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Old August 23rd, 2013, 03:00 AM   #21
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:15 AM   #22
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Bullring Shopping Center in Birmingham.uk

Oh, this is a very nice idea. Long expositions are tricky, but can be rewarding. I usually photograph at sunset/blue hour/night and I have many of long exposures.

Here is a recent photo I took at the Bullring Shopping Center in Birmingham (UK), one of the most photographed buildings in UK. For this shot I went down low in the middle of the street junction and waited for the green light for ongoing traffic, so to add some light trails. Due to a corner, I couldn't really see how much traffic I would get in my 4 sec exposure, but I was lucky enough to have a double deck bus passing by.
Photo was taken in RAW format with a Panasonic Lumix GF-2 and the 14-42mm @ 14mm and f/11, iso 100 and long exposures noise reduction active. Of course the camera was mounted on a tripod (a pocket size tripod...). This is no HDR, but single exposure.

image hosted on flickr
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 06:41 PM   #23
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^ I read if your using a tripod you should turn VR off...
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 08:08 PM   #24
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^ Nonsense. Long exposure shots are all about stability.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 09:51 PM   #25
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@UmarPK you red correctly. @Ni3IS, UmarPK may be right: for what I red, there are two schools about the use of optical stabilization (called OS for Sigma and Panasonic, IS for Canon, VR for Tamron, etc.) Some say is useless if the camera is mounted steadily on a good tripod and some say you should disable it because it could degrade the quality of the photo while trying to compensate vibrations that are not there.

Having said that, optical stabilization was not what I ment when I talked about long exposure noise reduction. Given for granted you need to have your camera stable during the whole time (tripod+remote shutter release/or timer+mirror lock up), there are two sources of noise in long exposures. The first is coming from the use of high ISO and usually camera applies an algorithm to reduce it. I do not use this since I shoot at the lowest possible ISO to keep my exposure time under 30sec (more to come on this). Plus, ISO noise can be easily removed in post production. The second source of noise is coming from the fact that during the recording of the photo, the sensor gets hotter and hotter and you can have the appearance of hot pixels (usually purple) and other defects. Longer the exposure, higher is this amount of noise, and this is why is preferred to keep the exposure time under 30 sec and eventually combine multiple shot of the same image (exposure stacking) to achieve the same results of very longer expositions. If you are familiar with star trails photography, those are usually done combining together a high number of relative short exposure to reduce the number of hot pixels and the amount of noise and artifacts. Usually, it is possible to reduce this noise (and this is the long exposure noise reduction function I was referring to) directly in camera by allowing the camera to take automatically a second exposure of the same duration of the first one, just without opening the curtains, recording a photo that is dark (like if you forget the cap on the lens). In this second image, called dark frame, the sensor's hot pixels and the other defects are the only data recorded and this dark frame is subtracted from the first image to produce a fairly low noise image. The main downside is that the procedure is time consuming (in particular if you take sequences of many photos for HDR or star/light trails); some people (in particular who does astrophotography) prefer to record themselves a single dark frame after having taken all the photo they needed and do the subtraction afterwards as part as the editing.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would have been interesting to share some info and I hope to have been clear enough.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 10:10 PM   #26
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View from Place Poelaert towards Midi station (Brussels.be)

This is, for me, a fairly complex image. Is the combination of a HDR and a long exposure taken using the massive 10-stop B+W ND110 filter to introduce motion in the slow moving panoramic wheel. This last shot, of course, recorded movement in the clouds resulting in a dull sky and that is when I decided to blend the panoramic wheel with a previous HDR of the same scene.

image hosted on flickr

taken by me with Canon 50D + Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 on tripod.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auggiewren View Post
@UmarPK you red correctly. @Ni3IS, UmarPK may be right: for what I red, there are two schools about the use of optical stabilization (called OS for Sigma and Panasonic, IS for Canon, VR for Tamron, etc.) Some say is useless if the camera is mounted steadily on a good tripod and some say you should disable it because it could degrade the quality of the photo while trying to compensate vibrations that are not there.

Having said that, optical stabilization was not what I ment when I talked about long exposure noise reduction. Given for granted you need to have your camera stable during the whole time (tripod+remote shutter release/or timer+mirror lock up), there are two sources of noise in long exposures. The first is coming from the use of high ISO and usually camera applies an algorithm to reduce it. I do not use this since I shoot at the lowest possible ISO to keep my exposure time under 30sec (more to come on this). Plus, ISO noise can be easily removed in post production. The second source of noise is coming from the fact that during the recording of the photo, the sensor gets hotter and hotter and you can have the appearance of hot pixels (usually purple) and other defects. Longer the exposure, higher is this amount of noise, and this is why is preferred to keep the exposure time under 30 sec and eventually combine multiple shot of the same image (exposure stacking) to achieve the same results of very longer expositions. If you are familiar with star trails photography, those are usually done combining together a high number of relative short exposure to reduce the number of hot pixels and the amount of noise and artifacts. Usually, it is possible to reduce this noise (and this is the long exposure noise reduction function I was referring to) directly in camera by allowing the camera to take automatically a second exposure of the same duration of the first one, just without opening the curtains, recording a photo that is dark (like if you forget the cap on the lens). In this second image, called dark frame, the sensor's hot pixels and the other defects are the only data recorded and this dark frame is subtracted from the first image to produce a fairly low noise image. The main downside is that the procedure is time consuming (in particular if you take sequences of many photos for HDR or star/light trails); some people (in particular who does astrophotography) prefer to record themselves a single dark frame after having taken all the photo they needed and do the subtraction afterwards as part as the editing.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would have been interesting to share some info and I hope to have been clear enough.
The system is there to compensate vibrations. If there are no vibrations, it won't 'try' to compensate anything, it won't do anything either. So you might as well leave it on, defenitely in case of strong winds for example. Furthermore, it would be stupid to put a function on a camera that could in any way degrade the quality of images. I sold camera's and accesoires for over a year at a Camera store as a sidejob. I've attended multiple product training nights and info sessions by companies like Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. Not one time anything like this was mentioned. I have been shooting long exposure images since 2010 and always with IS/VR 'on' and never had any quality issues because of it. My 2 cents are that it's just a dumb rumor called into life by someone who 'thinks' that his long exposure images look better with IS/VR turned off. I just do my own thing instead of listening and reading nonsense about photography online.
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Old August 23rd, 2013, 11:52 PM   #28
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Nothing against you or anything, just my opinion and view on the subject
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[2017] > Düsseldorf, Mallorca, Geneva, Annecy, Montafon, Vorarlberg, Barcelona, Zürich, Crete, Lisbon, Cascais, Málaga, Ronda, Dolomiti, Sistiana, Kitzbühel
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Old August 24th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #29
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Baltimore Inner Harbor by UmarPK, on Flickr


Took this recently, went out at night...
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Old August 24th, 2013, 01:21 AM   #30
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image hosted on flickr

One Canada Square at Night / London, UK by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr

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Burberry / Knightsbridge, London by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr

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London Eye Pier / Westminster, London by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr

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BIG BEN / London by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr
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Old August 24th, 2013, 08:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ni3lS View Post
Nothing against you or anything, just my opinion and view on the subject
no problem, I remove it if I remember, if not... then it stays on and I haven't noticed something wrong on the photos. That's why I said there are two schools here and I don't know who is right. but if you follow this link you will read the opinion of Canon on the use of IS and tripod, which I quote here:
Quote:
Canon’s Chuck Westfall explains it well:
“The IS mechanism operates by correcting shake. When there is no shake, or when the level of shake is below the threshold of the system’s detection capability, use of the IS feature may actually *add* unwanted blur to the photograph, therefore you should shut it off in this situation. Remember that the IS lens group is normally locked into place. When the IS function is active, the IS lens group is unlocked so it can be moved by the electromagnetic coil surrounding the elements. When there’s not enough motion for the IS system to detect, the result can sometimes be a sort of electronic ‘feedback loop,’ somewhat analogous to the ringing noise of an audio feedback loop we’re all familiar with. As a result, the IS lens group might move while the lens is on a tripod, unless the IS function is switched off and the IS lens group is locked into place.”
and this concept is written on the manual that come with stabilized lenses as well. But may be it applies only to Canon.

Far more important of this is manual focusing VS AF, for example. I always use manual focus combined with live view when I do long exposures using tripod. but this is another story.

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Old August 24th, 2013, 08:46 AM   #32
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St Martin in the Bullring (birmingham.uk)

To add about the querelle IS on/OFF... I just checked the options of the lumix and realized the stabilization was on all time and, despite the use of tripod, didn't observe nothing wrong with the photos from my last two days in Birmingham... as you can see here.

image hosted on flickr

taken by me with Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF2 and 14-42 megaOS lens @ 14mm f/11. HDR from 5 expositions 2/3EV apart in the range -1 1/3 to +1 1/3EV
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Old August 24th, 2013, 09:11 AM   #33
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Inside the Aulne Abbey's Ruins (Belgium)

This old, dusty room was very very dark, but some light could come in from the front doors and windows. This is HDR on 3 exposures taken at -2EV,0 and 2EV (this is the long exposure.. about 30sec). Then the dynamic range has been extended in post production and all exposures combined together.

image hosted on flickr

taken by me wth Canon 50D+sigma 10-20 f/4-5.6 @ f/11 and 10mm
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Old August 24th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #34
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wow this is a very beautiful shot...
Thank you!
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Old August 24th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auggiewren View Post
Oh, this is a very nice idea. Long expositions are tricky, but can be rewarding. I usually photograph at sunset/blue hour/night and I have many of long exposures.

Here is a recent photo I took at the Bullring Shopping Center in Birmingham (UK), one of the most photographed buildings in UK. For this shot I went down low in the middle of the street junction and waited for the green light for ongoing traffic, so to add some light trails. Due to a corner, I couldn't really see how much traffic I would get in my 4 sec exposure, but I was lucky enough to have a double deck bus passing by.
Photo was taken in RAW format with a Panasonic Lumix GF-2 and the 14-42mm @ 14mm and f/11, iso 100 and long exposures noise reduction active. Of course the camera was mounted on a tripod (a pocket size tripod...). This is no HDR, but single exposure.

image hosted on flickr
Really nice photo of this great building. I've seen many pictures of the Bullring Shopping Center but the composition and mood on yours are unique. Very appealing shot.
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Old August 24th, 2013, 03:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperbird View Post
Really nice photo of this great building. I've seen many pictures of the Bullring Shopping Center but the composition and mood on yours are unique. Very appealing shot.

Thank you, appreciated
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Old August 25th, 2013, 12:44 AM   #37
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Embankment Snow / London, UK by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr

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London Skyline from North London / London UK by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr

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A London Postcard? / London, UK by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr
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[2017] > Düsseldorf, Mallorca, Geneva, Annecy, Montafon, Vorarlberg, Barcelona, Zürich, Crete, Lisbon, Cascais, Málaga, Ronda, Dolomiti, Sistiana, Kitzbühel

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Old August 25th, 2013, 05:36 AM   #38
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here are a few I did recently:





at the Blue Hour:





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Old August 25th, 2013, 08:03 AM   #39
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Nice photos of Toronto, at what time at night did you shoot those photos?
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Old August 25th, 2013, 08:17 AM   #40
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London Skyline from North London / London UK by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr

A London Postcard? / London, UK by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr
those are spectacular
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