daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation > Airports

Airports discussions about existing airports



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 31st, 2017, 09:56 AM   #361
z0rg
fok julle naaiers
 
z0rg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Madrid
Posts: 24,768
Likes (Received): 16068

When are they supposed to start the construction of the next phase btw? Any schedule for further terminals or runways?
__________________
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

Zaz965 liked this post
z0rg no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 1st, 2017, 08:47 AM   #362
Short
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lismore
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 170

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
When are they supposed to start the construction of the next phase btw? Any schedule for further terminals or runways?
A fourth runway would involve a lot of engineering work to extend the airport out into the neighbouring valley. So it would not be attempted too soon despite fanciful illustrations showing it.

As for construction of T3B terminal, it remains to be seen how the new T3A will be fully utilised and if the new Chengdu airport, with direct high speed rail putting it about an hour to Chongqing. It will be a factor in passenger numbers using CKG.
Short no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2017, 11:29 AM   #363
z0rg
fok julle naaiers
 
z0rg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Madrid
Posts: 24,768
Likes (Received): 16068

China's pax numbers are supposed to double within 2025, mostly on central and west regions. They better keep working on further extensions so that the available facilities meet the tremendous demand or the airport will be overcrowded once again.
__________________
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

Munwon, Zaz965 liked this post
z0rg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2017, 10:52 AM   #364
Hot Rod
Big City Enthusiast
 
Hot Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Osaka, Chicago, Chongqing, Seattle, and OKC
Posts: 773
Likes (Received): 99

I agree z0rg.

I'm not sure I follow the previous poster's logic regarding Chengdu's new airport and the impact on Chongqing. Was the poster suggesting that Chongqing not build it's air-hub vision to the fullest just because Chengdu is building a new airport? ???

I think Chengdu can do what it wants and Chongqing can do what it wants. Chengdu needs the new airport but I do not see it competing with Chongqing; in fact, I see Chongqing taking the #4 spot in the country (after Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou) for air hubs with Chengdu falling to #5 in the near term. Chengdu may likely recover once the new airport opens, depends upon how they plan to continue utilizing Shuangliu (which IMO they should just close and redevelop).

Clearly, Chongqing needs its new terminals and likely will need T3B sooner than later [and when complete, CKG will exceed 70m pax annual capacity].
__________________

Zaz965 liked this post
Hot Rod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2017, 01:35 PM   #365
zergcerebrates
Registered User
 
zergcerebrates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Guam,Los Angeles
Posts: 2,287
Likes (Received): 62

Very nice airport, someone please post more photos of this new terminal
__________________

Zaz965 liked this post
zergcerebrates no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2017, 03:44 AM   #366
juukeihc
Registered User
 
juukeihc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chongqing
Posts: 184
Likes (Received): 531









__________________

Zaz965, 2mchris, Augustão d2, Munwon, Leeooo and 4 others liked this post
juukeihc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2017, 03:52 AM   #367
juukeihc
Registered User
 
juukeihc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chongqing
Posts: 184
Likes (Received): 531

If you take a right window seat and are lucky enough, when the airplane takes off towards south from the new runway, you can see:


__________________

Zaz965, tius86, bubbalo, 2mchris, Hot Rod and 4 others liked this post
juukeihc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2017, 11:20 AM   #368
Short
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Lismore
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 170

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rod View Post
I agree z0rg.

I'm not sure I follow the previous poster's logic regarding Chengdu's new airport and the impact on Chongqing. Was the poster suggesting that Chongqing not build it's air-hub vision to the fullest just because Chengdu is building a new airport? ???

I think Chengdu can do what it wants and Chongqing can do what it wants. Chengdu needs the new airport but I do not see it competing with Chongqing; in fact, I see Chongqing taking the #4 spot in the country (after Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou) for air hubs with Chengdu falling to #5 in the near term. Chengdu may likely recover once the new airport opens, depends upon how they plan to continue utilizing Shuangliu (which IMO they should just close and redevelop).

Clearly, Chongqing needs its new terminals and likely will need T3B sooner than later [and when complete, CKG will exceed 70m pax annual capacity].
To clarify what I meant, Chengdu and Chongqing draw passengers from across Eastern Sichuan for air travel. However Chengdu dominates international travel by a large margin, compared to Chongqing. The construction of the new Chengdu Airport is set to continue that international route dominance. Chengdu is the city of choice for foreign airlines, being the larger tourist drawcard. Thus it is quite a drawcard for Chongqing to fly through Chengdu, due to the greater number of foreign and Chinese based airlines and routes based there at the moment. This will only increase further with a new Chengdu airport allowing more routes and connected by high speed rail directly to Chongqing.

Also Shuangliu Airport is not destined for closure but will continue operation. It is visioned to operate similarly to Shanghai's Hongqiao Airport, in a more domestic role with future expansion envisioned there too.

While it is simple and easy to build any amount massive infrastructure on the ground, for new terminals and airport (including new domestic airports at Wanzhou etc). The air routes in the skies are congested and there is little appetite to free up appropriate airspace for the increase of flights across SW China. It will be increasingly more difficult to increase the slots for more flights at an expanded airport, unless the size of aircraft on existing routes increases. So the growth in passenger numbers may not fast enough to warrant expansion.

By all means, it is wise and sensible to have Terminal 3B planned for and to be 'shovel ready' as the politicians like to say. However, to be the Devil's Advocate, future challenges can be seen on the horizon, also with the new Terminal 3A only just opened and not fully utilised. All public transport and rail issues have not been finished at the new terminal at the moment for example. The practical solution would be to wait and see before commencing with further expansion.
Short no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #369
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 889
Likes (Received): 186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
The air routes in the skies are congested and there is little appetite to free up appropriate airspace for the increase of flights across SW China. It will be increasingly more difficult to increase the slots for more flights at an expanded airport, unless the size of aircraft on existing routes increases.
It is funny when you look at China on skyvektor for example, it is like a White blob surrounded by spaghetti. I think in the whole world only North Korea has fewer commercial air routes. One wonder what is the problem? It can't be a matter of security since no other country on earth beside North Korea has such a sparse route network.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #370
Hot Rod
Big City Enthusiast
 
Hot Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Osaka, Chicago, Chongqing, Seattle, and OKC
Posts: 773
Likes (Received): 99

Short,

thanks for clarification of what you meant regarding the catchment areas of Chengdu and Chongqing, the difference in international traffic (and preference) between the two in said catchment, and the difference in the two destinations. I agree with most of what you said as true - however, I challenge your primary argument [that Chengdu's new airport will limit Chongqing] with one simple fact - neither Chengdu nor Chongqing have very large international air traffic that would warrant Chongqing to downsize it's airport master plan.

Instead, I argue that Chengdu is building the new airport given capacity and expansion constraints at Shuangliu given the demand for Domestic flights, not a desire to create an International travel hub. Similarly, Chongqing's T3 is being pursued for given capacity/expansion constraints at T2 and the limitations/age of the ancient T1. The difference between the two cities here is CKG has land to build T3 instead of making a new facility elsewhere.

I've flown international at both cities (and domestic into Chengdu) and while Chongqing was at the old T1 and therefore quite a bit smaller, Chengdu's International traffic was similarly quite dead and only used one concourse (of three) of the old T1; which itself actually isn't that much bigger than CKG's T1 terminal.

Both city's International traffic is minuscule compared to both city's domestic; by at least a factor of 10 or more. Most International passengers fly into PEK, PVG, and CAN then connect domestically into CTU and CKG. Additionally, neither city has many local flights to airports in the Sichuan basin and there's not enough International O/D traffic to warrant changing the current setup dominated by the big 3 air hubs (more on this next).

Therefore, since it is domestic traffic which dominates both cities and the combined catchment market; I believe there is enough traffic for both cities to have major airports. There wont be much competition given the size and demand of the domestic market other than what the passenger is willing to pay, how feasible the local infrastructure is to access either city/airport, or by the airline alliance they chose to frequent (more on this next).
Hot Rod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 8th, 2017, 08:19 PM   #371
Hot Rod
Big City Enthusiast
 
Hot Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Osaka, Chicago, Chongqing, Seattle, and OKC
Posts: 773
Likes (Received): 99

I wanted to continue my thought in a new post rather than make a huge single one. I'd like to dig deeper into the two cities and how I suspect this will play out; which will further show the need for both cities' airport master plans.

Chongqing is the larger mega city of the two and is considered a national central city. Chengdu is the more established provincial capital and plays a larger role in the region. This advantage has led to significant FDI in and around Chengdu which itself lends to some premium International business traffic. Chongqing's economy is quite a bit larger and its focus has been nationally but this is rapidly changing as the city matures into a true mega market with significance beyond China.

Chengdu has the better and more established tourism infrastructure and is much closer to most sites in the region, so it will remain the primary tourism destination. Chengdu's advantages have led it to become the #2 air hub for Air China, a Star Alliance member, which along with the Int'l business demand driven by FDI has led to foreign flag carriers in Star Alliance to establish direct fights. There might initially have been subsidy offered to establish these flights but I'd argue there appears to be a happy medium of flights that likely is sustainable today without subsidy since CTU can feed flights with VFR passengers from CA.

However now consider that Chongqing's tourism and worldwide business draw is still largely untapped yet CKG already exceeds 35 million pax a year and that is mostly O/D since it is not a secondary connection hub like CTU is for Star Alliance. Now consider that Chongqing is a mini-hub for China Southern, a prominent SkyTeam alliance member based out of Guangzhou. China Southern doesn't have a secondary connection hub in the interior of China (CZ does have a secondary hub at PEK T2 but this is more a SkyTeam connection INTO Beijing). I believe Chongqing will become to China Southern what Chengdu is to Air China, a secondary connection hub which will feed passengers into growing list of foreign carriers dominated by SkyTeam in CKG's case. If this is true then you also need to consider there is yet another SkyTeam member in China (China Eastern) who also doesn't have a secondary hub but could also grow at CKG capitalizing on SkyTeam presence there.

If the above does indeed become reality, Chengdu would remain the Star Alliance secondary connection hub and #2 airport for Air China (being moved to the new airport) while Chongqing would become the SkyTeam secondary connection hub and at least a significant hub for China Southern (and likely at least a focus city for China Eastern). Chongqing would also likely continue to be a focus city for Air China - put all of this together just from a world alliance prospective and you begin to see that there isn't direct competition between CKG and CTU that would see the new Chengdu airport take away from Chongqing.

In fact, I'd argue that CKG would grow even further since it is generally further away from tourist sites in the region and with SkyTeam growth could support flights to local regional airports (think MianYang and maybe even Nanchong) since flying there would be the easiest for SkyTeam pax to get to those local destinations. Chengdu is simply too close to most tourist areas to justifly growth in flights to those airports and already has established infrastructure connections (rail, road/bus) that shuttles tourists to/from Shuangliu today.

To be honest, I see problems with Chengdu having two airports moreso than Chongqing having problems with the new Chengdu airport. As I mentioned, the traffic and International alliance setup is exclusive to either city - there isn't and wont be cannibalism of passengers since they can be fed into both cities by their own alliance. Shuangliu becomes the outlier in this, perhaps it could remain in operation as as the fortress Sichuan Airlines hub (and maybe Hainan Airlines creates a hub there?? after Air China moves to the new airport). Even then, Sichuan Airlines #2 hub is at CKG T2 - I don't see this changing. Maybe also, Shuangliu becomes the low-fare VFR airport or the 'business' airport; Sichuan/Chengdu doesn't have Shanghai style traffic to warrant two, large airports. Why are they keeping Shuangliu?
Hot Rod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2017, 08:32 AM   #372
saiho
Registered User
 
saiho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 多伦多/多倫多
Posts: 1,361
Likes (Received): 1300

Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
This will only increase further with a new Chengdu airport allowing more routes and connected by high speed rail directly to Chongqing.
Both are large cities that have their respective local demands so they both need large airports. No one would fly to Chengdu just to take HSR to Chongqing. That like saying Washington DC and Boston don't need large airports because they are 300km from New York and we can just build a HSR line between those cities and New York's airports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
So the growth in passenger numbers may not fast enough to warrant expansion.
Passenger numbers grew from 8,050,007 to 35,888,819 in ten years. What is the capacity of the existing T1, T2A and T2B Terminals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
All public transport and rail issues have not been finished at the new terminal at the moment for example. The practical solution would be to wait and see before commencing with further expansion.
I believe Chongqing Metro Line 10 will open this year, serving the new terminal.
__________________

Munwon, Hot Rod liked this post

Last edited by saiho; September 9th, 2017 at 08:58 AM.
saiho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 5th, 2017, 07:07 AM   #373
juukeihc
Registered User
 
juukeihc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Chongqing
Posts: 184
Likes (Received): 531

The 5th phase of expansion will be launched.
The pre-feasibility and feasibility studies for Terminal 3B and the fourth runway are to be conducted in the next several months.

__________________
juukeihc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2017, 04:48 AM   #374
jsnww81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 3

Great to see the next phase of expansion at CKG already in planning. I visited last year, before T3A was completed, and it was clear that a larger terminal complex was needed. T3A was structurally complete across the runways, and it looked incredible. Can't wait to go back and see it in operation.

It does appear that T3B will be a satellite facility, and passengers will check in and claim luggage at T3A, correct?
__________________

Hot Rod liked this post
jsnww81 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2017, 10:06 AM   #375
Hot Rod
Big City Enthusiast
 
Hot Rod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Osaka, Chicago, Chongqing, Seattle, and OKC
Posts: 773
Likes (Received): 99

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnww81 View Post
Great to see the next phase of expansion at CKG already in planning. I visited last year, before T3A was completed, and it was clear that a larger terminal complex was needed. T3A was structurally complete across the runways, and it looked incredible. Can't wait to go back and see it in operation.

It does appear that T3B will be a satellite facility, and passengers will check in and claim luggage at T3A, correct?
I too came in last year into T1, OMG definitely agree with you that T3 is greatly needed!!!!!

And yes, T3B is a sattelite of T3A and will be accessed by it. From the looks of the master plan, it appears they could theoretically make yet another terminal beyond T3B and maybe add a few more piers to the T2 complex.

Anyways, yes - I too am glad they are getting ready to start T3B.
Hot Rod no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
airport, chongqing, jiangbei

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium