Miami-Dade cannot afford two-thirds of Metrorail projects promised to voters

[dave8721]

Here is why it is so hard to design mass transit here that actually reduces traffic, people travel all over the place for work (Blue Lagoon, Coral Gables, Doral, ..etc) Miami is officially has the most decentralized office market in the country. And we build more offices in the Doral area every day. The HUGE Beacon Lakes office development just opened north of Dolphin Mall. Miami-Dade County, who is the one pushing metrorail usage, is actually one of the worst offenders with office complexes all over west Miami-Dade (MDPD HQ in Doral, IT in Kendall, MDFD in Doral...)

http://www.floridacdc.org/articles/030407-1.htm

South Florida's office sprawl is nation's worst, study shows
By Frank Norton

South Florida is suffering from the nation's worst case of office-development sprawl, according to a new study by the Brookings Institution in Washington.

As of 1999, 13% of metropolitan South Florida's total office space was in one downtown area - in this case Miami's. According to the report, that's the lowest percentage of office clustering in the nation's metropolitan areas.

In contrast to South Florida, downtowns in Chicago and New York offer 57% and 54% of the area's metro office space, while Boston and San Francisco had 37% and 34%. The US median showed 30% of office space was based in the regions' central business district, according to the report which analyzed data gathered from 1987 to 2002 in 13 large US markets.

The figures are not surprising, land-use experts say, since nearly all office growth in Miami-Dade County during the past 15 years has occurred outside of downtown Miami, and Broward and Palm Beach counties are experiencing similar decentralizations.

"Like a lot of Sunbelt cities, you just never had those big central downtowns or large edge cities with mixed uses, said Robert E. Lang, author of the report released last week, "Beyond Edge City: Office Sprawl in South Florida."

"It's not that far off from L.A., where you have an almost uniform urbanization far out from the city in the region's inland empire," said Mr. Lang, also director of the Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech.

"Every time you put a place of employment somewhere, it generates trips from work to home and home to work, which puts the biggest demands on the transportation system, said Clark Turner," a transportation planner for the City of Miami.

Mr. Lang said the business-decentralization phenomenon in South Florida is a serious urban challenge. Office sprawl ties directly to general urban sprawl, which negatively affects the environment, public and private transportation, public costs, and fairness in the distribution of public services, he said last week in a telephone interview.

Between 1987 and 2002, Miami-Dade's non-downtown growth in office space jumped 60%, or 30 million square feet, according to the study.

The report, paid for by the Brookings Institution, a public policy think tank, includes analyses of office-development data from real estate and consulting firms, real estate and building associations and office guide publishers.

The City of Miami's Coral Way and Coconut Grove markets, which have lost office space since 1997, are local examples of the office decentralization trend. During the same time period, the Kendall and South Dade office areas have boomed, according to the study's data from real estate firm Cushman and Wakefield.

Sprawling metro areas provide little prospect for integrating people and businesses into bus and light rail transit systems, Mr. Lang said, especially in Miami-Dade, where the county rail system consists of one line.

The Waterford at Blue Lagoon office park near Miami International underscores some other challenges posed by decentralization. The 250-acre park is home to 14 office buildings totaling 2.2 million square feet of office space that is not accessible by the county's Metrorail line.

Most office parks in South Florida are accessible only by car, Mr. Lang said, as opposed to those in Washington, DC, and some other metropolitan areas, which tend to cluster around mass transit stops.

In a 2000 study by the Washington-based Surface Transportation Policy Project, South Florida ranked fourth in the nation among regions with the largest percentage (19%) of household incomes spent on transportation.

According to Carey "Lee" Rawlinson, Miami-Dade County planning director, smart growth should involve dense and mixed-use development along existing or planned transit hubs.

"You've got to make use of the investments in infrastructure that have already been made he said," pointing to a long-range, public-private effort to build Downtown Kendall, a mixed-used urban center along the Metrorail commuter line in the county's Dadeland area.

That area's first mixed-use developments are under way, although build-out could take 30 years.

As for the balance between the distribution of public costs and services, experts say office sprawl is destabilizing, since entire regions must often subsidize the creation of edgeless city infrastructure and road-building projects that underpin sprawl.

"The reason you have terrible traffic is because everybody is going in every direction every morning," Mr. Lang said, emphasizing how most of South Florida developed for use of the automobile rather than neighborhood centers where people work and live.

"On your 40-mile commute every morning somebody who lives where you work will drive right past you because you're going to their edgeless city while they're going to yours."
Details: The 12-page study can be downloaded at www.brookings.edu/urban.

[The Mad Hatter!!]

well then maybe we should look to only hire people who live within a 20 mile radius to there office.j/p

lets move all those offices to cdb,

drivin around in miami is hilarious on biscayne and like 40st theres like a mini skyline with like 5 buildings although downtown is like 20 mins away.on 36st theres like 10 building over 10stories, buildings in miami pop up everywhere.

maybe we should take pics of highrises in the wierdest places.

[Toucano]

The PTP was never intended to fully fund all transportation projects in Miami. In 2004 (I believe) president bush suspened all funding for mass transportation. Yet today we contine to blow billions in on creating the new infrastructure in another country (Iraq) and once again the American people are being screwed. Its not entirely the fault of the screwy Miami Politicians but blame should be placed equally across all branches of our government for dropping the ball on this one.

[nimbyhater]

yet again... its all bush's fault, u no ive heard people blame the weather on bush, and were totally honest about it... any problem in america, its bushs fault

the plan was always understood that not all funding would come from the county if u lukd into it, although the county didnt exactly push the fact, so the idea came across that the entire thing would b totally funded with this half penny, and the county im sure was not very pissed that that idea was out there, and now they got the perfect scapegoat to not get this done

also since it would take years to even get the plans out to the lines, they passed other things like the 200 million to rehabilitate the trains, and the money to provide transportation to the handicapped, to apease the citizens and assure them that the money actually is somewhere, and little things like that are wat is killin an already underfuned project

[VansTripp]

Originally Posted by nimbyhater

ur a fukin moron blink... i understand that alotta people dont luv bush as our president... but ur tellin me that gas prices in california are solely his fault as our ur cities budget problems... as much as i want every person in america to be able to give up their car, i would rather have more crucial things like the security of our nation fully funded first... i guess thats just me tho

aite, now lets have the liberals come out and bash me... i suspect uptown will b first

p.s god help the us if hillary is every president... it wont ever hapn in 2008 neways, nation wont vote a woman president in... i assure u... as much as i hate to say it lots of ignorant retards that just wont let it hapn... as for me, i could care less if shes a woman, or black, or an alien for that matter... i just dont want that liberal bitch drivin our country to hell

No way, I'm not fucking moron so it's you fucking moron too. Don't insult me about topic. Bush forced CA gas price went higher and higher.

It can't be give up their car cuz you must have car around of Greater LA, San Diego, Frenso, San Jose and even San Francisco. Metrolink and BART are sooo expensive if you ride to work everyday. MTA in Los Angeles doesn't get enough line so only have 4 line. That no fun to wasting your money.

NYC, Chicago, Tokyo, Hong Kong, London and Mexico City have biggest subway system for less cost. Honestly, I felt sorry for Miami cuz cannot afford metrorail extansion so I'm not happy with Bush.

I believe, Miami have better economy in around 1980s.

PS. I'm not insulting to Miami. nimbyhater, Stop being rude to me.

[nimbyhater]

sry blink, agree to disagree, its all good, cant we all just get along... lol, i was kinda rude, sry, dont think all people in miami r as rude as i was, we gotta work against that new york of the south stereotype, lol

i wasnt around for much of the eighties, and when i was, i wasnt much more than an infant, but its my understanding that the 80's were a rough time in miami, economically as well as crime and such... can any old farts elaborate on the miami economy of the 80's (county couldnt have been that bad, metro rail came online in 1980 no? course that was from the decade of progress bond)

[VansTripp]

Originally Posted by nimbyhater

sry blink, agree to disagree, its all good, cant we all just get along... lol, i was kinda rude, sry, dont think all people in miami r as rude as i was, we gotta work against that new york of the south stereotype, lol

i wasnt around for much of the eighties, and when i was, i wasnt much more than an infant, but its my understanding that the 80's were a rough time in miami, economically as well as crime and such... can any old farts elaborate on the miami economy of the 80's (county couldnt have been that bad, metro rail came online in 1980 no? course that was from the decade of progress bond)

Thanks man. I'm sorry for rude to you.

[The Mad Hatter!!]

well im not an old fart but that was one of the larger booms in miami history just to name a few we got wachovia,boa,brickell bay, and so on.

[ChuckScraperMiami#1]

EASY MEN , lol. Its a Beautiful Sunshine Day in Florida, Just Think the Interest Rates Are Still Holding at 5.57 % at www.interest.com BUY a Condo Now in FLORIDA, The SUNSHINE STATE, We ARE So " FRIENDLEY " Here !!!, lol.

[jzquince69]

They say gas prices went up b/c a tanker sunk off the Mississippi. I say... it would be too rude. I like Bush (not to digress about politics) but it is his fault about gas prices. Iraq is just a piece of a puzzle the administration is working on. WMD's was the reason. they had a scapegoat; they got what they wanted; and he kept the fighting ongoing throughout the election to secure more votes- as a "wartime pres." We, as taxpayers, pay the price. Thank his brother who is screwing Miami of all places by undoing the High Speed Rail amendment.

[The Mad Hatter!!]

finally some bush supporter has agreed with me,whoa we should right this down


jan 9 2005 bush supporters finally says the bush brothers are retards

[Dale]

jz, I never took you for a conspiracy theorist.

[jzquince69]

I'm not really. But every decision a politician makes is about the dollar and politics. Big oil controls the world. that's why we've been in a status quo in transportation for the last 40 years, when we should have already been in an alternate-fuels mode with ground transportation. Its not just Bush. Its the system. Everything happens for a reason. Its like the Merovingian says from Matrix Reloaded, "its cause and effect..."

Go to the MIA thread that was just posted. Check out those photos that were posted of the South Terminal. When that's done, and the MIC is done with the tram, I'm telling you, that terminal will be neck and neck with the world's best.

[Roark]

Oh yeah...Jeb has "screwed up" Miami. I remember looking at all the cranes in Miami in 1992, it was really easy to count them. Something like....ZERO! Feel free to call the gov. names, it's your right to have an opinion. I believe (and experience) a better Miami than it was in the 90's, and the better news is that Miami is getting even better. It's a great time to be alive in Miami.

[aperez49]

If they do the 27th Ave Line, they should definately make a kink in the line and make a nice station between the OB and the new Marlins Stadium (if it happens). I'm sure they could incorporate a beautiful station in the design of the new Stadium and the OB Renovations. Again this is if people on both sides of this stadium issue just get it done already..

Nevermind....just saw that the East-West link has plans for hitting the OB already. Also, I was thinking of the Douglas (37th Ave) line that they showed there, not the 27th ave for northern Dade.

[The Mad Hatter!!]

a line to the ob,forget it.

[VansTripp]

uptown-midtown only got on my nervous about thread, he shows no polite in my thread, though. I will ignore him and un-interesting his post too. He want close thread for stupid reason. The End.

I got over now, I hope Miami will have information about metrorail extansion project next decade. Miami must check with budget that can afford again so be ready in next decade.

[nimbyhater]

the ob def needs a line, the traffic there after games is crazy, and then wit the marlins stadium, itll b crazy... u no watll b great, definetly a few times a year theyrll b a game at both stadiums at once, wont that b something...

plus the neighborhood around is somewat dense (compared to the rest of miami anyways) and would benefit and actually use a station in that are, if the lines gonna go through, its just stupid not to build a station

[jzquince69]

Jeb's got nothing to do with an upward swing in the Miami economy and construction boom. Miami's getting $$ for the MIC. One of the major components of the MIC is a High Speed Rail station. Jeb's trying to kill it. Now, the MIC, instead of having statewide implications for rail will only have local implications.

[Miami High Rise]

Originally Posted by dave8721

Here is why it is so hard to design mass transit here that actually reduces traffic, people travel all over the place for work (Blue Lagoon, Coral Gables, Doral, ..etc) Miami is officially has the most decentralized office market in the country. And we build more offices in the Doral area every day. The HUGE Beacon Lakes office development just opened north of Dolphin Mall. Miami-Dade County, who is the one pushing metrorail usage, is actually one of the worst offenders with office complexes all over west Miami-Dade (MDPD HQ in Doral, IT in Kendall, MDFD in Doral...)

http://www.floridacdc.org/articles/030407-1.htm

South Florida's office sprawl is nation's worst, study shows
By Frank Norton

South Florida is suffering from the nation's worst case of office-development sprawl, according to a new study by the Brookings Institution in Washington.

As of 1999, 13% of metropolitan South Florida's total office space was in one downtown area - in this case Miami's. According to the report, that's the lowest percentage of office clustering in the nation's metropolitan areas.

In contrast to South Florida, downtowns in Chicago and New York offer 57% and 54% of the area's metro office space, while Boston and San Francisco had 37% and 34%. The US median showed 30% of office space was based in the regions' central business district, according to the report which analyzed data gathered from 1987 to 2002 in 13 large US markets.

The figures are not surprising, land-use experts say, since nearly all office growth in Miami-Dade County during the past 15 years has occurred outside of downtown Miami, and Broward and Palm Beach counties are experiencing similar decentralizations.

"Like a lot of Sunbelt cities, you just never had those big central downtowns or large edge cities with mixed uses, said Robert E. Lang, author of the report released last week, "Beyond Edge City: Office Sprawl in South Florida."

"It's not that far off from L.A., where you have an almost uniform urbanization far out from the city in the region's inland empire," said Mr. Lang, also director of the Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech.

"Every time you put a place of employment somewhere, it generates trips from work to home and home to work, which puts the biggest demands on the transportation system, said Clark Turner," a transportation planner for the City of Miami.

Mr. Lang said the business-decentralization phenomenon in South Florida is a serious urban challenge. Office sprawl ties directly to general urban sprawl, which negatively affects the environment, public and private transportation, public costs, and fairness in the distribution of public services, he said last week in a telephone interview.

Between 1987 and 2002, Miami-Dade's non-downtown growth in office space jumped 60%, or 30 million square feet, according to the study.

The report, paid for by the Brookings Institution, a public policy think tank, includes analyses of office-development data from real estate and consulting firms, real estate and building associations and office guide publishers.

The City of Miami's Coral Way and Coconut Grove markets, which have lost office space since 1997, are local examples of the office decentralization trend. During the same time period, the Kendall and South Dade office areas have boomed, according to the study's data from real estate firm Cushman and Wakefield.

Sprawling metro areas provide little prospect for integrating people and businesses into bus and light rail transit systems, Mr. Lang said, especially in Miami-Dade, where the county rail system consists of one line.

The Waterford at Blue Lagoon office park near Miami International underscores some other challenges posed by decentralization. The 250-acre park is home to 14 office buildings totaling 2.2 million square feet of office space that is not accessible by the county's Metrorail line.

Most office parks in South Florida are accessible only by car, Mr. Lang said, as opposed to those in Washington, DC, and some other metropolitan areas, which tend to cluster around mass transit stops.

In a 2000 study by the Washington-based Surface Transportation Policy Project, South Florida ranked fourth in the nation among regions with the largest percentage (19%) of household incomes spent on transportation.

According to Carey "Lee" Rawlinson, Miami-Dade County planning director, smart growth should involve dense and mixed-use development along existing or planned transit hubs.

"You've got to make use of the investments in infrastructure that have already been made he said," pointing to a long-range, public-private effort to build Downtown Kendall, a mixed-used urban center along the Metrorail commuter line in the county's Dadeland area.

That area's first mixed-use developments are under way, although build-out could take 30 years.

As for the balance between the distribution of public costs and services, experts say office sprawl is destabilizing, since entire regions must often subsidize the creation of edgeless city infrastructure and road-building projects that underpin sprawl.

"The reason you have terrible traffic is because everybody is going in every direction every morning," Mr. Lang said, emphasizing how most of South Florida developed for use of the automobile rather than neighborhood centers where people work and live.

"On your 40-mile commute every morning somebody who lives where you work will drive right past you because you're going to their edgeless city while they're going to yours."
Details: The 12-page study can be downloaded at www.brookings.edu/urban.

This is a great article. I wonder what the stats are now. I doubt Tri-Rail would run two lines at once, and I think an East Coast Metrorail would be better, anyway, Tri-Rail is a "full size" train and is only practical for longer distance stops. Even Metrorail can't build up any speed between its one mile stops. Anyway, a Metrorail line even farther east of the FEC line seems like it would be great, why has no one proposed this? Because the entire east coast is so gentrified that the entire demographic has been ruled forever car dependent? If no incentives are provided for TOD then of course developers are going to build in nutty locations in east jesus such as the Lagoon business park by the airport. But even I was surprised to hear that the office sprawl is the worst in the nation here. And as far as ridiculous commutes, I know people that drive all the way from northwest Broward to downtown miami every day just so they can have a "normal" two story house with a yard.