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Old August 22nd, 2009, 02:56 PM   #801
mtj73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.haynes View Post
Possible Future Tube Map:

I drew this up any thoughts ...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=3727
Nicely done. Not so long a go I drew the crossrail line with a ball point pen on a standard tube map, have to say yours looks better:=).

One thing I would done different if I knew how to it would be to connect the crossrail stations where they interchange with existing lines.

I noticed you got Goblin extended to Dagenham dock, is that a real proposal? I know the DLR proposal to DD has been scrapped. Not heard anything about a South east line or DLR to West Ham, is that a bit of artistic license?
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 02:11 AM   #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtj73 View Post
Nicely done. Not so long a go I drew the crossrail line with a ball point pen on a standard tube map, have to say yours looks better:=).

One thing I would done different if I knew how to it would be to connect the crossrail stations where they interchange with existing lines.

I noticed you got Goblin extended to Dagenham dock, is that a real proposal? I know the DLR proposal to DD has been scrapped. Not heard anything about a South east line or DLR to West Ham, is that a bit of artistic license?
this map is a mix of fact and fiction really ...

yeah i need to tweek the crossrail connections your right ...

the dlr development projects are going ahead arnt they looks like it from the tfl website ...

Dagenham Dock Extension
Stratford International Extension

There was a feasability study on the DLR extension to Catford aswell so i included that ...

Ive also extended the northern to clapham junction via battersea and split it into two lines - Northern & Hamptead

Also being a south east londoner i threw in a new line "South East", i have used google aerial maps to look for a possible route that aligns with roads for possible construction, and extended the Jubilee and the bakerloo lines south easterly

iv also upgraded the circle line to hammersmith which is happening later this year i think

and iv swapped over the district and piccadility lines in the west north of action town

did i miss anything?
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 12:12 PM   #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris.haynes View Post

did i miss anything?
Thameslink and Crossrail 2 if you're interested in adding them?
Also, i think the DLR into Victoria is the only non-45 degree curve... not sure if you want to change that.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 01:47 PM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
Thameslink and Crossrail 2 if you're interested in adding them?
Also, i think the DLR into Victoria is the only non-45 degree curve... not sure if you want to change that.
image hosted on flickr


its getting a little messy now ...

iv made a new icon for crossrail stations so its easier to see where there are .., kinda crude bit its a w.i.p

thameslink will be tricky to fit in , may need to redraw some lines to free up space ...
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 02:19 PM   #805
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When it all started

I feel like piping up with a quick question - partly inspired by the fact that I live in Paris, which also has a large, old underground railway system.

Let me start by saying that I sympathise with Londoners and others on this thread who get a bit tired of tirades to the tune that "the underground is creaky and smelly". I've had similar discussions about the Paris Metro with colleagues previously based in East Asia who go out of their way to tell me that the underground of Singapore, Taipei, Seoul, whereever is soooOOO much better. Yeah, sure. They're built two generations later, by people who used heavy engineering machines and power tools, as opposed to the shovels and pickaxes that gave us the Metro. Inevitably, plenty of things look crummy by the standards of modern comforts of the 21st century (and don't even get me started on the issue of handicap access....). That said...

...I've been wondering about one thing. It occurs to me that the Metro and the Underground shares two problems: (1) heat; and (2) stale air. In the shallow cut-and-cover tunnels (and hotter summers) of Paris (1) is more important than (2). In my experience with the Underground, (2) is more important than (1). Now, in the days of Queen Victoria and La Troisieme Republique no one had heard of air conditioning, but they HAD heard of fresh air. Nevertheless, in Paris (and in London as far as I know) the metro lines run between stations without one single air shaft. Such little fresh air as enters the system does so via the stations. Even in year 1900 it must have been clear to people that this could be a source of serious inconvenience.

I've asked around among French metro lovers if anyone can tell me why our ancestors didn't simply add a shaft here and there (admittedly this would be cheaper and easier in Paris than in London), but nobody seems to know. Does anybody on this forum have sufficient historical knowledge to answer the question for London. My theory would be that it is mainly because the usage was much more sparse in the old days, plus perhaps that the weather was colder in those days.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 06:53 PM   #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
I feel like piping up with a quick question - partly inspired by the fact that I live in Paris, which also has a large, old underground railway system.

Let me start by saying that I sympathise with Londoners and others on this thread who get a bit tired of tirades to the tune that "the underground is creaky and smelly". I've had similar discussions about the Paris Metro with colleagues previously based in East Asia who go out of their way to tell me that the underground of Singapore, Taipei, Seoul, whereever is soooOOO much better. Yeah, sure. They're built two generations later, by people who used heavy engineering machines and power tools, as opposed to the shovels and pickaxes that gave us the Metro. Inevitably, plenty of things look crummy by the standards of modern comforts of the 21st century (and don't even get me started on the issue of handicap access....).
I so totally hear you..."Oh London Underground is just smelling and old" Mostly said by people who haven't even been to the UK! Its very big and very old...but one of the best in the world (Yes I am aware that is don't run 24/7)...
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Old August 24th, 2009, 02:42 AM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Now, in the days of Queen Victoria and La Troisieme Republique no one had heard of air conditioning, but they HAD heard of fresh air. Nevertheless, in Paris (and in London as far as I know) the metro lines run between stations without one single air shaft. Such little fresh air as enters the system does so via the stations. Even in year 1900 it must have been clear to people that this could be a source of serious inconvenience.

It was cooler down there then. The tunnels have warmed continuously since then as the heat cannot escape. See: http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2008...n-underground/
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Old August 24th, 2009, 05:02 AM   #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I so totally hear you..."Oh London Underground is just smelling and old" Mostly said by people who haven't even been to the UK! Its very big and very old...but one of the best in the world (Yes I am aware that is don't run 24/7)...
I've got quite a bit of experience with the Underground, and while it's got its foibles, I certainly agree with you that it's one of the best. I never noticed any bad smells when I used it, and while the age is an issue, I feel that it gives the Tube a character that you don't find on newer metro systems. For example, the Metro here in Shanghai (to be the world's largest by next year) may be convenient, extensive, cheap, and air conditioned (absolutely essential in Shanghai summers!), but owing to its young age (the oldest sections of line 1 are only 15 years old) it lacks a certain character. I wouldn't quite go and say it's soulless, but it certainly lacks the soul of an old system like the Underground.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #809
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When I'm stuck in an overcrowded and claustrophobic Underground train "due to a signal failure" with a temperature of over 30 C, "character" and "soul" of the system is among the last things I think about.

To me speedy and smooth travel (with some fresh air, of course) is all I care about. As, I guess, so do 99.99% of other commuters using any system in the world on a daily basis.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 01:41 PM   #810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
It was cooler down there then. The tunnels have warmed continuously since then as the heat cannot escape. See: http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2008...n-underground/
Many thanks for the link. Yeah, it brings back the memory of something I read, in a non-specialist article in a normal Parisian newspaper, years ago: the journalist reviewed some of the articles about the opening of metro line 1 100 years earlier and he was astounded to read his long-dead colleague exalt over the fact that "...and moreover, this new mode of transport offers agreeably ambient temperatures to escape from the summer heat." This was not how 21st century Parisians would describe the metro. But it probably points to the same think that your article says: initially there was a mass of damp, cool soil around the stations. Eventually it got dried out and warmed up.

I have to admire the simple solution that my compatriotes in Copenhagen chose: keep each metro station open upwards, all the way up to surface level. Like that, every station acts as a cooling tower. All you need to do is to have a couple of big fans in the ceiling. However, this solution couldn't be replicated in Paris and London - even if we started from scratch. The cities are much more compact than "tiny" Copenhagen; there's no space for such luxuries.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 09:44 AM   #811
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Map reveals London Tube's hottest lines
24 August 2009

LONDON (AP) - A map of the warmest spots of London's subway system was released Monday, revealing what commuters already know: It can get hot on the Tube.

The world's oldest subway system is not air conditioned, and as London temperatures reach 30 Celsius (86 Fahrenheit) this summer, commuters crammed into cars often gasp for air each time the doors open to let even more passengers on board.

The new heat map -- published Monday by The Times of London but not yet officially made public -- shows measures for the temperatures in each of the 11 Tube line's tunnels can get as hot as 30 C (86 F). That is also the maximum temperature for transporting cattle to slaughter houses, according to the U.K.'s Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Even the cooler lines, though, rarely drop below 26 C (79 F) during the Tube's busiest times. And while the map measures tunnel temperatures, it can often seem hotter in the train cars. Transport for London officials say they don't actually check the temperatures in the cars -- so it is really anyone's guess.

"It feels like a sauna down there," said 69-year-old retiree Angela Harding from north London who travels on the Northern Line.

The map, set against a black background, lays out each of the Tube tunnel's maximum temperatures by replacing the regular map shades with a color-coded temperature guide going from soft green to yellow-orange and then to red.

The Tube's narrow tunnels, built long-before air conditioning was invented, are only large enough to fit trains.

Transport for London said the map has long been used by engineers responsible for keeping the London Underground bearable for commuters -- the so-called Cooling the Tube team. Over the next five years the team plans to double the capacity of fans at all of the main ventilation shafts on the Victoria Line in an effort to cool it down.

The map offered little consolation, however, to overheated commuters climbing down a spiral staircase of more than 90 steps Monday to reach the platforms of the Northern Line's Camden station -- more than 200 feet (about 60 meters) below ground.

"I doubt we'll be treated to the luxury of air conditioning anytime soon," said Deepika Sharma, a 24-year-old medical student from Southall in west London.

The London Underground's hot weather tips to commuters -- interspersed with regular announcements on people fainting -- include carrying a bottle of water at all times and not boarding the trains if they feel unwell.

London Mayor Boris Johnson has said the first air-conditioned trains should be running next year on the network's Metropolitan Line. By 2015, air conditioning is expected on four lines, or less than half of the system.

In the meantime, millions of Londoners will have to struggle through the heat, with little alternative to the far-reaching transport network.

"As long as it gets me to work on time, I'm not bothered about the heat," said 31-year-old Alison Lindsey who teaches at a school in east London one hour from her home.
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Old September 4th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #812
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There is a lot of proposals to add a more lines to the underground network. Whether it's a complete new Chelsea & Hackney line or the split of the Northern line.

Now I wonder whether there are any shades of colour left for new underground lines. By now each line has its individual colour. But it seems to me that there isn't much left. Not under the premise that the colours are distinguishable. What do you think?
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Old September 5th, 2009, 01:04 AM   #813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
There is a lot of proposals to add a more lines to the underground network. Whether it's a complete new Chelsea & Hackney line or the split of the Northern line.

Now I wonder whether there are any shades of colour left for new underground lines. By now each line has its individual colour. But it seems to me that there isn't much left. Not under the premise that the colours are distinguishable. What do you think?
I think there are more important issues in LU than the choice of colors... how to make it work at least reasonably well, for example.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 02:44 AM   #814
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New interchanges for London

Here you can suggest your favourite candidates for new interchange stations in London. Particularly London needs some new interchanges for the London Overground for it to be more viable. I'm going to start with Acton, where the NLL passes over the central line about 150m shy of North Acton tube station. Now, I'm sure folks could walk that far if a walkway were provided, but in my ideal scenario we'd rebuild the central line platforms down the track and build new Overground platforms on a viaduct across it. Like so:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?oe=...25c58fe24510cc
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Old January 25th, 2010, 04:16 AM   #815
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I'd also like a NR station there that in the future could be used by Crossrail. Or alternatively, Crossrail sent via Willesden Junction and Willesden Junction gets platforms on the WCML.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 01:52 AM   #816
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LONDON | The London Underground






THE LONDON UNDERGROUND




MAP




FACTS


Locale :Greater London, Chiltern, Epping Forest, Three Rivers and Watford

Transit type :Rapid transit

Number of lines :11

Number of stations :270 served (260 owned)

Daily ridership :2.95 million-3.4 million (Approximate)




Wikipedia description:


The London Underground is a rapid transit system serving a large part of Greater London and neighbouring areas of Essex, Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire in the UK. The first section opened in 1863, and was the first underground railway system in the world, and, starting in 1890, it was also the first to operate electric trains. Despite the name, about 55% of the network is above ground. It is usually referred to officially as 'the Underground' and colloquially as the Tube, although the latter term originally applied only to the deep-level bored lines, to distinguish them from the sub-surface "cut and cover" lines that were built first. More recently this distinction has been lost and the whole system is now referred to as 'the Tube', even in recent years by its operator in official publicity.

The earlier lines of the present London Underground network were built by various private companies. Apart from the main line railways, they became part of an integrated transport system in 1933 when the London Passenger Transport Board (LPTB) or London Transport was created. The underground network became a single entity in 1985, when the UK government created London Underground Limited (LUL). Since 2003 LUL has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London (TfL), the statutory corporation responsible for most aspects of the transport system in Greater London, which is run by a board and a commissioner appointed by the Mayor of London.

The Underground has 270 stations and about 400 km (250 miles) of track, making it the one of the longest metro system in the world by route length. It also has one of the highest number of stations. In 2007, more than one billion passenger journeys were recorded, making it the busiest metro system in Europe after Paris and Moscow.

The tube map, with its schematic non-geographical layout and colour-coded lines, is considered a design classic, and many other transport maps worldwide have been influenced by it.


LINES


BAKERLOO LINE (1906)

CENTRAL LINE (1900)

CIRCLE LINE (1884)

DISTRICT LINE (1868)

HAMMERSMITH AND CITY LINE (1988)

JUBILEE LINE (1979)

METROPOLITAN LINE (1863)

NORTHERN LINE (1890)

PICCADILLY LINE (1906)

VICTORIA LINE (1968)

WATERLOO AND CITY LINE (1898)




Some Pictures
All from Trainweb-Tubeprune


STATIONS















TRAINS

THESE AREN'T ALL THE TYPES OF TRAINS














If you need anymore information about The London Underground, I definetly recommend this website:
http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/index.htm


Official Website: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/modalpages/2625.aspx[/CENTER]

Last edited by dmarney; January 31st, 2010 at 12:58 PM.
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Old January 31st, 2010, 02:03 AM   #817
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It's probably bet to also mention the DLR and the Overground on here, if you're doing a thread on the London Underground. They are on the map you posted after all!
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Old January 31st, 2010, 02:07 AM   #818
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Ah yeh, but i'll have to do that tomorrow, i need sleep!
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Old January 31st, 2010, 08:07 AM   #819
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There are already two threads on the London Underground itself... And numerous threads about other aspects of it. Do we really need another one and will you even update this one?
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Old January 31st, 2010, 11:10 AM   #820
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I didn't see any close to the front, and I will update it/add to it often. I thought all the old threads were being deleted to de-clutter the forum, so i made this one so that a new london could stay on the first page
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