 15 @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)

geometarkv liked this post
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #66
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Some images of old Barcelona trams:

__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2013, 03:18 AM   #67
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Can Jaumandreu stop.
Served by lines T5 and T6, it is located at Gran Via, one of the main avenues in the city, in a high density area.
The sector between this stop and La Farinera is in single track due to lack of space.
The sector between this stop and Bes˛s is double-tracked and underground.



Photo by Netol @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2013, 07:43 PM   #68
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Ciutadella-Vila OlÝmpica stop.
This is the terminus for line T4.

Located right behind the zoo, it is an interchange point with Metro L4.
It is planned that the tram system will be expanded further south to serve Estaciˇ de Franša, the parts of the old town next to the port, the end of the Ramblas, and the ferry terminal at the WTC.



Photo by Andy Mitchell @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2013, 05:21 AM   #69
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Marina stop.
Served by line T4, it is an interchange point with the Metro L1 station of the same name, located nearby.



Photo by Electro07 @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2013, 01:28 AM   #70
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Ernest Lluch stop.
Served by lines T1, T2 and T3, this is the only stop of all the Barcelona tram networks that has three tracks.
In the future it will be an interchange point with Metro L5.

It is also the last stop of the Trambaix network to be opened, in replacement of the old Sant Ramon stop, which was closed because it had a bend that was too narrow and there was the yet unfinished project of the interchange with Metro L5.



Photo by Josep Maria 15 @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #71
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Francesc MaciÓ stop.
Terminus for lines T1, T2 and T3, on a snowy day.


Avinguda Diagonal | Nieve en Barcelona, by Kevin Arguzˇn on Flickr
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 4th, 2013, 10:53 PM   #72
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Ca l┤Aranyˇ stop.
A tram on a T4 service bound for Estaciˇ de Sant AdriÓ.


Photo by Electro07 @ Wikipedia
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2013, 04:36 AM   #73
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Espronceda stop.

This is one of the three underground stops that the Trambaix network has.
It┤s used by lines T5 and T6.
In this video we can see a tram on a T5 service bound for Gorg.

__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #74
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Estaciˇ de Sant AdriÓ stop.

This is the terminus for lines T4 and T6.
It is an interchange point with Rodalies line R1, which is on the right in the first photo, and in the back in the second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post


__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #75
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Trambes˛s depot.

Located between Estaciˇ de Sant AdriÓ and Central TŔrmica del Bes˛s stops.
This is the depot for trams serving lines T4, T5, and T6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post


__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2013, 05:56 PM   #76
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Gorg stop.

This is the terminus for line T5.
It also used to be the terminus for the original line T6, but due to the insecurity trouble on that line (it used to cross two of the most conflictive neighbourhoods in suburban Barcelona), it was modified and doesn┤t get to Gorg anymore.
It has an easy interchange with metro L2 and L10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post






__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #77
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Between Central TŔrmica del Bes˛s and Estaciˇ de Sant AdriÓ stops.

Lines T4 and T6 run trough here.
Line T6 used to run to Gorg from here, but its route was diverted to Gl˛ries via Bes˛s instead, due to the lack of security of the original route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post


__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #78
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Between Sant Joan Baptista and Encants de Sant AdriÓ.

Line T5 runs throuh this sector.
Line T6 used to do too, but it was diverted because of the problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)

Last edited by 437.001; October 15th, 2013 at 08:19 PM.
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2013, 08:29 PM   #79
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Between Sant Joan Baptista and La Catalana stops.

Line T5 runs throuh this sector.
Line T6 used to do too, but it was diverted because of the problems.

Don┤t you ever alight at La Catalana unless you┤re a local or accompanied by a local. La Catalana is a dangerous quarter.

And by the way, it┤s not the area depicted in this pictures, which are taken just off Sant Joan Baptista stop.

View towards La Catalana (which is far away across the bridge, you don┤t see it in the photo) and Barcelona:

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post
View towards Gorg (Badalona), with a 90║ bend:

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlesnuc View Post
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)

geometarkv liked this post
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2014, 05:14 PM   #80
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 32,035
Likes (Received): 15481

Wellington stop.

A tram on a T4 service, bound for Estaciˇ de Sant AdriÓ:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Đu˝oa82 View Post
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat ImpTgn Cat2017
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)

geometarkv liked this post
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium