LONDON | DLR, Underground, Tramlink

[spsmiler]

Hi Never,

where was this taken - I dont recognise it!



also, is this (below) the passageway linking the museums to South Kensignton station?

Simon

[spsmiler]

Why "Tube" trains are so-called! (seen near Hendon Central Station)



The "surface" stock trains are more or less the same size as the mainline trains. (seen near West Ham station)



the two sizes of train side by side This view was taken at a location where the Piccadily Line 'tube' trains heading to Heathrow Airport provide an express(ish) service whilst the larger District Line trains call at 'all stations'.)



Simon

[spsmiler]

The Richmond Branch of the District Line shares tracks with the North London Line's (mainline) trains. The mainline trains are the class 313 trains which can operate either on 750v dc third rail or 25,000v ac overhead wires.


It is important to catch the right train as otherwise you could end up somewhere where you really dont want to be! (The NLL also serves some of London's rougher areas where tourists with cameras must be more streetwise.)
Seen at Kew Gardens station, next to the globally reknown botanical gardens.


North of Queens Park Station the Bakerloo Line runs over mainline tracks, sharing them with suburban trains - either the class 313 trains as seen above or the class 507 trains which are visually identical but only operate on third rail. Nowadays the underground trains only go as far as Harrow and Wealdstone but at one time they used to travel all the way to Watford Junction. Unlike other areas in London where underground and trains operate joint services the section north of Queens Park only uses mainline tickets and certain types of London Underground tickets are not valid. Travelling on an underground train north of Queens Park is something that train fans will find interesting - especially as to join the mainline tracks they will pass through a trainshed. Note for reasons of personal safety it is best to keep your wits about, especially at stations such as Harlesdon and Willesden Junction (where the North London Line intersects) - I am not saying dont go there - as I have many times - just to "be careful". This is Stonebridge Park station, where there is a depot.


Further up the line the mainline and suburban trains run alongside each other with 4 tracks electrified with overhead wires and two with electric rails. The type of InterCity train seen here is being replaced by the tilting Pendolino, but when this video-still was captured the tiilting trains were still to be built.


South Kenton is a much favoured spot for train watching from the island platform. Here a Virgin Pendolino heading north passes a southbound underground train (towards London) as it starts to leave the station. I was lucky - not only to get these trains side-by-side like this but because the Pendolino had just switched from the slow to the fast tracks (the one it is on now) it was travelling fairly slowly, making photography significantly easier.


Same spot looking in the opposite direction - a northbound EWS (England Wales Scotland) freight train passes by ion the slow tracks. Shame its a diesel though. The tracks used by the southbound underground and "Silverlink Metro" trains can be seen in the foreground (must keep on topic for this thread!!)


The Finsbury Park - Highbury & Islington - Moorgate section of London's Underground was a self-contained shuttle which used an incompatible 4 rail system where the electric rails were 10" (25cm) outside of the tracks, one each per side. This was changed to standard when tube trains replaced the original trains in the late 1930's. With the Victoria Line taking over its platforms at Finsbury Park (for same level interchange with the Piccadilly line) in 1964 the underground section between Drayton park and Finsbury Park stations was closed.
More recently with its incorporation into the "Great Northern Electrics" mainline electrification in the 1970's it was converted to 3rd rail only and became part of BR using the Class 313 twin-system trains seen above.
Note that this line is no longer shown on the famous London UndergrounD map and that nowadays no service is provided in the evenings or at weekends, much to the dismay of people who live near Eaasex Road Station. This view comes from Highbury & Islington station, where the trains have same level interchange with the Victoria Line and interchange with the North London Line (above ground) is also possible.


Simon

[spsmiler]

The London Underground uses a 4-rail system where the electrical return is isolated from the the running rails (the rails used by the train's wheels).
Sparks like this are quite normal and occurs when the electric power collection "shoes" of a train that is motoring (ie: drawing power) reach the end of a section of electric power rail - such as at junctions, as here.


The Docklands Light Railway features a modified 3rd rail system where powerful springs force the "shoe" upwards so that it collects power by sliding along the underside of the electric rail. This train was in a special livery to commemorate the Queen's Golden Jubilee.


Steam train passing through Wembley Park station one evening in the 1990's. It was passing through one of the platforms which until the recent rebuilding works (which are still in progress) was mainly used by northbound Metropolitan lime trains which run through non-stop.


Originally part of a fleet of 20 electric locomotives Sarah Siddons was built in 1923 by the former Metropolitan Railway for its London - Chesham / Amersham - Aylesbury (and beyond) services which until WW2 sometimes even included a Pullman carriage offering light refreshments. These engines ran over the electrified section between London and Harrow-On-The-Hill (or, after 1925, Rickmansworth) whilst steam locomotives operated services over the rest of the route. Initially she escaped the "knacker's yard" for "operational" reasons but eventually her nostalgic value was realised. Nowadays she often takes part in leisure-orientated events such as "Steam on the Met". Until mainline railway privatisation some railtours even saw her hauling British Railways InterCity carriages on both the Underground and the 3rd rail Southern Electric networks.

The Pullman carraiges were actually introduced in 1910 and using different electric locomotives were the first electrically hauled Pullman's "anywhere" globally. They were for first class passengers only and as usual there was a supplement (extra charge) for travelling in the Pullman, initially this being either 6d (ie: six pence in real money or 2½p in modern decimal money) or 1s 0d (ie: one shilling, which equated to 12 pence in real money or 5p decimal) according to distance travelled, although later this was reduced to just 6d for all journeys. They were also fitted with toilets, which, as usual (in those days) discharged onto the tracks and were even allowed to be used whilst travelling through tunnelled sections of the route.

Scones and afternoon cream tea anyone?




At one time a whole fleet of slam door compartment trains such as these operated on Londons' (now truncated) Metropolitan line between London and Aylesbury, changing between steam and electric locomotives during station stops at either Harrow-On-The-Hill or (after 1925) Rickmansworth stations.

They were actually purchased by the Metropolitan Railway which saw itself as a mainline railway. The Met's demise came in 1933 when - at the government's behest - it was forcibly merged into what became known as The London Passenger Transport Board.

Within months of gaining control the new owners started looking to reduce the Met's sphere of operations, a policy which by 1937 had seen some line closures and a handover of non-core passenger operations to the London & North Eastern Railway (LNER); in 1962 there was further retrenchment when services beyond Amersham were handed over to British Railways.



The Metropolitan line was originally built as a mainline railway and can still be used by steam & electric locomotive hauled trains as well as the Chiltern 'Turbo' trains (seen leaving other platform).


A modern-era Chiltern 'Turbo' 165 train heading for Marylebone leaves Rickmansworth station, whilst running over London Underground tracks. The smoke above the train clearly identifies it as being diesel powered.


Simon

[spsmiler]

Old signal cabin on a Central Line platform at London Liverpool Street Station. As a schoolboy I used to change trains here every day and as I walked along the platform to the escalators I would pause for a few moments and watch the signalman operating the levers, knobs and dials. Much to my delight I would sometimes be invited in and given a quick 'tour' of how the system worked. (The signalmen also made sure I did not stay too long and become late for school!)

Since this picture was taken the whole line has been resignalled and the cabin has been closed.


The 'Traditional' view of a London Underground tube train. This type of train was first introduced in 1938 and although now withdrawn from London some examples are still in use on the Isle of Wight. Seen at Morden on the Northern Line.


Internally these trains offered a degree of seating which many claim is far more comfortable (and numerous) than more modern UndergrounD trains.



Despite being experimental in design, dating from the 1960's and only four trains having actually been constructed the "Craven" tube trains have become very much part of the nostalgia movement.

Only the motor cars were built new - they were intended to work with older trailer (non powered ) cars dating from the 1920's. In the 1990's the older trailers were replaced with newer examples dating from the late 1930's, this being the format in which the train has been preserved.

These trains saw most of their lives working on the Hainault - Woodford shuttle service as test-beds for automatic (self driving) trains. Nowadays the preserved train is used as a working attraction during special events.


"Craven" tube train at North Wield station on the Epping - Ongar branch of the Central Line, which was closed in 1994. Heritage diesel services have just started on part of this line (Sundays only, as far as I am aware)


Trains such as these were introduced in the 1930's and lasted until the 1980's. Although there were several variants which featured different electrical components the difference which passengers would have noticed was in the internal illumination, with the red trains using light bulbs and the white trains using flourescent tubes.



After withdrawal a few commemorative tours were operated for staff and train enthusiasts. When the train visited the single-track Olympia branch it replaced the 'normal' passenger service so also carried fare paying passengers (like me!); normally I dont trespass on the tracks (it can be dangerous, even lethal) but in this instance permission was granted.


This view comes from inside of the red trains seen above. The door-less doorways inside the car date from when the District line trains included provision for first class passengers with two internal doors in the car to keep the first and third class passengers apart plus split the first class section into smoking and non-smoking areas. First class on the District line was abolished in 1940 and smoking was banned after the 1987 escalator fire disaster at Kings Cross station, which apparently happened shortly after government-inspired economies saw escalator litter cleaning reduced from daily to alternate days.



Preserved underground carriage (called car on the UndergrounD) complete with a sales stand laden with books videos and freebie leaflets promoting the various railway preservationist organisations and their activities.


all pics from my website - www.citytransport.info

the website is still being built and some pages are still incomplete, but its mostly there!

Simon

[Tubeman]

Fantastic post!

Where are pics from? I could never find any decent pics when I was looking for pics of old stocks etc.

This pic:



Isn't real... Its certainly not Bond Street, its too dark, there's too much litter, connecting passageways never have big Roundels in them like that (they're on platforms) and that poster isn't real. Its a piece of artwork, I'm certain!

[Never]

I don't know much about the pics other than they are the represent the tube, the first is artwork whilst the second does look like one of the more upmarket tubestations such as Kensington

[spsmiler]

Tubeman - they are all mine! I'm 45 and have been filmong (on and off) for about 25 years.

These are all taken from my website, which looks at 10 different types of transport technology with a basic theme of showing that there are transport solutions to local and global environmental issues which add value to people lives', dont help "big brother" keeping tabs on people (Hitler and Stalin would have L-O-V-E-D smartcard technologies) AND are alternatives to just financially penalising motorists.

One day (when i have more time - and the website is finished) there will be even more pics online. I have a collection of 110 size films from the late 1970's which have never been digitised. I also *wish* that I had been filming as a schoolboy - things which have now gone, such as diesel trains on the widened lines... even DMU's on the Epping branch - I understand that there was still at least one early morning BR DMU in the 1970's. Nowadays though the link with the mainline (which was near Leyton station) has been lost as the very controversial A12 road extension which was built in the 1990's between the A102M and Wanstead has severed it. That said, the tracks are still designed for mainline trains and at the stations there is still a wider than normal gap between the train and the platform (because the mainline trains are wider than the tube trains).

As for the passageway, it looks like it could pass under a road, or be a station exit. Most certainly its not Bond street as this station's passageways are more box shaped -not curved as here.


Never, thanks - if this passageway is where I think it is then its only partly connected with the Underground, and it is free to use.

Simon

[Tubeman]

Originally Posted by spsmiler

Tubeman - they are all mine! I'm 45 and have been filmong (on and off) for about 25 years.

These are all taken from my website, which looks at 10 different types of transport technology with a basic theme of showing that there are transport solutions to local and global environmental issues which add value to people lives', dont help "big brother" keeping tabs on people (Hitler and Stalin would have L-O-V-E-D smartcard technologies) AND are alternatives to just financially penalising motorists.

One day (when i have more time - and the website is finished) there will be even more pics online. I have a collection of 110 size films from the late 1970's which have never been digitised. I also *wish* that I had been filming as a schoolboy - things which have now gone, such as diesel trains on the widened lines... even DMU's on the Epping branch - I understand that there was still at least one early morning BR DMU in the 1970's. Nowadays though the link with the mainline (which was near Leyton station) has been lost as the very controversial A12 road extension which was built in the 1990's between the A102M and Wanstead has severed it. That said, the tracks are still designed for mainline trains and at the stations there is still a wider than normal gap between the train and the platform (because the mainline trains are wider than the tube trains).

As for the passageway, it looks like it could pass under a road, or be a station exit. Most certainly its not Bond street as this station's passageways are more box shaped -not curved as here.


Never, thanks - if this passageway is where I think it is then its only partly connected with the Underground, and it is free to use.

Simon

Yes, early morning British Rail trains ran to Epping until 1970, and the link at Leyton was finally removed in 1972. If I as an amateur railway historian and London Underground drone could be of any assistance to your site, let me know!

[spsmiler]

Originally Posted by Tubeman

Yes, early morning British Rail trains ran to Epping until 1970, and the link at Leyton was finally removed in 1972. If I as an amateur railway historian and London Underground drone could be of any assistance to your site, let me know!

Thanks Tubeman.

What I really need more than anything else are some 48 hour days so that I can get it finished!


I seem to suffer from an irritating habit called "work" which takes us a massive amount of my time - although once in a while my bank balance receives a temporary boost!

That said, if you see anything which you think I've got wrong, or missed out, then drop me a line!

I tend to come to this forum at weekends more than weekdays.

Simon

[Insane alex]

Weren't there going to be a new line constructed?

[nick_taylor]

Work has started on the East London Line which is 4 extensions.




Work on ventilation shafts has begun for Crossrail I do believe. An extension is nearly complete on th DLR linking London City Airport with another 2 extensions starting soon. And CTRL is over 2/3 complete (the HSR link to Paris from London). The Heathrow Express and Piccadilly lines are being extended to the new Heathrow Terminal 5. I think the Metropolitan extension to Watford will begin by the end of the year.

[hkskyline]

More :

[Justme]

@ spsmiler, what an amazing contrabution to this thread. Thanks for your excellent photographs and summarys! I hope you hang around this forum for a while to continue posting such brilliant details about London railways!

just one question, did I understand right that in Kew Gardens station the North London line trains arrive at the same platform of the tube trains?

[UptownGuy]

I think that London and NY's subways are quite similar.

[Falubaz]

yeaah for sure...
ARE U KIDDING???!!!

[UptownGuy]

Nope

[natethetransitfreak]

i think there's more similarity with HK's MTR than New York's. Those platform screen doors are just like the one's in HK. I believe the rolling stock from both systems are built by the same company, i think?

[VAN-TO]

The Island Line in HK is clearly modelled after the classic London tube.

[Tubeman]

Originally Posted by Justme

@ spsmiler, what an amazing contrabution to this thread. Thanks for your excellent photographs and summarys! I hope you hang around this forum for a while to continue posting such brilliant details about London railways!

just one question, did I understand right that in Kew Gardens station the North London line trains arrive at the same platform of the tube trains?

I'll field that one...

Yes they do, as they also do at Gunnersbury and the entire Bakerloo Line between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone... these sections are owned by Network Rail and London Underground merely has running powers over them, with Silverlink Metro also operating services. Its not a major issue on the District Line Richmond Branch as the Underground Trains are "Surface" Stock (D78) so the platform heights are ok for both the Underground and "Overground" trains, but on the Bakerloo Line there are "Overground" trains and tiny Tube trains stopping at the same platforms.

Incidentally, although now owned by LUL the District Line between East Putney and Wimbledon is still used by Mainline SWT stock moves on a daily basis, and occasionally for passenger services during Engineering Works.

Kew Gardens... same size... No problem!



Northern end of Bakerloo Line... big size difference!