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Old June 23rd, 2010, 08:33 PM   #1161
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So you don't at all agree with that the Tories only want the tube to become driverless to fulfil their ideological agenda to diminish union power?
I couldn't give a monkeys what their motives are.

My interest would be in terms of saving huge amounts of staffing costs long-term, which could either equate to cheaper travel or money for investment / expansion of the network. I'll make no bones about it; being a 'driver' on a deep-level ATO line is boring, mind numbing and soul destroying. I think it's bordering on the inhumane that people have to sit on the front of Victoria Line trains day in, day out. That's why it's well paid.

They're fools if they think this would diminish union power anyway... The remote operators could just as easily go on strike.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 02:21 AM   #1162
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Why not to try this on a few less-busy lines and see what happens?

Although I guess the human culture factor is an important factor as well. I was amazed by the "system" that works in Honk Kong's MTR. During the peak hours people simply wait near where the train doors are about to open and board the train if possible. Noone tries to get in "at any cost" but rather waits for the next train (which will come in 1 minute anyway, typically without any delays). Of course, that requires an extra staff at the station who would be in charge of moderating and maintaining the passengers in case some of them go a little over the top. That, however, is only necessary during the peak hours and can be done by unqualified staff (see what I mean: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/254/4...d698c739_o.jpg the girl is the staff who is only responsible for "guiding" the passengers. Pretty much all of the time she's just standing there and doing nothing since all passengers are well aware of how they must behave. She's probably working just a few hours a day).
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Old June 24th, 2010, 03:07 AM   #1163
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It's not that strange. Once you've been caught by the doors as you try to get onto the train you learn pretty quickly not to do it again, especially when there's a computer controlling the train and no-one's going to open the doors again for you. If Parisians can understand that, then so can Londoners
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Old June 24th, 2010, 04:11 AM   #1164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I couldn't give a monkeys what their motives are.

My interest would be in terms of saving huge amounts of staffing costs long-term, which could either equate to cheaper travel or money for investment / expansion of the network. I'll make no bones about it; being a 'driver' on a deep-level ATO line is boring, mind numbing and soul destroying. I think it's bordering on the inhumane that people have to sit on the front of Victoria Line trains day in, day out. That's why it's well paid.

They're fools if they think this would diminish union power anyway... The remote operators could just as easily go on strike.
Where have the Tories said they planned remote operation?

And you've missed my point. My original post was comparing LU with modern metro systems, with the assumption that if LU were to become driverless, it would be a bog-standard system like on the DLR. This "remote operation" malarky is something i've never personally heard of. And i'm also interested in why you decided to focus solely on my arguments when I was not the only one to voice concerns about driverless operation, a bone to pick, perhaps?

Last edited by iampuking; June 24th, 2010 at 04:17 AM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 03:30 PM   #1165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoiz_ View Post
It's not that strange. Once you've been caught by the doors as you try to get onto the train you learn pretty quickly not to do it again, especially when there's a computer controlling the train and no-one's going to open the doors again for you. If Parisians can understand that, then so can Londoners
And how long will it take to learn for millions on their own faults? People never learn on faults of other people.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #1166
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Where have the Tories said they planned remote operation?

And you've missed my point. My original post was comparing LU with modern metro systems, with the assumption that if LU were to become driverless, it would be a bog-standard system like on the DLR. This "remote operation" malarky is something i've never personally heard of. And i'm also interested in why you decided to focus solely on my arguments when I was not the only one to voice concerns about driverless operation, a bone to pick, perhaps?
Jesus not again...
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Old June 25th, 2010, 04:30 AM   #1167
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Maybe if you adopted a less rude tone then it wouldn't happen so often.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #1168
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Funny that it only seems to be you...
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Old June 25th, 2010, 11:36 PM   #1169
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Tubey is faultless in his knowledge. Bow down before him.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #1170
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Guys, I witnessed one rather bizarre sighting. I use Waterloo and City line regularly and a few days ago one of the trains approaching me was substantially vandalized by a graffiti painting. I just wonder how on earth this could happen since all W&C infrastructure seems to be underground and there is no open access to the line or depot. How can this happen?

Anyway, I just don't understand what's happening it those people's heads. Why on earth would anyone do something so senseless and harmful which costs us all money to fix?
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Old June 26th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #1171
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Tubey is faultless in his knowledge. Bow down before him.
+1
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Old June 26th, 2010, 07:58 PM   #1172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Guys, I witnessed one rather bizarre sighting. I use Waterloo and City line regularly and a few days ago one of the trains approaching me was substantially vandalized by a graffiti painting. I just wonder how on earth this could happen since all W&C infrastructure seems to be underground and there is no open access to the line or depot. How can this happen?

Anyway, I just don't understand what's happening it those people's heads. Why on earth would anyone do something so senseless and harmful which costs us all money to fix?
They are seeking attention and want you to wonder how they did it.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 05:09 AM   #1173
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Tubey is faultless in his knowledge. Bow down before him.
I beg to differ. Numerous times he's spoken rubbish on his thread and i've been too polite to call him out on it. This politeness is something he obviously lacks...
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Old June 27th, 2010, 10:03 AM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Guys, I witnessed one rather bizarre sighting. I use Waterloo and City line regularly and a few days ago one of the trains approaching me was substantially vandalized by a graffiti painting. I just wonder how on earth this could happen since all W&C infrastructure seems to be underground and there is no open access to the line or depot. How can this happen?

Anyway, I just don't understand what's happening it those people's heads. Why on earth would anyone do something so senseless and harmful which costs us all money to fix?
A small section of the depot at Waterloo is open-air... if you look down the tunnel toward the depot from the platform, you can see the chinks of daylight.

I've picked out the shed below, there is a track in the open but it's hidden by shadow:

[IMG]http://i46.************/23msncp.jpg[/IMG]

There's bound to be access ladders down from Spur Road which could be used to gain access... The alternative is they just walked off the end of the platform after the last train one evening (bear in mind this is relatively early), or maybe just pushed a gate open separating the W&C from the rest of Waterloo LU station on a Sunday (when the W&C is closed).

I guess it's quite an attractive target, as the tiny depot at Waterloo wouldn't have any dedicated equipment or materials for removing graffiti as it's hardly common on that line, and the only way in or out for the trains is a car at a time by crane. They would have to get the chemicals sent from another depot.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 10:17 AM   #1175
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I beg to differ. Numerous times he's spoken rubbish on his thread and i've been too polite to call him out on it. This politeness is something he obviously lacks...
I don't claim to know everything about everything, sometimes I have been wrong and have happily admitted this, other times I've made educated guesses in the absence of information, but the vast majority of my responses are factually correct.

Considering the amount of effort I put into my responses, your comment above is plain rude... with the added irony of claiming some sort of politeness moral high ground at the same time.

You are perpetually and pedantically spoiling for a fight, and not just with me, but with several forumers. It's very tiresome.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 11:18 PM   #1176
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No, all i've done is engage in what a forum is about, discussion. All you do is just roll your eyes when I disagree with you and then presumptuously decide the exchange is over. You also write massive essays and then claim i'm "starting arguments" when I don't agree with every single word of it. Who are you to draw the line at when a discussion turns into an argument?

I agree that you're probably right about a lot of things but sometimes you're wrong, therefore my last response wasn't even to you, it was to a selection of your cronies that insisted I should "bow down" to your "fautless knowledge".

And btw, I spend a good time on my posts too. Look at the start of this thread if you don't agree.
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Old June 28th, 2010, 10:53 PM   #1177
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Anyway, sorry if we've (not I've) created a sour atmosphere. Here's a video of the 09TS at Green Park to lighten the mood:

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Old June 28th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #1178
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Will the LU eventually have walk-through carriages?
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Old June 28th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #1179
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Anyway, sorry if I've created a sour atmosphere.
Corrected... And apology accepted
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Old June 28th, 2010, 11:52 PM   #1180
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Will the LU eventually have walk-through carriages?
All subsurface stock will be when the S Stock is universal (Metropolitan, Circle, H&C and District Lines), S Stocks are undergoing testing on the Metropolitan Line currently and will enter passenger service in a few months.

Not happening any time soon with Tube stock however, as the 2009 Stock is not walk-through.
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