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Old December 16th, 2006, 02:39 PM   #341
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Old December 16th, 2006, 05:35 PM   #342
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Happy birthday!
100 years ago the construction just started for Hamburg's first metro line. This is commemorated at some stations with old black-white postersize photos of the construction phase. Also with banners in the carriages and with flyers telling the story. I wonder what they do in six years when the centenniary of the opening of the first metro line takes place.
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 04:30 AM   #343
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London Transport Fares Surge Again for 2007

London transport fares surge again for 2007



LONDON, Jan 2, 2007 (AFP) - As usual for the first day back at work in the new year, London commuters were groaning Tuesday about fare rises on what is already one of the world's busiest and most expensive public transport systems.

The price of a single Underground train journey in the city centre rose by a third to four pounds (eight dollars, six euros), while bus tickets rose by the same fraction to two pounds.

The tariffs are designed to encourage commuters to switch to the "Oyster" electronic smart card, where fares have been frozen at 1.50 pounds on the Tube and one pound on the bus, though off-peak bus fares rise 20 pence to one pound.

Tourists are likely to be hit hard by the measures as many are unlikely to have signed up for an Oyster card.

In Paris, the cheapest ticket costs 1.40 euros, in Tokyo it is just over one euro and in New York it costs two dollars.

"The headlines about big cash fare increases today show that the savings are now to be found on Oyster with many Oyster fares now half the cost of the cash alternative," said London Mayor Ken Livingstone.

London's mainline rail commuters faced average price rises of 4.3 percent, which is above the July inflation rate of three percent -- the date and level set by the government for calculating the price hikes.

Christian Wolmar, a commentator for London's Evening Standard newspaper, wrote: "The move towards Oyster may be sensible, but it should not be used as a heavy tax on tourists.

"Our transport system is the lifeblood of the capital, on which depends the whole British economy. Fleecing commuters rather than investing properly isn't just wrong-headed and unfair. It's counter-productive."

Katherine Burr, a sales executive from Sevenoaks, south of London, told the newspaper: "It really ticks me off to pay more money but what can you do?

"The train service was really bad towards the end of last year. The connections never add up, services are breaking down and then they charge more money."

Commenting on the rail fares, Chris Grayling, the main opposition Conservatives' transport spokesman, said: "This is further evidence that high fares are a deliberate part of government strategy to tackle overcrowding on trains.

"We can't expect people to leave their cars at home if they are being priced off the railways."
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 02:59 PM   #344
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Bollocks. If people bothered to get Oyster they'd find fares have been frozen for a second year, which is effectively a reduction considering inflation. And its not a tax on tourists, tourists are perfectly able to purchase Oyster for a £3 deposit returnable when they leave... Its no different to other cities with a smartcard system like Singapore.
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 07:12 PM   #345
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From a tourist's perspective, it looks rather shady. Why raise fares to $8??? That's unreal. If the Tube really wanted people to switch to Oyster, they would just do away with the fare system and make Oyster mandatory to all. The majority of people who don't have oyster are who? Tourists (I think).

So put some oyster vending machines in the stations and make them required instead of forcing some insane fare on people who aren't in the 'know' about the smartcards. And in most places, don't you have to be a resident to have one? I'm in Lyon and only locals can get them.

But thanks for letting me know that non-londoners can get Oyster. When I go there this weekend (for the first time!!) I'll make sure to get one. Yay!

Also, does anybody know a site that has a site of metro budgets? Like the percentage of fares that cover operating costs? Can't find any...
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 07:17 PM   #346
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From a tourist's perspective, it looks rather shady. Why raise fares to $8??? That's unreal. If the Tube really wanted people to switch to Oyster, they would just do away with the fare system and make Oyster mandatory to all. The majority of people who don't have oyster are who? Tourists (I think).

So put some oyster vending machines in the stations and make them required instead of forcing some insane fare on people who aren't in the 'know' about the smartcards. And in most places, don't you have to be a resident to have one? I'm in Lyon and only locals can get them.

But thanks for letting me know that non-londoners can get Oyster. When I go there this weekend (for the first time!!) I'll make sure to get one. Yay!

Also, does anybody know a site that has a site of metro budgets? Like the percentage of fares that cover operating costs? Can't find any...
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Old January 3rd, 2007, 09:43 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kub86 View Post
From a tourist's perspective, it looks rather shady. Why raise fares to $8??? That's unreal. If the Tube really wanted people to switch to Oyster, they would just do away with the fare system and make Oyster mandatory to all. The majority of people who don't have oyster are who? Tourists (I think).

So put some oyster vending machines in the stations and make them required instead of forcing some insane fare on people who aren't in the 'know' about the smartcards. And in most places, don't you have to be a resident to have one? I'm in Lyon and only locals can get them.

But thanks for letting me know that non-londoners can get Oyster. When I go there this weekend (for the first time!!) I'll make sure to get one. Yay!

Also, does anybody know a site that has a site of metro budgets? Like the percentage of fares that cover operating costs? Can't find any...

They are doing away with cash fares - this is the whole point i.e. forcing people to get Oyster. You can get Oystercards from tourist boards in the USA as I understand.

If you just said 'tomorrow, there will be no cash fares' you'd have chaos...
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Old January 4th, 2007, 03:31 AM   #348
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It's not hard to get an Oyster anyway although the cash fare amount does seem excessive. I think I still have my Oyster stashed somewhere.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 03:54 AM   #349
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You get an Oyster, you hand it in again and get your £ 3 plus whatever's left on it if you use prepay back. It's really easy.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 04:10 AM   #350
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Wow $8 USD? People are already complaining the fare being $2 in NY...
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Old January 4th, 2007, 07:03 AM   #351
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kub86, why don't you buy a Travelcard instead (Get a passport sized photo as well for 7-day Card), as you won't stay London for long? You may check it on The Tube Website.

What a shame for London the most expansive city on the public transport now!!!
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Old January 4th, 2007, 07:41 AM   #352
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Quote:
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Bollocks. If people bothered to get Oyster they'd find fares have been frozen for a second year, which is effectively a reduction considering inflation. And its not a tax on tourists, tourists are perfectly able to purchase Oyster for a £3 deposit returnable when they leave... Its no different to other cities with a smartcard system like Singapore.
Londoners have it good in a sense. In Singapore the S$3 deposit (1 pound) is actually non refundable as its to cover the cost of making the card (If was refundable until about two years ago). After all, any card that is sold is sold at a loss apparently. And if a card is not used it becomes a liability to the company.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 07:42 AM   #353
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Its freaking scary to charge people the equivilent of 12 Singapore dollars or 4 pounds for a one station trip for instance. The same would cost about 0.33 pound in Singapore. But I guess the investments in transport in London are worth it?

Its certainly an extreme way to totally get people off paying cash. I would definitely buy an oyster when I visit London.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 07:54 AM   #354
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Are Oyster cards readily available to tourists???

I'll probably be in London late this year - I sure aint forking out close to $15 to ride a few stops on the tube.
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Old January 4th, 2007, 08:04 AM   #355
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Travelcard Fares
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...elcard-day.asp

You can get a Travelcard on an Oyster :
https://sales.oystercard.com/oyster/...roductType=PPT

"For each Oyster card, the system automatically adds up the cost of each pay as you go journey made that day on Tube, DLR, Buses, Trams and participating National Rail services.

When the total cost reaches a pre-determined limit, a cap is applied and further journeys made in the same zones are free for the rest of the day."
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Old January 4th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The tariffs are designed to encourage commuters to switch to the "Oyster" electronic smart card, where fares have been frozen at 1.50 pounds on the Tube and one pound on the bus, though off-peak bus fares rise 20 pence to one pound.

Tourists are likely to be hit hard by the measures as many are unlikely to have signed up for an Oyster card.
Is the Oyster card more interesting than Offpeak Travelcard for a few days staying ?
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Old January 4th, 2007, 08:35 AM   #357
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Quote:
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Is the Oyster card more interesting than Offpeak Travelcard for a few days staying ?
I used an Oyster for my London visit. The good thing is if I don't log enough days to make a Travelcard worthwhile, I only pay the individual trips. Oyster automatically calculates the cheapest combination for you. However, I'm not sure how the Off-peak Travelcard works, although Oyster does support Travelcards :

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...elcard-day.asp
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Old January 4th, 2007, 08:44 AM   #358
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For those wondering about Oyster cards for tourists, yes, they are easily purchased when arriving at your first station. I done this in Heathrow once and got a weeks travel card for Zone's 1&2 and a £10 top up on it.

What this meant, was of cause if I travel anywhere in zone 1&2 for a week it was part of the weekly pass. However, I started my journey in Heathrow and would end it there, so that was taken off the £10 credit I added to the card. It only charged from Heathrow (zone 6) to zone 3 which after that my weekly travelcard (zone 1/2) came into play.

It worked pretty well, and I still have the card, so when I next went to London, I just topped it up.

I liked the price capping as well. Let's say I had the weekly travel pass for zones 1/2. This is fine for unlimited travel on all buses, trains, tube, DLR etc if it's in zone 1/2. But say one day in that week I need to travel extensively through theouter zones, say up to zone 4. When I leave zone 2, it will charge me extra from the credit I have on the card, but will stop charging me when this reaches the price of a daily travel card for that zone. If I was buying single fares, it would keep adding up, but you don't have to think about it with the card, as you know it will stop once it reaches the cap. Brilliant idea.

As a tourist, my only gripe was that at the time, I couldn't purchase one online as I didn't live in Britain, or top one up online like you could in the UK. However, I don't know if they have changed this now - it would be handy as it would save me lining up when I got to Heathrow, but not too important.

Oddly enough they never charged me the £3 deposit ???

One other point that I don't like, I often stay with family in Hemel Hempstead. This is 25minutes from central London, but not on the underground. Sadly, despite being so close, the Oyster card doesn't work from there, so I still then have to buy a paper travel ticket for London - this should be fixed!

So, for those gasping at the £4 for a single fare, no, you don't have to pay that. Just get an Oyster like everyone else and it's £1.5
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Old January 4th, 2007, 12:02 PM   #359
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what happens when everyone has oyster cards? how will the system cope in the loss of revenue created by insanely high cash payments? by hiking the prices right up on the oyster card i suspect.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 01:23 AM   #360
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If they want tourists to get Oyster cards, they could start by installing Oyster vending machines and removing the cash ones (what's the current ratio? 1 Oyster (with a huge qeue) to 20 cash?). Besides, it's not that easy for foreigners to even figure out where to get the Oyster card. Do they want to spend 20 minutes in line, too? The whole measure aims at ripping off the visitors, nothing else.
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