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Old July 29th, 2013, 02:56 PM   #1
italystf
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Dangerous intersections

This thread is about dangerous intersections on busy roads. I think an intersection is dangerous when it may look like that you have the priority when you didn't.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...241.86,,0,3.02
For example here you have a very small roundabout on a 4 lane urban boulevard, build where there used to be a normal intersection. Distract people can not notice the roundabout (the side roads have little traffic and most times you pass the roundabout without stopping) and going straight when a car is coming from the left. The Italian highway code says that you must put the right turn indicator when you exit a roundabout. In that case it mean that you have to put the right turn indicator to go straight on the main road, but people behind you may think that you are turning right. This happens because the roundabout is too small and its 1st (right) and 2nd (straight) exits are too close each other.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...140.07,,0,6.49
Here, unlikely elsewhere in Italy, cars that enter the roundabout have the priority. I don't know why.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...&cbp=12,0,,0,0
Here it seems that the road continues straight, while in reality you have to stop and give priority to those who came from the right. This intersection isn't absolutely lit at night.
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Old July 29th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #2
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Borja is known by two things: The Ecce Homo and this stop sign right in the middle of the main road (N-122). One has to stop and give way for cars coming from town center. And the main road is used by many trucks...
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Old July 29th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #3
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It is the only stop signal in Spain where a national road gives way to a local street
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Old July 29th, 2013, 11:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
This thread is about dangerous intersections on busy roads. I think an intersection is dangerous when it may look like that you have the priority when you didn't.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...241.86,,0,3.02
For example here you have a very small roundabout on a 4 lane urban boulevard, build where there used to be a normal intersection. Distract people can not notice the roundabout (the side roads have little traffic and most times you pass the roundabout without stopping) and going straight when a car is coming from the left. The Italian highway code says that you must put the right turn indicator when you exit a roundabout. In that case it mean that you have to put the right turn indicator to go straight on the main road, but people behind you may think that you are turning right. This happens because the roundabout is too small and its 1st (right) and 2nd (straight) exits are too close each other.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...140.07,,0,6.49
Here, unlikely elsewhere in Italy, cars that enter the roundabout have the priority. I don't know why.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...&cbp=12,0,,0,0
Here it seems that the road continues straight, while in reality you have to stop and give priority to those who came from the right. This intersection isn't absolutely lit at night.
The first pic is straight forward. The pavement markings give you your clues (including the one partly hidden by the car passing over it). Unless you're turning, you don't need to use your indicators. I'd just keep to the right side of the lane and keep going, where the arrow indicates "straight ahead".

The second pic, is a rotary, which has different rules than a roundabout. In a rotary, traffic already in the circle, gives way to traffic entering. In a roundabout, the rules are reversed. Drivers give way to traffic already in the circle.

The third pic is obvious (to me anyway). the main road curves off to the right in the pic. There is an advance warning that you must stop 100 m down the road.

http://goo.gl/maps/Nr0lf
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Old July 30th, 2013, 12:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
The first pic is straight forward. The pavement markings give you your clues (including the one partly hidden by the car passing over it). Unless you're turning, you don't need to use your indicators. I'd just keep to the right side of the lane and keep going, where the arrow indicates "straight ahead".

The second pic, is a rotary, which has different rules than a roundabout. In a rotary, traffic already in the circle, gives way to traffic entering. In a roundabout, the rules are reversed. Drivers give way to traffic already in the circle.

The third pic is obvious (to me anyway). the main road curves off to the right in the pic. There is an advance warning that you must stop 100 m down the road.

http://goo.gl/maps/Nr0lf
1st pic: the roundabout is far too small for a road with a such volume of traffic.

2nd pic: in Italy we always use roundabouts, virtually never rotaries (at least since the 90s), so I don't see the point to have a rotary there.

3rd pic: this junction isn't lit at night (and all major junctions should be) and when you approach it you may notice the STOP too late. For traffic reasons, 99% of drivers passing this STOP go straight (if you turn right you end where you started). Both roads have the same importance, I would have given the priority to the straight one, like it happens in most T intersections.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; July 30th, 2013 at 12:51 AM.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 12:48 AM   #6
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https://maps.google.it/maps?q=monfal...117.53,,1,6.04
When you're travelling straight on the SS14 (direction W -> E) you have to give the priority to those merging from the SR305 from the left. In this place it would be better to have a standard roundabout.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 11:28 AM   #7
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I don't know all the roads in my country, but in Bratislava, this is often considered as the most dangerous intersection. It is level crossing in fact.
http://goo.gl/maps/BtQsd

The main street is quite frequent, therefore the traffic congestions often occur there. Cars from the minor street turning right have always problems to get to the main street. In case of congestions, cars on major street do not enter the level crossing if they are sure there will be no place to leave it. Due to really bad drivers' discipline, the only chance for cars from minor street how to get to the main road is to use the gap on level crossing. It literally means they must stick on the level crossing till the congestion move on.

The second problem was related to drivers from main street who wanted to turn left to minor street. Due to congestions in opposite direction, they often blocked entire lane and cars behind them stuck on the level crossing as well. Fortunately, the turning left from that direction become prohibited since the accident of bus with train.

The intersection is very unclear for even domestic drivers. Pedestrian crossings, bad outlook to other directions, level crossing etc.

The alternative overpass is being built so this level crossing and intersection is about to be closed

some pictures from accidents:


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Old July 30th, 2013, 11:55 AM   #8
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This intersection is one of the most dangerous in Spain. Plans to make it grade-separated are just awaiting funding, but this could take ages.

As you see, one of the lanes in the roundabout have a "give way" sign, whereas cars coming from the bridge have priority. In some lanes, turning is mandatory. Traffic volumes are also very high, as this intersection is the de facto interchange between A-2 and C-32 motorways. Plus, there's a great deal of heavy traffic driving to the industrial estates in Sant Boi.
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Old July 30th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=lignan...140.07,,0,6.49
Here, unlikely elsewhere in Italy, cars that enter the roundabout have the priority. I don't know why.
This because the Italian Highway code didn't specify a general rule of give-way in a roundabout, that can be "all'italiana" (italian way) or "alla francese" (french way), or also mixed!!
The case that you post is an "italian way" roundabout (old system, vehicle in the roundabout give way to vehicle entering)
I didn't know that in english there is two different type of name for the type of roundabout/rotary...

Last edited by Autobahn-mann; July 30th, 2013 at 01:20 PM. Reason: grammatical corrections
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Old July 30th, 2013, 01:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autobahn-mann View Post
This because the Italian Highway code didn't specify a general rule of give-way in a roundabout, that can be "all'italiana" (italian way) or "alla francese" (french way), or also mixed!!
The case that you post is an "italian way" roundabout (old system, vehicle in the roundabout give way to vehicle entering)
I didn't know that in english there is two different type of name for the type of roundabout/rotary...
Roundabout rules is the thing that should be unified at least within Europe. In Slovakia, round-about de jure does not exists. Basically, it is just set of small T- or Y - shaped interchanges. Therefore, in case of missing priority signs, cars on roundabout are supposed to give way from right - thus to cars entering the roundabout. Fortunately, every roundabout is equipped by priority signs.

I don't know how it works in other countries, but I've been told that Slovakia is only "medieval" country in Europe with roundabout defined in above-mentioned way.

Obviously, it is very good business for signposts manufacturer, since every roundabout is equipped at least 3x by yield sign, 3x by main-road sign and 3x by mandatory sign (determining the right way of traffic).
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Old July 30th, 2013, 09:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL View Post
Borja is known by two things: The Ecce Homo and this stop sign right in the middle of the main road (N-122). One has to stop and give way for cars coming from town center. And the main road is used by many trucks...
Sometimes you must wait there for 10 minutes and people stopped at the "yield" opposite you make gestures to encourage you to turn left when some big truck is coming.
I call it "the gates of hell".
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Old July 30th, 2013, 10:08 PM   #12
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Oslo, Norway.

https://www.google.com/maps?q=Oslo,+...221.93,,0,1.87

No on- or offramps at all, just straight onto the grade separated, four lane highway. There is no similar junctions along the road either, yet they have not bothered to put a warning sign indicated it.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 12:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galro View Post
Oslo, Norway.

https://www.google.com/maps?q=Oslo,+...221.93,,0,1.87

No on- or offramps at all, just straight onto the grade separated, four lane highway. There is no similar junctions along the road either, yet they have not bothered to put a warning sign indicated it.
There's a similar road close to Barcelona. These (there was more than one) junctions were removed 5 years ago, they were scattered all over the road as it was engulfed by urban expansion. As you can see, there is even a variable message sign telling drivers which lanes were open at the moment they entered the road (in special days, such as holidays, one south- or northbound lane could be operated the other way round, or vice versa; there was a stoplight to regulate traffic at the only exit that could be taken by cars driving on the "wrong" carriageway).

There are still a couple of these "T" junctions left, but 5 years ago every street had direct access to the highway.
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