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Old November 19th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #2561
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I'm not sure if anyone remembers it, but its worth a shot. If I recall correctly, about 2003/2004 and that time period there was this london underground game That I played (in school when we were bored :p ) which was available on the TFL site. It then suddenly vanished and I have never managed to find it. iirc it was to do with controlling underground trains and to control a train to line up with the platform and such. Thats all I remember from it tbh
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Old November 19th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #2562
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Aww, thank you, SO143 BTW, I wanted to post the following one that I ended up hearing earlier this week (in light of the movie release), but the accompanying interview revealed Kermie's voice utterly substituted


Deb bie Ha rry rocks when she does(/did?)

By the way, I found the fuddy duddies so fascinating in the history Parts ... it's re-refreshing to see public speaking unfettered by today's banal sanitisation, when folks were truly freer at thinking.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #2563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
While not having 60-year-old suspension means the ride quality is better than A stock, the seats have far less cushioning, and from out in the zones that used to not be numbered it starts to be noticeable that the chair you are sitting on isn't that nice to sit on for long.

They are far from plush.
There is nothing wrong with the seats, they're certainly far more comfortable than those on the Overground.
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One imagines that leisure travellers from Rickmansworth out will start to use timetables more and make sure they go on Chiltern trains and avoid the Met. This is exacerbated by the move to have off-peak Met trains run semi-fast, rather than fast, from next month.
Good, more space for the vast majority of passengers who live in London.

I'm sick of the whinging about the S stock from those out in the HCs who use the Met and who represent a fraction of the overall users. The reality is the A-stock was a poor experience for the vast majority of passengers, it had a crap layout which made it more crowded than it needed to be and was a right pain. The new trains are far more spacious and far more comfortable when packed. I've been on them plenty of times during peak periods and the improvement in the journey experience is considerable. I'm glad Tfl has put Londoners' needs first for once.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #2564
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Originally Posted by kerouac1848 View Post
There is nothing wrong with the seats, they're certainly far more comfortable than those on the Overground.
Have you sat on one for 40 minutes or more? That they are better than other new seats doesn't mean that they are as good as they can be (and doing so wouldn't have meant a different layout or anything like that).
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Good, more space for the vast majority of passengers who live in London.
There's space enough off-peak anyway.
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I'm sick of the whinging about the S stock from those out in the HCs who use the Met and who represent a fraction of the overall users.
Most of them are from Northwood, which is in the London borough of Harrow.

I make that fraction of Met line users for whom S stock's seats lower their comfort roughly half (adding up those Pinner and northwards and Ruislip Manor and westwards - those who lose out on seats in the peak and/or have a long enough journey for the seats to be noticably uncomfortable). Of course, a lot of them will keep quiet, as the new trains aren't 50 years old and falling apart - they gain from the trains being new.

What's happened is that, in the face of legit complaints from zone 4, is that the mistake of A stock being designed for the zone 6+ users at the expense of the people of Northwick Park, Preston Road and Wembley has been 'rectified' by designing the S stock for the users of those three stations at the expense of the those who do travel from zone 6. For many of those (ie not Northwood, Northwood Hills, etc who've lost their seats) it's simply a matter of more comfortable seats - which doesn't have any disbenefits to those further down the line, but they didn't do it as who cares about those who aren't London - after all it's not like they pay a higher fare or anything - oh wait they do!
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The reality is the A-stock was a poor experience for the vast majority of passengers, it had a crap layout which made it more crowded than it needed to be and was a right pain.
Vast majority is massively overstating the case - in fact majority probably is too.
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The new trains are far more spacious and far more comfortable when packed.
For those who aren't sitting, or were sitting on A stock, but now can't due to less seats, yes.
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I've been on them plenty of times during peak periods and the improvement in the journey experience is considerable.
A lot of that is due to the suspension. The journey experience I've found at peak times is a mixed bag - some elements are better, some are worse and it ends up with S stock only being better due to being new for most passengers.
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I'm glad Tfl has put Londoners' needs first for once.
When have TfL and their predecessors every favoured the home counties over Londoners, other than possibly one time when they drew up the design for A stock's interior? Or do you mean Inner Londoners, as opposed to Outer Londoners (who lost the most with the transition to S stock, so actually the seats in A stock were really about Outer Londoners being able to have one)?

The timetable change to remove fast trains isn't about benefiting Londoners (other than via secondary effects), it's about not making their service into London worse, while reducing the service to people in those places where people can't vote for mayor and thus no political fall out.

Last edited by sotonsi; November 20th, 2011 at 05:56 PM.
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Old November 20th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #2565
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HCs
1. hardcover
2. hazardous cargo
3. Holy Communion
4. House of Commons


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Originally Posted by kerouac1848 View Post
the A-stock was a poor experience
They were packed in the '70s and '80s yet there was some je-ne-sais-quoi about their mood, ambience ... and they're fast to boot!
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Old November 20th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #2566
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Have you sat on one for 40 minutes or more? That they are better than other new seats doesn't mean that they are as good as they can be (and doing so wouldn't have meant a different layout or anything like that).
I've sat for around 30 mins and it was fine, I'd be surprised if I got uncomfortable with an additional 10mins or so.

We'll probably never agree on this but for me the seats are fine, better than the central or overground and virtually all metro systems which use hard plastic seats.
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Most of them are from Northwood, which is in the London borough of Harrow.
Northwood is on the boundary of London/Hertfordshire, it's practically a HC's area, and complaints have been made by all north of Moor Park, esp. Chesham and Amersham. It's also in the borough of Hillingdon, not Harrow.

Since the seating layout was announced several years ago there has been moaning from those based in Zone 6 onwards, despite the fact they benefit from emptier trains during the morning and an additional 5/6 Aylesbury services during the peak hours, giving them more (and larger) trains than most suburbs their size and distance from central London. The layout for the Met features more seats than other lines using the S stock, so it's not as if they ignored finding a balance.

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What's happened is that, in the face of legit complaints from zone 4, is that the mistake of A stock being designed for the zone 6+ users at the expense of the people of Northwick Park, Preston Road and Wembley has been 'rectified' by designing the S stock for the users of those three stations at the expense of the those who do travel from zone 6. For many of those (ie not Northwood, Northwood Hills, etc who've lost their seats) it's simply a matter of more comfortable seats - which doesn't have any disbenefits to those further down the line, but they didn't do it as who cares about those who aren't London - after all it's not like they pay a higher fare or anything - oh wait they do!
I'd add all users from HotH to Zone 1, not just the three zone 4 stations. Don't underestimate how many people embark from Finchely Road to Farringdon, the numbers are large. More than twice as many passengers use FR alone as all the stations between Amersham and Chorelywood. Even if you say half use the jubilee, that's still near to as many in that one zone 2 stations as all those zone 7-9 ones. Preston Road serves almost 3 million a year, way more than some zone 6-9 stations.

The reality is they can't please everyone, the line goes too far out so Tfl have to be utilitarian to a large degree. As such they have to make a choice and given that; a) there are more people from HotH to zone 1 and those stations serve, on average, larger catchment areas; b) those from zone 6 onwards already have some benefits as I outlined above, I think their choice was completely logical.

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Vast majority is massively overstating the case - in fact majority probably is too. For those who aren't sitting, or were sitting on A stock, but now can't due to less seats, yes.A lot of that is due to the suspension.
It was poor from HotH southwards, and those passengers constitute the majority as I stated above. The loading time for passengers was incredibly slow, esp. at the zone 1 stations and FR. Everytime someone came on with a buggy, luggage, etc it was a nightmare. Given that more people stood and standing was more uncomfortable on the A stock I don't think it is wrong to say it was the majority (coupled with more users in the those areas). Vast majority may have been me implying hyperbolic language though i admit.
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The journey experience I've found at peak times is a mixed bag - some elements are better, some are worse and it ends up with S stock only being better due to being new for most passengers.When have TfL and their predecessors every favoured the home counties over Londoners, other than possibly one time when they drew up the design for A stock's interior? Or do you mean Inner Londoners, as opposed to Outer Londoners (who lost the most with the transition to S stock, so actually the seats in A stock were really about Outer Londoners being able to have one)?
I live in outer London and grew up, technically, in outer london.

For me, the experience is a lot better largely because I can stand with a degree of space I could never have on the A stock due to the layout. The smoother movement helps of course as well.

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The timetable change to remove fast trains isn't about benefiting Londoners (other than via secondary effects), it's about not making their service into London worse, while reducing the service to people in those places where people can't vote for mayor and thus no political fall out.
But they have 5/6 Aylesbury services tbf, some of the stations north of NotH have fewer than 500k entry/exits annually. Don't forget some money to Tfl comes from the GLA, paid for by London residents and business. No businesses outside the capital are paying towards crossrail via the levy, even if they directly benefit from the line (not to do with this point granted).

Imo they should have stopped all trains at Wembley Park instead of removing fast services because the numbers are the largest after zones 1 and 2 and you get an imbalanced service. Stand at FR and you'll see a semi-full fast train and then a packed Uxbridge, you could spread the load better without worsening the fast services due to the greater performance of the new stock (followed by signal improvements).
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Old November 20th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #2567
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1. hardcover
2. hazardous cargo
3. Holy Communion
4. House of Commons


Define (gentle reminder: you're writing in an international forum ).
Sorry, HC = Home Counties, the county's that encircle London (its suburbs)

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They were packed in the '70s and '80s yet there was some je-ne-sais-quoi about their mood, ambience ... and they're fast to boot!
I think their speed partly was down to the long-gaps between many stops.
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Old November 21st, 2011, 12:02 AM   #2568
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Home Counties
Oh right!
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 07:07 PM   #2569
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Latest figures show ‘continued trend of improved Tube reliability’

Figures published yesterday by Transport for London (TfL) show that train services on London Underground (LU) have continued to improve as the number of people using the Tube increases.

The figures for the four week period from 21 August to 17 September, published by TfL, show that the ‘number of track failures fell by 15 per cent against the same period last year and are at their lowest level for the period since 2003/04 – having reduced by 57 per cent since then’.

Delays as measured by Lost Customer Hours have ‘fallen by nearly 47 per cent’ since 2003/04 when the programme of Tube upgrades began.

LU operated 96.8 per cent of scheduled kms in the four-week period, meaning that the Tube has met service reliability targets in each of the first six four-week periods in 2011/12.

This continuing long-term trend of improving reliability has seen LU operate 97.1 per cent of scheduled services so far this year.

Unplanned station closures fell by more than 26 per cent from the previous four-week period, while signal and point-related failures dropped by 13 per cent, mirroring the decrease seen over the five previous periods.

...
http://www.rail.co/2011/11/22/latest...e-reliability/
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 07:15 PM   #2570
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Central line trains to be ‘overhauled’ for 2012 Games

Passengers using the Central line will ‘soon begin to benefit from a rejuvenation of their carriages’, TfL has said. After 19 years in service the current fleet of trains is being ‘revamped to bring passengers cleaner, more comfortable trains to serve the next generation of passengers and beyond’.

The overhaul of the fleet includes replacing 4,060 windows, replacing the side panels that make up the outside of the trains, and covering 23,144 seats with a new fabric. The outside of every carriage on all 85 trains in the fleet will also be coated with a protective film that will make them easier to clean.

As part of the upgrade works the gearboxes and their housings have been modified, as have the frames which house the wheels and axles. That work will improve the reliability of the trains and should mean the trains will be able to travel greater distances before experiencing a fault.

The work should ‘potentially increase the distance Central line trains can travel before experiencing a fault by around another 1,000 kilometres’. The trains are being worked on in pairs so ‘as not to affect normal services’.

The work will cost £27m and the entire fleet will be complete before the Olympic and Paralympic Games next year, in readiness for an influx of passengers that will be heading to and from Stratford.

Peter Tollington, Central line Manager, said: “We are going to greatly improve the look of our trains and make them as comfortable as possible for commuters and visitors to the Olympic Park.”

London-based design company Wallace Sewell’s blue and red ‘moquette’ fabric is inspired by London landmarks.
http://www.rail.co/2011/11/21/centra...or-2012-games/
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 08:13 PM   #2571
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Northern line platforms to reopen at Tottenham Court Road

Northern line platforms at Tottenham Court Road will reopen on Monday 28 November after eight months of behind-the-scenes work to make it possible to build new access routes, new staircases and a lift. When complete in 2016, station capacity will dramatically increase as part of the major station upgrade.

During the closure, since April 2011, a team of more than 100 people have been working around the clock to complete the critical structural works, involving the installation of more than 1,000 tonnes of new steel tunnel sections.

The work prepares the way for the full station upgrade which will transform the station by 2016 with increased capacity, new entrances and step free access.

David Waboso, Capital Programmes Director, said: “We would like to thank passengers for their patience whilst the Northern line platforms have been closed. There is still further work to be done behind the scenes at the station and passengers will notice that the platforms only have a temporary render finish on the walls.

“Our priority has been to reopen the platforms as soon as the heavy civil engineering works were completed and they could be used safely by customers. As works to upgrade the station continue, we ask passengers to continue to bear with us.”

The £500m station upgrade is part of the Tube upgrade plan to ease congestion, improve accessibility and provide direct interchange with Crossrail services when they arrive in 2018.

When Tottenham Court Road was built over 100 years ago, it was not designed to be used by the 147,000 people that now use it daily, or the 200,000 plus daily users expected when Crossrail comes to the station in 2018.

As part of the Tube upgrade plan, London Underground is transforming the station to:

- Increase the size of the ticket hall by nearly six times

- Introduce step free access from street to platform

- Provide four new or modernised entrances

- Deliver new escalators and improved interchanges between platforms

- Connect with a new Crossrail ticket hall at Dean Street.
http://www.rail.co/2011/11/22/northe...am-court-road/
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:47 PM   #2572
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Firms wanted for £500m Bank Tube station upgrade

London Underground has started the search for firms to carry out the ambitious remodelling of Bank Station in the City of London. The Bank Station capacity upgrade project will create a new ticket hall at surface level.

The successful bidder will also carry out tunnelling work to divert the southbound Northern line running tunnel and build a new southbound platform to the south-west of the existing platforms.

Bank is one of busiest and most complex interchange stations on the network, in the vicinity of busy road junctions and through routes for traffic, next to several Grade 1 listed properties. The ambitious job to raise capacity at the crowded station has between given a price tag of anywhere between £250m and £500m.

London Underground is calling for expressions of interest early in the process to allow the selected firm or consortium to plug its engineering expertise into initial designs. The winning bidder will be brought on board in the Summer of 2013 with a timetable to start works in 2015 for completion at the end of 2021.

Richard Parry, London Underground’s strategy & commercial director, said: “Currently the Northern line platforms at Bank in particular suffer severe congestion during morning and evening peak times, which will get worse as passenger numbers grow.

“This major project to re-tunnel the Northern line at Bank, making more spacious platform areas, with a new entrance on King William Street and four high capacity lifts will relieve congestion at the station and provide step-free access for the Northern line platforms.”

Firms interested in bidding for the huge underground project have until 19 December to submitted expressions of interest to [email protected]
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...ation-upgrade/
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:56 PM   #2573
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For a remodelling job, ain't that mighty pricey, even if the interchange covers six or so lines?
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Old November 24th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #2574
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We don't know how thorough the upgrade will be, what kind of materials will they use...
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Old November 24th, 2011, 08:32 PM   #2575
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Old November 24th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #2576
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Plans for wave-pay Tube tickets don't convince pols

Many passengers are concerned about the data security and safety aspect of Transport for London's (TfL's) plans to introduce contactless ticketing, and the project may not deliver the financial savings expected, the London assembly's transport committee has concluded.

In a report titled, The Future of Ticketing, the committee says the results of a survey it carried out in conjunction with consumer firm Which? showed that passengers were concerned about the safety of their data.

Will Judge, head of future ticketing at TfL, had told the committee in an evidence session in September that the contactless cards would be "100% safe" and that fraudsters would not be able to extract confidential information from a person's contactless bank card or other compatible technology as the type of data held on such cards will be restricted. In its report, the committee says that despite this, negative perceptions of this technology might still be a barrier to the take up of the new scheme.

The committee also warns that wave and pay ticketing must be fair to all passengers and not disadvantage those who choose to stick to Oyster cards. It says that while some passengers may welcome using a contactless bank card to pay for travel, the one in five people who do not have a credit or debit card could miss out on cheaper fares offered on the contactless system.

Caroline Pidgeon, chair of the transport committee, said: "It's only right that Transport for London is looking to new technologies to enhance its ticketing offer, but many passengers are sceptical about using bank cards as tickets, and others simply won't be able to.

...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11...says_committe/
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Old November 25th, 2011, 12:06 AM   #2577
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Old November 25th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #2578
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Blue lights and siren: it's a Tube engineer on a 2012 emergency

Tube engineers will be rushed across London by police cars with their sirens blaring in a bid to keep trains moving during the Olympics. Transport for London emergency responders will be given "blue-light status" to greatly decrease the time it takes to fix a failed train.

For the first time, Tube engineers carrying vital tools and components will be able to cut through heavy central London traffic as if they were an emergency service. Tube bosses today said the move will transform the transport network and "dramatically improve reliability and response times".

Under the plans British Transport Police vehicles will either escort a Transport for London vehicle or pick up engineers to ferry them to the site of a failure.

London Underground managing director Mike Brown told the Standard: "Our ability to get the right person and component [to a failed Tube train] has occasionally been hampered by traffic. We are working with the BTP to trial blue-light response for our engineers. "Traffic can cause very serious delays. It's about urgency and getting things moving as quickly as possible."

The project is being tested now and is expected to be rolled out in February next year. Mr Brown added: "I'm absolutely sure that we've got all the bits lined up to get us in the best possible place for the Olympics.

"This is a huge challenge but I have no doubt that London's transport system will be a part of the success of the Games." He added: "This is about being properly linked to the emergency services. It is using commonsense thinking to deal with problems."

The London Assembly's transport committee chairman Caroline Pidgeon today welcomed the move. She said: "We've got to keep the Tube going through the Games more than at any other time. London's reputation depends on it. If doing that means giving engineers blue light status then I am all for it. Anything that gets the Tube working more quickly can only be a good thing."

Transport expert Tony Travers said: "This shows an admirable commitment to speeding up repairs but it shows that the system is still suffering from failures and breakdowns. It would be much better not to have the need for use of blue lights in the first place."

Mr Brown revealed the plans at TfL's Reliability Lab in Acton, where about 350 engineers are working around the clock to improve Tube performance before the Olympics.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...2-emergency.do
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Old November 25th, 2011, 06:59 PM   #2579
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Bid to improve London Underground's reliability

Transport for London (TfL) has outlined how it is trying to improve the reliability of the London Underground.

The Tube network in undergoing a major upgrade, which has led to some teething problems.

With the London Underground likely to be a major issue at next year's mayoral election, TfL is keen to show how it is trying cut delays and improve service.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15892804
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Old November 25th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #2580
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