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Old November 21st, 2013, 09:02 PM   #3381
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Phasing out Oyster Cards is nonsense, you'd do well to fact-check on that.

Frankly most people don't use the ticket offices outside of the tourist hubs, where they will remain.
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Old November 21st, 2013, 09:14 PM   #3382
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They're not phasing put oyster or paper tickets, contact less cards will supplement them. If they were phasing them out why would they spend money on more ticket machines for when ticket offices close?!
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Old November 21st, 2013, 11:28 PM   #3383
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No overnight tube to Paddington?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 12:39 AM   #3384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post

Phasing out Oyster Cards is nonsense, you'd do well to fact-check on that.

Frankly most people don't use the ticket offices outside of the tourist hubs, where they will remain.
The Guardian article about the changes referenced it, though I'm having trouble finding it for some reason.

I did however come across this from several months back:
http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/oyster-c...oubt/201325996

Which (in case someone questions the website's credibility) references a transcript on the London Assembly's official website where Boris says outright that he's planning to "move away" from Oyster and eventually scrap TFL's "payment system" altogether.

And I'll admit that I very rarely use the ticket office these days, but I appreciate that older people, those new to the city, etc. would rather have a human face to talk to and answer their questions instead of trying to figure out an unfamiliar machine with a rush hour queue building behind them.

I also wonder how things like refunding oyster cards would work. I often have friends/family from outside the UK visiting, and whenever we're in London I get them a bunch of cards for the few days we usually spend there, which I then refund at the closest ticket office once they've left. How does that work without manned offices?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 02:29 AM   #3385
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The other day I wanted to know whether I needed an Oyster Refund (despite being told yes, the system did it automatically). The conversion I had with the member of staff took longer than a refund should have taken (though perhaps not if it was the same person who needed to hear everything twice and gave needlessly complex answers to questions and corrected me when I said something, even when I said that her colleague was saying that I'm right). But the ticket office didn't open for 45 minutes, despite the guy before seemingly making a transaction (didn't pay too much attention as rude), and the lady sitting in exactly the same place as she would be in 45 minutes when the window I was speaking through would be the ticket office.

I noticed that they will make refunds 'easier' (I'm guessing you go through a convoluted process online) and the return the card thing will rely on the travel centres at key entry points. Though why Liverpool St is a key entry point, but Waterloo not, I don't know. Both are busy mainline termini. Both have Intercity services. Both have services that connect to ferries to non-UK places...

I can't imagine getting them rid of Oyster until contactless payment cards are ubiqituous. Quite how a child going to school would be dealt with, I don't know. Surely keep Oysters but prefer people to use the contactless payment cards?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 02:55 AM   #3386
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With regard to the night services - I can understand the subsurface circle/district etc not running due to track sharing (and age of the infrastructure) but why no Bakerloo service? And it seems crazy to not have dlr service (throw on some screen doors and you don't even need to pay drivers). Reckon this is just to see if it works and more services will be introduced in the future if its successful?
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 04:27 AM   #3387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
And I'll admit that I very rarely use the ticket office these days, but I appreciate that older people, those new to the city, etc. would rather have a human face to talk to and answer their questions instead of trying to figure out an unfamiliar machine with a rush hour queue building behind them.
Humans cost a lot in wages and what not. People deal with machines everywhere. It is more than enough to have "travel centers" on stations that have a lot of tourists, such those on Heathrow, the main rail terminals etc.

Won't some agents be deployed on stations, roaming around, anyway?

Quote:
I also wonder how things like refunding oyster cards would work. I often have friends/family from outside the UK visiting, and whenever we're in London I get them a bunch of cards for the few days we usually spend there, which I then refund at the closest ticket office once they've left. How does that work without manned offices?
Simple: put an office for that on the busy stations from where people get out of London.

There are many metro systems that operate just fine without ticketing staff in all stations. Milano, Barcelona, Berlin - for instance. Nothing really new about systems that don't have a manned ticket booth on every station.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:14 PM   #3388
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In Singapore, the same machines that issue smartcards (even single tickets are issued on smartcards) can eat them back up again and refund deposits.
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Old November 22nd, 2013, 08:49 PM   #3389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post

I can't imagine getting them rid of Oyster until contactless payment cards are ubiqituous. Quite how a child going to school would be dealt with, I don't know. Surely keep Oysters but prefer people to use the contactless payment cards?
My main concern isn't the ubiquity of contactless cards, in fact I'm pretty sure by the time this plan is implemented they would be as common in the UK as chip and pin.

My first concern is how it would lock out certain categories of people from using public transport in London. This includes children(as you mentioned), foreigners whose home countries might not issue contactless cards(the US for example is still stuck on magnetic stripes!) or whose cards might not be compatible with whatever system TFL are using, and those too poor to afford a bank account.

The second is security. There are already some pretty serious questions about how secure contactless cards are, and having an environment where millions of people are forced to use them will make London's transport network a haven for those hoping to exploit them. And on a less severe note, if the card readers freak out and withdraw more credit than they should(which has happened to me a few times), I'd rather it be from an Oyster that has 20-30 quid on it at most instead of directly from my bank account.

And then there's just the idea of completely removing cash as a payment choice. Even if you believe in encouraging a cashless society for whatever reason(I don't), I still think the choice of paying with cash should always remain for many different reasons.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Humans cost a lot in wages and what not. People deal with machines everywhere. It is more than enough to have "travel centers" on stations that have a lot of tourists, such those on Heathrow, the main rail terminals etc.

Won't some agents be deployed on stations, roaming around, anyway?



Simple: put an office for that on the busy stations from where people get out of London.

There are many metro systems that operate just fine without ticketing staff in all stations. Milano, Barcelona, Berlin - for instance. Nothing really new about systems that don't have a manned ticket booth on every station.
Well, if the staff will just be shuffled around it would kind of beat the point of saving money by removing them, wouldn't it? And I'd rather be assisted by someone sitting behind a desk with direct computer access to the ticketing system and all the information a passenger might need, instead of standing around in the middle of a crowded station with maybe a mobile device at most to assist them.

And I'm aware that you can run a metro with no ticket offices. Here in Newcastle the vast majority of Metro stations have no offices and in many cases no staff at all. But in terms of system size, amount of passengers served, and the amount of foreign tourists using it, the Tyne and Wear Metro is absolutely tiny compared to the London Underground and all the other systems attached to it, so I don't think it's a valid comparison.

In principle I'm not against the idea of London cutting down the number of offices, I don't think you need one for example in tiny stations out in the suburbs. But removing all of them except at London's entry point is a bit too severe in my opinion.

And I have to question the placement of the remaining "travel centers" in Heathrow and main rail terminals. I'm pretty sure very few tourists actually use the Tube to get from the airport to central London, and most people arriving at rail terminals will be commuters or domestic travellers. Surely a better idea is to place ticket offices at tourist hotspot stations like Bond Street or Tower Hill?
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Old November 24th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #3390
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Old November 24th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #3391
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From what I understand the one of the changes to the system is to calculate the most reasonable route, if you don't check out of the system, rather than block your oyster card and so cut out most of the reasons people visit a ticket office.

There will always be an Oyster equivalent, but if they can get the majority to use their bank cards then that will be a major cost reduction.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 03:38 PM   #3392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
With regard to the night services - I can understand the subsurface circle/district etc not running due to track sharing (and age of the infrastructure) but why no Bakerloo service? And it seems crazy to not have dlr service (throw on some screen doors and you don't even need to pay drivers). Reckon this is just to see if it works and more services will be introduced in the future if its successful?
I don't know why they didn't include the DLR, but in regards to the Bakerloo line, I think it's because it is one of those lines that haven't had an upgrade yet. But I guess If the night tube proves successful more lines will be added after the first year so we shouldn't worry too much..The good thing is that it happened in the first place, nobody could have guessed that they were going to do that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
And I have to question the placement of the remaining "travel centers" in Heathrow and main rail terminals. I'm pretty sure very few tourists actually use the Tube to get from the airport to central London, and most people arriving at rail terminals will be commuters or domestic travellers.
I've used the Piccadilly line from Heathrow and I can assure you that it is FULL of tourists.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #3393
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Renders of new Ealing Broadway station - terminus for Central and District lines:





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Old November 27th, 2013, 08:50 AM   #3394
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BDP gets nod for Tollgate Gardens regeneration project in UK


Architectural firm BDP has secured approval for its housing and regeneration project at Tollgate Gardens in Maida Vale, London, UK. (source)
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Old November 29th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #3395
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From New Civil Engineer

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http://www.nce.co.uk/news/transport/...&contentID=204
For non-subscribed viewers - Google Cache link

Bank Tube upgrade model to be used at Paddington

28 November, 2013 | By Mark Hansford

London Underground (LU) is pressing ahead with the use of its Innovative Contractor Engagement (ICE) procurement model on two new schemes, NCE can reveal.

The pioneering procurement model is to be next used on the £55M project to link Bakerloo Line and Crossrail platforms at Paddington station before then being used on the £250M Holborn station upgrade.

Using the ICE model, LU assesses bids on the added value of their proposal, rather than on lowest cost. Bidders are also rewarded for ideas presented at tender stage even if their bid is unsuccessful.

The ICE method was first used on the complex Bank Station Upgrade contract, which was awarded this summer to Spanish contractor Dragados. Its solution, which centred around use of travellators to cut journey times through the station, boosted the scheme’s benefit to cost ratio from 2.4:1 to 3.5:1. It also cut the estimated final cost by almost 10% to £564M (NCE 5 September).

But while the model reaped big rewards for LU, losing bidders have complained about the huge cost of tendering. Bidding for the Bank job is understood to have cost each team more than £2M, The compensation from LU failed to match that amount.

As a result, contractors have questioned the use of ICE on the relatively small Bakerloo Line link. One major contractor has already told LU it will not be bidding.

But LU programme director for stations Miles Ashley said the Bakerloo Line link project’s complexity made it ideal for ICE.

LU invited expressions of interest for the job late last month.

It asks for a design and build consortium to develop and deliver a deep level tunnel around 100m long. LU has already taken the design to RIBA Stage E and it is now seeking to prequalify single companies or consortiums that can “bring innovative ideas forward to identify and deliver significant cost reductions and reduce risk”.

It adds that “this high profile project is to be carried out at one of the busiest stations on the network, in the vicinity of busy roads and through routes for traffic and significant heritage properties, whilst minimising disruption as far as practicable to passengers and neighbours”.

The tender notice posted in the Official Journal of the European Union (OJEU) does not state that it is an ICE project, but Ashley told NCE that the language of the notice makes it clear that it is.

LU has set a price range of between £30M and £55M for the job and wants expressions of interest by 25 November.

Meanwhile, Ashley said that the Holborn OJEU notice would be posted at “any moment” and that it too would be procured using the ICE methodology. LU had already alerted the industry that it was considering using ICE for the job.
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Old December 4th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #3396
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Last month there was a consultation about new pedestrian bridge over Thames between ITV studios at South Bank and Temple tube station. So let's see how the bridge will use Temple station roof:

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Old December 5th, 2013, 09:49 AM   #3397
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Today I found on IanVisits blog interesting article based on official documents:

Quote:
http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2013...upgrade-plans/

A look at London’s tube and rail upgrade plans

DECEMBER 5, 2013
BY IAN MANSFIELD


The periodic board meeting minutes at TfL have been published, and amongst all the words and pictures some useful nuggets sometimes emerge.

Looking at the railways…

Tube Stations

While upgrades are visible and ongoing at places such as Victoria and Tottenham Court Road, it is the future developments that are of interest.

Bank Station upgrade is being planned, with the consultation recently completed. However, the interim second exit from the Waterloo and City line may be running behind schedule. There’s a 7-month delay to the handover of the site, but it was caused by one of the best archeological discoveries in recent years, so I personally don’t object.

A short comment about improvements at Kennington should be obviously the Northern Line Extension, but brief mention is also made about Elephant & Castle — and there is indeed a consultation planned for late 2015 to discuss what can be done to that rabbits warren of tunnels. They are looking at new over-site developments to help fund the works.

Holborn is also due to see improvements, but with completion not expected until 2022, when a new ticket hall (presumably without a ticket office) and link between the two tube lines will open.

Camden is mentioned — and seems to be at the “we need to do something, but how to proceed” stage at the moment.

Fifty out of 430 escalators are due to be replaced over the next 10 years. TfL has adopted a standard escalator design, allowing a longer-term commitment to higher volumes to create economies of scale. This means that the cost of each escalator is now 57 per cent cheaper than the Underground’s previous bespoke designs.

Railways

Still planning Crossrail 2 construction to start in the 2020s — subject to all the usual caveats. Later this year safeguarding rights will be adjusted to reflect the likely route so that future skyscrapers are aware of a possible railway running under them.

The Northern Line signalling works took a step forward at the end of October when the Camden area was upgraded.

The tunnel lining replacement works near Bond Street due to acid is on target, with 8 rings replaced so far, although that is slightly behind schedule. Completion is still expected in Jan 2016.

DLR track upgrades at Pudding Mill Lane should be finished next Spring, increasing capacity by 1,100 passengers per hour. A new train depot at Beckton is expected by 2022 to store more trains that are expected to be ordered by then.

Interestingly, the long running calls for improved services south of Lewisham to Bromley are mentioned, with a possible dual DLR-Bakerloo Line project being talked about. All subject to funding of course.

23 stations on the West Anglia line will be upgraded to Overground standards in 2015 as part of TfL taking over the franchise. Ordering replacement trains is likely to be tied with the Gospel Oak-Barking line electrification, but the trains will be 4-car lengths, leaving possible space for a 5-car upgrade later.

Trains

Sixteen of the Met line trains have completed a reliability enhancement programme. A further 10 trains will be completed over the next three months and conclusion of the programme is forecast for March 2014.

The District line rollout of the new trains is phased is due to the need to immunise LU and Network Rail track circuits and other signalling equipment from electro-magnetic interference from the new trains. S-Stock operation on the Wimbledon to Edgware Road branch of the District line should start in February 2014.

The programme remains on track to complete the roll out of new trains on the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines ahead of the target of the end of 2014.

An order for design suggestions for new trains to be used on the Bakerloo, Piccadilly, Waterloo & City and Central lines should be released at the end of 2015.

Maps

Oh, and because everyone loves a new map – here’s the map as it might look in 2021.

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Old December 5th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #3398
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Today:

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http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/1...ing-guarantee/

Northern line extension receives funding guarantee

5 DEC, 2013
Report by Jonathan Webb


The government has announced that terms have been agreed on a £1 billion guarantee for the London Underground’s Northern line extension to Battersea.

This follows last month’s public inquiry into the project that will see two new stations, one at Battersea power station and one off Wandsworth Road, and require an additional six trains to operate the extended service. The junction for the new line would be near Kennington station and provide Battersea residents with access to the tube network for the first time.

Known as the last dormant district of central London, it is estimated that the extension will not only revive the area with a new riverside town centre, but support 25,000 new jobs and 18,000 new homes at nearby Nine Elms.

It is envisaged that work will commence in 2015, with the line opening in 2020.

The Northern line’s fleet of 106 trains is currently undergoing refurbishment and once resignalled the line will have a headway of just 90 seconds, which will considerably improve capacity on the underground’s busiest line. The line carries 860,000 passengers every weekday, accounting for 25 per cent of the Tube’s total passengers.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 04:30 PM   #3399
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Today I found on IanVisits blog interesting article based on official documents:
This map with the new lines added is definitely nice. The increased density makes it look more and more like Paris.
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Old December 6th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #3400
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Does Crossrail really go to LHR T4 instead of T5?
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