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Old January 6th, 2007, 02:33 AM   #361
sweek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease View Post
If they want tourists to get Oyster cards, they could start by installing Oyster vending machines and removing the cash ones (what's the current ratio? 1 Oyster (with a huge qeue) to 20 cash?). Besides, it's not that easy for foreigners to even figure out where to get the Oyster card. Do they want to spend 20 minutes in line, too? The whole measure aims at ripping off the visitors, nothing else.
According to uk.transport.london, they've started installing machines that will just give you an Oyster card if you put in 3 pounds in cash now.
But yes, on many stations, we could really use more Oyster machines.

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Originally Posted by Skabbymuff View Post
what happens when everyone has oyster cards? how will the system cope in the loss of revenue created by insanely high cash payments? by hiking the prices right up on the oyster card i suspect.
I'm sure they'll save a lot of money if they won't have to take care of paper tickets anymore. Simpler gates, no paper/printing required, just one system to have to deal with.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 09:19 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Justme View Post
I liked the price capping as well. Let's say I had the weekly travel pass for zones 1/2. This is fine for unlimited travel on all buses, trains, tube, DLR etc if it's in zone 1/2. But say one day in that week I need to travel extensively through theouter zones, say up to zone 4. When I leave zone 2, it will charge me extra from the credit I have on the card, but will stop charging me when this reaches the price of a daily travel card for that zone. If I was buying single fares, it would keep adding up, but you don't have to think about it with the card, as you know it will stop once it reaches the cap. Brilliant idea.
That is absolutely awesome!

Will Oyster be integrated into cell phones anytime in the future? The smart card here in Japan for JR East (and soon just about every railway in greater Tokyo), Suica, if your mobile phone model is compatible (not too old and not a model by Softbank), then you can put Suica on your phone and tap your phone on the turnstyle, just like the card. You can top it up through the phone from any place you have a signal, no lining up. You can also use it to pay at vending machines and participating stores around stations. If Suica is the model for your monthly pass, I am pretty sure it would calculate the cheapest trip for you (in future, even if you use a different operator?), but I don't have a monthly pass with Suica.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 11:55 AM   #363
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I was in London a year ago and didnt understand how to get an Oyestercard. Instead I bought a 1 day pass. Since I was there on a wednesday, my all day pass cost less than 2 cash rides (I think it was 4 pounds). The pass was a paper ticket.
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Old January 6th, 2007, 06:37 PM   #364
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Precisely... people who buy single journeys on paper tickets are mugs: the chances of someone needing to make one single journey on any given day is small, most people will make at least two, tourists many more.

A one-day travelcard is extremely good value for a tourist who is out and about for a day hopping between tubes, buses and national rail.

Again, this is yet another crappy story attacking London Underground. Its spin. Why not lead with the fact that Oyster fares are capped for the second consecutive year, which is effectively a price reduction?
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Old January 6th, 2007, 10:22 PM   #365
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Whilst obviously getting an Oyster card is what TfL would like us to do, it's a shame they don't seem to appreciate that Oyster isn't available at every station in London.

There's still a hell of a lot of rail lines that don't accept Oyster, nor will they for a long time. And people have a point when they say it's unfair to penalise them for not living on a Tube stop.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 01:23 AM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post

Precisely... people who buy single journeys on paper tickets are mugs: the chances of someone needing to make one single journey on any given day is small, most people will make at least two, tourists many more.

A one-day travelcard is extremely good value for a tourist who is out and about for a day hopping between tubes, buses and national rail.

Again, this is yet another crappy story attacking London Underground. Its spin. Why not lead with the fact that Oyster fares are capped for the second consecutive year, which is effectively a price reduction?
Because it's difficult for tourists to get an Oyster card. They see all the cash vending machines. They see huge crowds lining up to talk to a Tube agent and I can't recall any "get your Oyster card HERE" signs. Obviously, Londoners figure out how to get it. However, I doubt that a respectable number of tourists, especially short period visitors, do. In my opinion, the whole system is a blatant ripoff targeted at tourists.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 02:31 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiccoplease View Post
In my opinion, the whole system is a blatant ripoff targeted at tourists.
Tourists are ripped-off all over the world. It's an easy way of any city to make easy money.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 04:44 AM   #368
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true
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post

Precisely... people who buy single journeys on paper tickets are mugs: the chances of someone needing to make one single journey on any given day is small, most people will make at least two, tourists many more.

A one-day travelcard is extremely good value for a tourist who is out and about for a day hopping between tubes, buses and national rail.

Again, this is yet another crappy story attacking London Underground. Its spin. Why not lead with the fact that Oyster fares are capped for the second consecutive year, which is effectively a price reduction?
Exactly... if you haven't got an Oyster Card yet (tourists included), its probably time to get one.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 10:04 PM   #370
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The biggest problem here is not for tourists who just have to spend 10 minutes or so getting an oyster card but for Londoners who have to travel for miles to top up their oyster cards if they don't want to use the tube, but a bus. Alot of small shops in these less central places don't offer oyster top up so people are forced to walk for ages to top up which is ridiculously unfair.

As for this increase I think it's a good idea as it means that the oyster fare is still capped which as Tubeman says means that prices have fallen in real terms if you're using an oyster card. The issue about pricing is with mainland railways which are ripping everyone off.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #371
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I didn't know the Oyster card is also available for tourists. I always thought its like a year travelcard for locals. I was in London twice, both stays not longer than three and a half days and the travelcards were sufficient for my needs.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 11:59 PM   #372
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fares

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Bollocks. If people bothered to get Oyster they'd find fares have been frozen for a second year, which is effectively a reduction considering inflation. And its not a tax on tourists, tourists are perfectly able to purchase Oyster for a £3 deposit returnable when they leave... Its no different to other cities with a smartcard system like Singapore.
For many Capital cities in Europe an all day ticket is 4.00 euro or less, usually available from a machine without paying deposits etc. Since 2005 I have been in Bonn, Cologne, Brussels, Lisbon, Porto, all which charge much less than UK. Must be the subsidies as well though. Main reason is that the British couldnt organise anything simple. Too many Civil Servants and Politicians.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:53 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRS View Post
The biggest problem here is not for tourists who just have to spend 10 minutes or so getting an oyster card but for Londoners who have to travel for miles to top up their oyster cards if they don't want to use the tube, but a bus. Alot of small shops in these less central places don't offer oyster top up so people are forced to walk for ages to top up which is ridiculously unfair.

As for this increase I think it's a good idea as it means that the oyster fare is still capped which as Tubeman says means that prices have fallen in real terms if you're using an oyster card. The issue about pricing is with mainland railways which are ripping everyone off.
You can order your Oyster online, top it up online, and let it automatically top up from your debit card. I never actually use a ticket machine at all. Every time I go into a bus or tube and my amount is under £5, it'll automatically top up £20. I can't even imagine how much time queuing I've already saved with that.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #374
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Can you top up your Oyster card online in one step or do you have to touch it on a selected vending machine afterwards as a second step?
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:48 AM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeluas View Post
For many Capital cities in Europe an all day ticket is 4.00 euro or less, usually available from a machine without paying deposits etc. Since 2005 I have been in Bonn, Cologne, Brussels, Lisbon, Porto, all which charge much less than UK. Must be the subsidies as well though. Main reason is that the British couldnt organise anything simple. Too many Civil Servants and Politicians.
All those cities you mention are far less expansive than London and so it follows that an all day pass should be cheaper. Its only really fair to compare London with cities with equally big networks like Paris or Moscow.

An all day travelcard in London gives access to several hundred (600+?) Underground, Mainline and DLR stations as well as hundreds of bus routes. Of course its not comparable buying an all-day pass to Porto or Bonn as you're technically getting far less for your money.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:51 AM   #376
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The biggest problem here is not for tourists who just have to spend 10 minutes or so getting an oyster card but for Londoners who have to travel for miles to top up their oyster cards if they don't want to use the tube, but a bus. Alot of small shops in these less central places don't offer oyster top up so people are forced to walk for ages to top up which is ridiculously unfair.
Not much use if you don't have a computer or are not computer literate, but anyone with a PC can order and top up an Oyster card from the comfort of their own home. They technicaly never need to go near a Tube station even.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 11:43 AM   #377
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Can Oyster cardholders link to their bank accounts to do an automatic top-up if a threshold is reached? (ie. fill 20 pounds if balance drops to 10)
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Old January 8th, 2007, 12:52 PM   #378
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Can Oyster cardholders link to their bank accounts to do an automatic top-up if a threshold is reached? (ie. fill 20 pounds if balance drops to 10)
Yes, it's very easy to do online. You'll hear three beeps when you go through a gate or touch in in a bus/tram and your Oyster is being topped up.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:46 PM   #379
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As i understand it the point of this part of the point of the project is to shift staff away from ticket offices to other work where they are more visable and can do more to help customers.

Oyster is not without a vast number of faults (use on NR, Prepay miscalcuations, absence of ticket machines, stupid overcharging, overcharging when you have to take an alternative route, lack of information on some of the more complicated interchanges etc.)

However, dispite all of that, it is still a vast improvement on what existed before, and what I have experenced abroad. (shanghai, paris, chicago, washington, prague, rome, amsterdam, bucharest...)

Still, if you use it more than once a day on average dont be a mug and just but an annual and save yourself some money (plus you get a fancy gold card that entitles you to some unknown privaleges).
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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #380
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Year, I don't understand most of the complaints. From what I used - as a tourist, it worked fine for that week, in fact, better than normal tickets. On one occasion, at the end of my week in London, my weekly travel card had ran out (I stayed one more day than the travel card), but I needed to still pop into a supermarket to grab some stuff to bring back to Germany. It simply deducted the return journey from my credit as the weekly pass had ran out. Simple as that, and I didn't have to think still about buying extra tickets.

They should put better signs up for tourists though, I agree. And make sure online purchasing for tourists outside the UK works.

The only other issue is, as mentioned, they really have to get every above ground railway station in London in the service as well, and soon. Tourists don't only use the tube, DLR and buses.
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